tyler

ALL programs are self-driven programs. All any of them can give you are the tools to help you. AA is more structured than the others, but that is the biggest difference.

The primary begining "step" in most secular programs is "stop drinking/using". They then provide you with "tools",that, if you use them, will help you stay stopped. Only you, not any program, doctor, website, etc., can make the choice to stop. AA calls it "hitting rock bottom", when you are willing to do whatever you have to do to get and stay sober. The concept really does not have anything to do with actually hitting a "bottom".

I would say I hit my bottom sitting slumped in a wheel chair after having my stomach pumped in the ER on my way to a police escort over to the mental ward for an involuntary commitment. Didn't stop me from using another 5 years though. If YOU WANT IT ENOUGH, you will do it. You will find a way. If you don't you'll continue in your misery until you die, and yes, it will probably be too early.

BTW, for what it is worth, I am in no way an "AA person", but I will say I have learned a lot from the AA people here on this website and in their literature. I was also turned off by what I construed to be the "religious" nature of the program, and I allowed that to get in the way of using anything from the program to help myself. I don't work the steps (though in some way's I'd like to as I can see how it could really help make me a better person), I don't believe a "power greater than myself can restore me to sanity", I don't have a sponsor (though I have a numer of stout AA folks who's opinion I greatly respect and whom I have gone to for advice). There is lots of "help" out there, you just have to accept it and be willing to try some stuff, keep what works for you, and cast the rest aside. Keep an open mind, stop concentrating on what doesn't work, and try some stuff to find out what does. I know both you and Tibs have been to a bunch of rehabs and tons of meetings, but attendence doesn't get you anything, other than maybe some kind of certificate. You have to actually use some of the things you are taught, and if those dont' work, find some others and try them. The solution is not "out there" somewhere, it's inside you. Try to find it. Take care.

Kjell

Ok, without getting into any AA bashing please.

Why doesn't AA work for you?

You also mentioned you've been to many therapists. Why doesn't that work for you?

I guess what I'm asking is...what have you tried and why didn't it work? Complete honesty is important here.

Just thinking maybe we could use this as a jumping off point for what might work.

Dee74

If this thread is stressing people out I suggest they bow out of the discussion

Lets keep things civil and non personal...

thanks

D

tyler

Interesting. I went to massage therpy school, so I am familiar with Reiki. Never tried it, but had a similar experience with polarity therapy. It was one of the things that finally started me towards being more "open" and accepting in life in general. I gotta say though, when I first started those classes I would have bet $1000 against me having an experience like that, and would have considered it a sucker bet!! It was a truly amazing experience!! Take care.

coffeenut

I've not heard of Reiki....I'll google it! Thanks for the info.

shaun00

Without getting into heated debate there is alot of stuff in this thread... that is not AA..its what people blurt at meetings when they have nothing else to say...........i did it myself........i thought thats what you did......talk your self sober........sit on your hands.........dont drink even if yer backside does cart wheels.......blah blah blah.......

if you have decided not to attend AA then that is your decision......i hope you find something that works for you..

i tried the therapist route for years.........done wonders for all my other issues but ultimately i drank again...and again..
At the same time i got diagnosed for all types of weird and wonderful stuff.
it was great........no wonder i drink like i do..........thanks.

i was sat in AA few years ago and was approached by a guy.
he told me he had a solution to why i cant drink...cant stay sober.
Looking back i realize i was finally approached by someone THAT KNEW WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT.

He stated he had recovered.........he also stated that if i did meeting for a thousand days...guess what happens?.......NOTHING..
Apart from me getting drunk or blowing my head off......or filling my head with bs little catch phrases......that i could copy parrot fashion.

he introduced me to the 12 steps and the big book of alcoholics anonymous.
he told me ....there you will find a solution.

so after all that time id missed the elephant in the room....the solution for my chronic alcoholism....A WAY OUT.
After years of misery and abusing others..........i finally stopped drinking and recovered from my hopeless state...with rigorous work through the book.

Time and time again i see people thinking that aa the fellowship is the solution..
for me aa the fellowship is there for one thing.........to pass on the imformation that was given to me freely to someone that still suffers.

if your alcoholic?.......and you cant find a solution to your drinking.
i strongly suggest getting a sponsor that knows what there talking about.
that has recovered and has the ability to pass that vital imformation on to you.

Ribeye

The only thought I have on that question is, that I could not battle this addiction on my own and win.

I respect your desire to get sober outside of AA. (I felt the same way myself) and I wish you luck with that. Some people manage to do it.

However, it seems to me that you are demanding (or at least hoping for) the luxury of picking the solution you like.

I would suggest that the sooner you get that idea out of your head, the quicker you'll start to recover.

Put your likes/dislikes aside and focus on what works.

Peace.

Stereosteveo

p.25

"Almost none of us liked the self-searching, the leveling of our pride, the confession of shortcomings which the process requires for its successful consummation. But we saw that it really worked in others, and we had come to believe in the hopelessness and futility of life as we had been living it."

Have you rigorously, fearlessly, and thoroughly went through the prcoess? I didn't believe it would help me either until I ran out of options and tried it.

I remember my sponsor saying:
"Don't be selfish, do it even if you don't believe it, just so you can then help others through it"
"This deal aint for sissies"

See if this helps you understand what AA is:
http://www.xa-speakers.org/pafiledb....on=file&id=150

Best Wishes

All BB Quotes-1st. edition

bg1971

Despite what you have heard and will hear in AA, I believe people do graduate from the program. I left AA at around 8 months sober, and I'm doing great. I heard in every meeting that if you stopped going to meetings you would drink again and crawl back or die, which of course is flawed logic. I enjoyed AA at first and got a lot out of it, and did fully work the 12 steps, so if anyone wants to call me a 'dry drunk' or whatever can kiss my arse. But I found myself not wanted to share after a while because I didn't have anything to say that I didn't think would be productive. There became a point when I just felt I was hearing the same things and the same stories, and the whole experience began to make me uncomfortable. I guess my point is that AA really did help me get off to a great start and is a great resource if you need lots of support, but I believe that it is not a life sentence. For what it's worth...

basIam

You are quite correct.

Some people find they no longer need to hang out in meetings.
Others find that continuing working with newcomers a joy.

What ever the case... we do recover... through AA we are given choice to live our lives where before, we had NO choice, despite what we thought to the contrary.

By the way, the thread title should be changed to "If I don't want to try AA, what are my choices?"

In order to conclude something doesn't work work you have to complete it.

The 12 steps are a suggestion as a whole. One suggestion- the 12 steps. Not 12 individual suggestions...

"These are the steps we took which are suggested as a progam of recovery"

If ya didn't take the steps, you can't say it doesn't work.

I know no one who has taken the steps for whom it did not work.

I challenge anyone to show me someone who took the steps, as outined in the book, who did not recover.

Ananda

I took the steps as outlined in the book and didn't recover.

I now utilize AA, some smart, my personal spiritual path, and SR to work toward recovery.

There are those who want sobriety desperately and are willing and do work the steps exactly as outlined in the book, and still do not get or stay sober.

That is the beauty of SR for me...that I can utilize many different tools and find a way to stay sober that works for me and share what I have found useful with others who come here in search of sobriety.

I share with other alchoholics and addicts to suport their recovery as well as my own.

Thanks

Boleo

http://www.alcoholics-info.com/Buddhist_Alcoholics.html

HuskyPup

Have you looked into SMART recovery? They have a very active bulletin board, and they also have meetings in some areas. It's kind of the opposite of AA in terms of recovery models; it places the emphasis on self empowerment/rational choices rather than helplessness/higher powers. It sounds like it might be a good fit.

I also don't know that Carl Jung would sanction AA as it currently exists. While I am a huge admirer and fan of Jung, and do think a spiritual aspect is useful in recovery, I do not see it as useful in the way AA outlines it. Also, it should be noted Jung thought a spiritual approach might be useful for extreme cases of drinking problems, not any and all cases. I think this is where AA and psychology/science differ: AA tends to view all ‘alcoholics’ as the same, as anonymous, meaning literally 'without distinction'. Modern medicine and psychology look at a host of factors and degrees of substance abuse. One thing about AA I have noted is that it seems geared more towards 24/7 'hardcore' drinkers, as opposed to those with problems binging on weekends, or 'functional' in whatever loose sense of the word.

I think it's entirely possible to recover on your own, and I also know it is not easy. I often feel a bit frustrated that AA has such a monopoly on available groups---one can get to feeling left out and lonely. Not everyone cares to or needs to deal with the confrontational, often aggressive, ill-tempered folks who seem to like to bully others, with their brash pronouncements and constant iterations of this or that catch-phrase. It is frustrating to have to hear there is only one way, theirs, over and over and over again. So ‘it worked for you’, and you know ‘no other approach’. Fine, we get it.

But have strength, look within yourself, and good luck. This can be done.

Boleo

First of all, If I could just quit drinking - I would not have the ism of alcoholism.

Second, it is not simple nor easy to work the steps for the first time but once I felt that I was recovered it became second nature to me to work the daily steps 10,11 & 12.

Last but not least, for those of us who use promises as a benchmark (there are over 100 of them) it is an "end of suffering" program.

Pinkcuda

Wasn't there a period of time where you had your last drank and the "Spiritual Awakening"?

"The terms "spiritual experience" and "spiritual awakening" are used many times in this book which, upon careful reading, shows that the personality change sufficient to bring about recovery from alcoholism has manifested itself among us in many different forms".

The "Spiritual" awakening is a "result of these 12 steps"

Therefore "Everybody" quits without the 12 steps. The stay quit as a result of taking them.

Gypsy Feet

Name your threads how ever you like. I have concluded FOR ME lots of things don't work without finishing. Liver and onions come to mind. I refuse to eat the whole plate just to be able to say I don't like it. Teaching didn't "work" for me as a career. The system is broken, I didn't need to do it forever just to find out it wasn't where I wanted to be.



Its ironic to me that THIS is the kind of stuff that can turn people off AA, and yet some people miss all of the clues and shove it down anyway.

sometimes subtle works better as an "attraction"

I resent the insinuation that if your sober but not program, your a dry drunk and/or a relapse waiting to happen, and if your program and drinking, you didn't do it right. I almost refrained from ever even checking out a meeting because of that message

I had huge "moments of clarity" and "spiritual awakenings" long before I stepped foot in a meeting, it can be done. Lots of my recovery tools/knowledge I got from the very people posting on this thread, both steppers and non.


There is lots of good stuff here on this thread, both AA and alternative. I do enjoy reading about how people got sober.

As long as you keep looking, keep asking questions, keep trying things, there is hope that something one day will click. I hope to see you back here someday soon, sharing with others what finally worked for you.

basIam

Where did I never said there weren't other ways?

Where did I say anything about dry drunk?

Who said AA was the only way to get a spiritual experience?

What I did say is dont say something doesn't work when it hasnt been implemented completely

Its like saying antibiotics dont work without completing the prescription and overcoming the infection naturally.

falacious reasoning

CarolD

Everybody chill please and remember....

Thank you

laurie6781

(((((Recovered)))))

I do understand your dilemma. When I found recovery back in June of '81, after literally dying from Alcoholism, AA was the only 'game' in town. So I had no choice if I wanted to stay stopped. I did work the program of the 12 steps to the best of my ability.

I would love to tell you my life got 'wonderful, but that would be a lie. Even at 4 years sober I was miserable much of the time, but it was still better than when I had been out there drinking and using all those years.

Over my years of continuing to stay sober and clean, I have done much reading of different programs as they have become available, self help books, even took the family skeleton out of the closet and went the the Native American Elders. I learned much about living life on life's terms without chemicals.

The one thing I found with all my reseach on trying to improve me was that I HAD TO DO THE HARD WORK. There was and is NO MAGIC BULLET OR PILL. I have to do a lot of HARD WORK on ME to CHANGE ME. No one else, not my therapist, not my sponsor, not the folks in the AA meetings could do it. I had to do it.

You know all those years I drank and used I used to be a GREAT STARTER on anything new, ......................... job, a project, a new relationship etc but I was a REAL CHITTY FINISHER. I always quit. Well ............................................. with this thing called alcoholism, I couldn't quit. I had already died (yep, ER Doc was writing my TOD on my medical chart when my heart started on it's own) so I HAD TO STICK WITH SOMETHING to stay alive.

I learned about CBT (Cognitive Behavior Training) before it was even called that. I had to practice, physically practice, changing my actions and reactions, until the new actions and reactions became my 'norm' instead of the 'old way.' I had to learn to physically 'bite' my tongue to not say something so I had time to 'think' before I actually opened my mouth to speak so I would not hurt someone with my words.

Miss Done shared with you what she had to do, and she did a lot. She also ranted, raved, screamed, cried, laughed hysterically and then actually started to laugh ................. at herself. But ............................... SHE WORKED HARD, HARDER THAN SHE HAD EVER WORKED AT ANYTHING BEFORE to CHANGE HERSELF. I watched her struggles, but as miserable as she was sometimes she never swayed off the path of recovery because she WANTED TO LIVE. She is one of the ones on this board that makes my heart smile.


Our Dee74 is another one ............................. no organized program, but he did do a lot of reading, writing here, reading the responses, applying to himself what he thought would work for him and has come so very far from where he was. Yes, he struggled. Yes he ranted. But he is still here today, and he is still sober, and ....................... he is STILL WORKING ON HIMSELF. Another person who makes my heart smile.

So ............................................. I believe your answer is RECOVERY IS VERY DEFINITELY POSSIBLE, no matter what program or how you choose to do it. The first step is NOT TO DRINK. EVEN IF YOUR AZZ IS FALLING OFF, you DON'T DRINK. Then you find something, whether it is self help books, SMART, REBT, LIFE RING, or something else that has a bit of appeal to you. THEN you start the WORK of STAYING SOBER.

Miss Done used bits and pieces of different philosophies and different programs and applied them to her life. I started with AA and then took bits and pieces from other means and have applied them to my life, and NO I am NOT miserable today, nor have I been for a very long time. My life is and has been GREAT for many many years not. But, I had to WORK FOR IT.

You can do this, you have been given some great advice on this thread, now ..........you have the means within you. You are the only one that can FIX YOU.

I wish you well on your journey. Please keep posting and let us know how you are doing as we do care very much.

Love and hugs,

bugsworth

Recovered...I am sorry to see that you have not posted in a couple of days and I hope that you are doing well. I just wanted to add that I agree with Pinkcuda...everbody quits without the 12 steps...it is the actions that we engage in after the quit that supports continued sobriety. Some people employ the 12 step approach and many do not. Please, not even for a second, doubt the power of the human mind and spirit. Again I hope you are well and please check in.