Do you feel any remorse?
A jug fills drop by drop
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
Gypsy thank you, I got that book, I will put it on my living room so I remember to read it daily, it feels good to have others to share thoughts.... I did not know that forum existed.
Astro thanks for reminding me of it, I bought it a while ago and of course I had it stored as if I didn't desperately needed every word on it. I will start reading it tonight..
charmian no worries, I guess when it stings its because its true, I know the girl, and that was the first thing that crossed my mind too, they are made for each other. I guess if I claim to "care" for this guy I should be happy he found someone, at this point that is just too much to ask for... I guess what really stings is not that it happened but how quickly it was, how quickly I was forgotten. Wow.
I was thinking if this guy had stopped drinking I would probably be as obsessed thinking after all I went through, now someone else will have the good him, etc. etc.
Or if he were single I would be obsessed every weekend thinking he is out there partying and going out with many women....
I am trying to rise my self esteem and know I will never be replaced... I am trying to believe God saved me from further hurt and took that girl so I wouldn't go back for more... I know I would have believed in him again.
laurie I am not sure how to get this grief counseling, I sometimes get the feeling my therapist does not "get" how bad i feel, or perhaps I do not express this to its full extent... I got an AA place nearby, they always made me feel better, perhaps its time to go again, unfortunately I cant go to Alanon due to schedules...
I can't thank you all enough for your input.... I am afraid to let this guy go, and i know clinging is just hurting me, he is not coming back (and even if he wanted I would not want anything to do with him), I never controlled his problem, I need to accept the guy I thought I knew is lost for good. I really need to remember all the instances where he disrespected me and stop idealizing him, it was all a show.. it was not real.
I am on antidepressants again, funny he once told me I could benefit from a psychiatrist, well so there, he was right. Though I feel weak like him, needing a substance to cope with life or more like numbing myself so I no longer feel.
Astro thanks for reminding me of it, I bought it a while ago and of course I had it stored as if I didn't desperately needed every word on it. I will start reading it tonight..
charmian no worries, I guess when it stings its because its true, I know the girl, and that was the first thing that crossed my mind too, they are made for each other. I guess if I claim to "care" for this guy I should be happy he found someone, at this point that is just too much to ask for... I guess what really stings is not that it happened but how quickly it was, how quickly I was forgotten. Wow.
I was thinking if this guy had stopped drinking I would probably be as obsessed thinking after all I went through, now someone else will have the good him, etc. etc.
Or if he were single I would be obsessed every weekend thinking he is out there partying and going out with many women....
I am trying to rise my self esteem and know I will never be replaced... I am trying to believe God saved me from further hurt and took that girl so I wouldn't go back for more... I know I would have believed in him again.
laurie I am not sure how to get this grief counseling, I sometimes get the feeling my therapist does not "get" how bad i feel, or perhaps I do not express this to its full extent... I got an AA place nearby, they always made me feel better, perhaps its time to go again, unfortunately I cant go to Alanon due to schedules...
I can't thank you all enough for your input.... I am afraid to let this guy go, and i know clinging is just hurting me, he is not coming back (and even if he wanted I would not want anything to do with him), I never controlled his problem, I need to accept the guy I thought I knew is lost for good. I really need to remember all the instances where he disrespected me and stop idealizing him, it was all a show.. it was not real.
I am on antidepressants again, funny he once told me I could benefit from a psychiatrist, well so there, he was right. Though I feel weak like him, needing a substance to cope with life or more like numbing myself so I no longer feel.
A jug fills drop by drop
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
ah laurie yes I know why I was attracted to someone like him, my therapist says I need to get closer to my dad... i have been isolating myself from everybody lately, guess I need to ask for help 
for the Nth time, funny how this sorrow suddenly hits you out of the blue in full force once again. This time I know it was triggered because I was sent to a different parking lot at work, and that is exactly where we went to buy some furniture for our new home, things were already bad and there I was crying in the middle of the expo... still feels like yesterday
thanks all for being out there
for the Nth time, funny how this sorrow suddenly hits you out of the blue in full force once again. This time I know it was triggered because I was sent to a different parking lot at work, and that is exactly where we went to buy some furniture for our new home, things were already bad and there I was crying in the middle of the expo... still feels like yesterdaythanks all for being out there
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
**{hugs}}
I've been triggered by some things, too.
I was out on a date. Kissed the guy at the end-everything was fine. Then on the drive home, OMG. It was like a tsunami of pain just hit me, out of the blue. I started bawling like a baby, just pounding the steering wheel. Just crying out why why why. Why does he have to be an alcoholic...
Yeah, I'm sure I will see things. Like somewhere on my desk is a little love note he wrote me. I'm afraid to move stuff around and find it and break down again. But that's life, I guess. Love and loss. Just push on through.
I've been triggered by some things, too.
I was out on a date. Kissed the guy at the end-everything was fine. Then on the drive home, OMG. It was like a tsunami of pain just hit me, out of the blue. I started bawling like a baby, just pounding the steering wheel. Just crying out why why why. Why does he have to be an alcoholic...
Yeah, I'm sure I will see things. Like somewhere on my desk is a little love note he wrote me. I'm afraid to move stuff around and find it and break down again. But that's life, I guess. Love and loss. Just push on through.
Originally Posted by TakingCharge999 
ah laurie yes I know why I was attracted to someone like him, my therapist says I need to get closer to my dad... i have been isolating myself from everybody lately, guess I need to ask for help for the Nth time, funny how this sorrow suddenly hits you out of the blue in full force once again. This time I know it was triggered because I was sent to a different parking lot at work, and that is exactly where we went to buy some furniture for our new home, things were already bad and there I was crying in the middle of the expo... still feels like yesterday
thanks all for being out there
for the Nth time, funny how this sorrow suddenly hits you out of the blue in full force once again. This time I know it was triggered because I was sent to a different parking lot at work, and that is exactly where we went to buy some furniture for our new home, things were already bad and there I was crying in the middle of the expo... still feels like yesterdaythanks all for being out there
Heathen
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: La La Land, USA
Posts: 2,567
To answer your original question.. yes, I feel remorse. Difference between your ex and most of us responding is, we're sober and most of us working on recovery. No way in hell did I feel anything for anyone while I was active, much less myself or my 'partner'.
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
Originally Posted by smacked
To answer your original question.. yes, I feel remorse. Difference between your ex and most of us responding is, we're sober and most of us working on recovery. No way in hell did I feel anything for anyone while I was active, much less myself or my 'partner'.
My AH is sober in recovery (was when I left anyway) and apparently feels absolutely no remorse whatsoever. Matter of fact, he's more insane, more manipulating, and more controlling than ever.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
Do I feel remorse any more?
No
That's because I have gone through my steps and made amends to those people who I felt deserved an amends, I probably missed some, but that's OK, more will be revealed.
What my well being depends on is NOT what amends people made to me, or dwelling on what harms were done to me, but what amends I made to people that I harmed, and I believe in that direction lies health for all people, alcoholic or not.
When I was drinking, I was generally speaking, ....ummm... drinking ...umm..like....all the time. I was a bartender that attended drinking events for my recreational purposes, every single girlfriend I had at this time was a "normal" drinker, and every. single. girlfriend. I dated during this period tried to change me after we "got together".
Sometime after the first month the manipulation would begin, gentle at first, cajoling, Please, stop drinking, or don't drink too much tonight etc. as time went on, the level of manipulation and attempts at control would escalate, until it was screaming, yelling, punishing, etc.
I hate to sound cold, but any woman who dated me during this period got, I won't say "what she deserved" but I guarantee she didn't get any surprises, especially as I was usually dating one of her friends or a co-worker when we 'hooked up".
They KNEW I was a drinker, but always dated me for "my potential", or I was "fun" or "sexy" or whatever, but almost immediately the plan to make me over in their image would begin, then, when I wouldn't change, they would blame me and get bitter, controlling and angry, and then when I slept with one of their friends and left them for a co worker or friend, just like I had met them, they were REALLY surprised.
I was like some drunken Charlie Chaplin that was "taken hostage" repeatedly by screaming codies.
My well being doesn't rely on me receiving amends from these women, although some of them were hurtful, hateful, controlling harpies that found horrific ways to "punish" me for my drinking in their attempts at control, but me cleaning up my side of the street, making amends for the harms I have done, changing my life now for the better and moving on.
Me going to F and F and asking the women there "Do you have any remorse" about all of the nagging, whining, manipulation, and controlling behavior wouldn't help "my recovery" in the slightest. My recovery doesn't depend on the behavior of others.
I have found, in my life, that any "plan" that relies on someone else to change, and yes, waiting for someone to apologize for their hurtful behavior, is just "more of the same", is just more attempts at controlling another person, and is doomed to painful failure that just leaves me bitter, resentful and angry.
In a Film Lit class I was taught there is no such thing as a "surprise ending", everything is "telegraphed" ahead of time, so after the movie you "connect the dots" and everything all falls into place.
My experience is life is the same way, no one wakes up an alcoholic one day, and no one just wakes up next to an alcoholic one day, it's a slow process in both cases, and once you are aware of that condition, whether you are the alcoholic, or the one next to the alcoholic, your choices are then up to you, if I blamed my alcoholism on my parents or those women I'd still be drunk. If I were waiting around for an apology or for 'them' to have "remorse" I'd still be bitter.
At some point it's up to me to take the bull by the horns and take responsibility for my own recovery.
No
That's because I have gone through my steps and made amends to those people who I felt deserved an amends, I probably missed some, but that's OK, more will be revealed.
What my well being depends on is NOT what amends people made to me, or dwelling on what harms were done to me, but what amends I made to people that I harmed, and I believe in that direction lies health for all people, alcoholic or not.
When I was drinking, I was generally speaking, ....ummm... drinking ...umm..like....all the time. I was a bartender that attended drinking events for my recreational purposes, every single girlfriend I had at this time was a "normal" drinker, and every. single. girlfriend. I dated during this period tried to change me after we "got together".
Sometime after the first month the manipulation would begin, gentle at first, cajoling, Please, stop drinking, or don't drink too much tonight etc. as time went on, the level of manipulation and attempts at control would escalate, until it was screaming, yelling, punishing, etc.
I hate to sound cold, but any woman who dated me during this period got, I won't say "what she deserved" but I guarantee she didn't get any surprises, especially as I was usually dating one of her friends or a co-worker when we 'hooked up".
They KNEW I was a drinker, but always dated me for "my potential", or I was "fun" or "sexy" or whatever, but almost immediately the plan to make me over in their image would begin, then, when I wouldn't change, they would blame me and get bitter, controlling and angry, and then when I slept with one of their friends and left them for a co worker or friend, just like I had met them, they were REALLY surprised.
I was like some drunken Charlie Chaplin that was "taken hostage" repeatedly by screaming codies.
My well being doesn't rely on me receiving amends from these women, although some of them were hurtful, hateful, controlling harpies that found horrific ways to "punish" me for my drinking in their attempts at control, but me cleaning up my side of the street, making amends for the harms I have done, changing my life now for the better and moving on.
Me going to F and F and asking the women there "Do you have any remorse" about all of the nagging, whining, manipulation, and controlling behavior wouldn't help "my recovery" in the slightest. My recovery doesn't depend on the behavior of others.
I have found, in my life, that any "plan" that relies on someone else to change, and yes, waiting for someone to apologize for their hurtful behavior, is just "more of the same", is just more attempts at controlling another person, and is doomed to painful failure that just leaves me bitter, resentful and angry.
In a Film Lit class I was taught there is no such thing as a "surprise ending", everything is "telegraphed" ahead of time, so after the movie you "connect the dots" and everything all falls into place.
My experience is life is the same way, no one wakes up an alcoholic one day, and no one just wakes up next to an alcoholic one day, it's a slow process in both cases, and once you are aware of that condition, whether you are the alcoholic, or the one next to the alcoholic, your choices are then up to you, if I blamed my alcoholism on my parents or those women I'd still be drunk. If I were waiting around for an apology or for 'them' to have "remorse" I'd still be bitter.
At some point it's up to me to take the bull by the horns and take responsibility for my own recovery.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
Originally Posted by Still Waters
My AH is sober in recovery (was when I left anyway) and apparently feels absolutely no remorse whatsoever. Matter of fact, he's more insane, more manipulating, and more controlling than ever.
Why did you marry him then?
Heathen
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: La La Land, USA
Posts: 2,567
Originally Posted by Ago
Do I feel remorse any more?
No
That's because I have gone through my steps and made amends to those people who I felt deserved an amends, I probably missed some, but that's OK, more will be revealed.
What my well being depends on is NOT what amends people made to me, or dwelling on what harms were done to me, but what amends I made to people that I harmed, and I believe in that direction lies health for all people, alcoholic or not.
When I was drinking, I was generally speaking, ....ummm... drinking ...umm..like....all the time. I was a bartender that attended drinking events for my recreational purposes, every single girlfriend I had at this time was a "normal" drinker, and every. single. girlfriend. I dated during this period tried to change me after we "got together".
Sometime after the first month the manipulation would begin, gentle at first, cajoling, Please, stop drinking, or don't drink too much tonight etc. as time went on, the level of manipulation and attempts at control would escalate, until it was screaming, yelling, punishing, etc.
I hate to sound cold, but any woman who dated me during this period got, I won't say "what she deserved" but I guarantee she didn't get any surprises, especially as I was usually dating one of her friends or a co-worker when we 'hooked up".
They KNEW I was a drinker, but always dated me for "my potential", or I was "fun" or "sexy" or whatever, but almost immediately the plan to make me over in their image would begin, then, when I wouldn't change, they would blame me and get bitter, controlling and angry, and then when I slept with one of their friends and left them for a co worker or friend, just like I had met them, they were REALLY surprised.
I was like some drunken Charlie Chaplin that was "taken hostage" repeatedly by screaming codies.
My well being doesn't rely on me receiving amends from these women, although some of them were hurtful, hateful, controlling harpies that found horrific ways to "punish" me for my drinking in their attempts at control, but me cleaning up my side of the street, making amends for the harms I have done, changing my life now for the better and moving on.
Me going to F and F and asking the women there "Do you have any remorse" about all of the nagging, whining, manipulation, and controlling behavior wouldn't help "my recovery" in the slightest. My recovery doesn't depend on the behavior of others.
I have found, in my life, that any "plan" that relies on someone else to change, and yes, waiting for someone to apologize for their hurtful behavior, is just "more of the same", is just more attempts at controlling another person, and is doomed to painful failure that just leaves me bitter, resentful and angry.
In a Film Lit class I was taught there is no such thing as a "surprise ending", everything is "telegraphed" ahead of time, so after the movie you "connect the dots" and everything all falls into place.
My experience is life is the same way, no one wakes up an alcoholic one day, and no one just wakes up next to an alcoholic one day, it's a slow process in both cases, and once you are aware of that condition, whether you are the alcoholic, or the one next to the alcoholic, your choices are then up to you, if I blamed my alcoholism on my parents or those women I'd still be drunk. If I were waiting around for an apology or for 'them' to have "remorse" I'd still be bitter.
At some point it's up to me to take the bull by the horns and take responsibility for my own recovery.
No
That's because I have gone through my steps and made amends to those people who I felt deserved an amends, I probably missed some, but that's OK, more will be revealed.
What my well being depends on is NOT what amends people made to me, or dwelling on what harms were done to me, but what amends I made to people that I harmed, and I believe in that direction lies health for all people, alcoholic or not.
When I was drinking, I was generally speaking, ....ummm... drinking ...umm..like....all the time. I was a bartender that attended drinking events for my recreational purposes, every single girlfriend I had at this time was a "normal" drinker, and every. single. girlfriend. I dated during this period tried to change me after we "got together".
Sometime after the first month the manipulation would begin, gentle at first, cajoling, Please, stop drinking, or don't drink too much tonight etc. as time went on, the level of manipulation and attempts at control would escalate, until it was screaming, yelling, punishing, etc.
I hate to sound cold, but any woman who dated me during this period got, I won't say "what she deserved" but I guarantee she didn't get any surprises, especially as I was usually dating one of her friends or a co-worker when we 'hooked up".
They KNEW I was a drinker, but always dated me for "my potential", or I was "fun" or "sexy" or whatever, but almost immediately the plan to make me over in their image would begin, then, when I wouldn't change, they would blame me and get bitter, controlling and angry, and then when I slept with one of their friends and left them for a co worker or friend, just like I had met them, they were REALLY surprised.
I was like some drunken Charlie Chaplin that was "taken hostage" repeatedly by screaming codies.
My well being doesn't rely on me receiving amends from these women, although some of them were hurtful, hateful, controlling harpies that found horrific ways to "punish" me for my drinking in their attempts at control, but me cleaning up my side of the street, making amends for the harms I have done, changing my life now for the better and moving on.
Me going to F and F and asking the women there "Do you have any remorse" about all of the nagging, whining, manipulation, and controlling behavior wouldn't help "my recovery" in the slightest. My recovery doesn't depend on the behavior of others.
I have found, in my life, that any "plan" that relies on someone else to change, and yes, waiting for someone to apologize for their hurtful behavior, is just "more of the same", is just more attempts at controlling another person, and is doomed to painful failure that just leaves me bitter, resentful and angry.
In a Film Lit class I was taught there is no such thing as a "surprise ending", everything is "telegraphed" ahead of time, so after the movie you "connect the dots" and everything all falls into place.
My experience is life is the same way, no one wakes up an alcoholic one day, and no one just wakes up next to an alcoholic one day, it's a slow process in both cases, and once you are aware of that condition, whether you are the alcoholic, or the one next to the alcoholic, your choices are then up to you, if I blamed my alcoholism on my parents or those women I'd still be drunk. If I were waiting around for an apology or for 'them' to have "remorse" I'd still be bitter.
At some point it's up to me to take the bull by the horns and take responsibility for my own recovery.
Bravo.
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
Originally Posted by Ago
That brings to mind the question:
Why did you marry him then?
Why did you marry him then?
Just like so many of the spouses state over and over and over again in the FF forum that over the years things change - some are married to people who didn't drink at all when they met!
Things happen, people change.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
Originally Posted by Still Waters
Because Ago, he was not these things when I met and dated and married him. Obviously.
Just like so many of the spouses state over and over and over again in the FF forum that over the years things change - some are married to people who didn't drink at all when they met!
Things happen, people change.
Just like so many of the spouses state over and over and over again in the FF forum that over the years things change - some are married to people who didn't drink at all when they met!
Things happen, people change.
I asked because, in my experience, it takes two to tango
I have dated a few PsychoBetties in my day, but two things were ALWAYS true FOR ME
One: I played a part
Two: They were a reflection of me in some way, shape or form, and unless I took responsibility and changed myself and did some "inner work", I would just exchange one PB for another.
It's my experience I attract "my mirror", If I am healthy, I attract healthy people, and if I am unhealthy, I attract unhealthy people.
I have also learned that I can't bring anyone 'up to my level" but they can sure drag me down to theirs, and FOR ME it takes a TON of work to get "back up to my level" after I have ALLOWED someone to drag me down to their level.
I didn't "choose" to be an alcoholic, but acceptance of that fact has allowed me to do the work necessary in order to recover from it, and I didn't choose to have F'd up parents that taught me F'd up relationship skills that lead me to pick deranged harpies (in the past) as girlfriends, but acceptance of that fact has lead me to work on THOSE issues and therefore make better choices in my relationships.
Who I choose to be in a relationship with is the best barometer of MY OWN mental health I have yet come across. It doesn't lie.
Ever.
They are -FOR ME- never "The problem", just an indication of one in me.
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
I don't believe those things are always true for everyone though.
Some marry young, either they both drink or they both don't drink, or one does. But it's years down the road before the spiral begins.
Some (like me) marry someone who requires long sessions with addictive narcotics due to injuries or health problems which leads to a downward spiral.
Some are simply blindsided, they had no earthly idea these things were going on at all.
In these instances, there is no "mirror" involved. Sometimes, things simply happen.
Some marry young, either they both drink or they both don't drink, or one does. But it's years down the road before the spiral begins.
Some (like me) marry someone who requires long sessions with addictive narcotics due to injuries or health problems which leads to a downward spiral.
Some are simply blindsided, they had no earthly idea these things were going on at all.
In these instances, there is no "mirror" involved. Sometimes, things simply happen.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
Originally Posted by Still Waters
I don't believe those things are always true for everyone though.
Some marry young, either they both drink or they both don't drink, or one does. But it's years down the road before the spiral begins.
Some (like me) marry someone who requires long sessions with addictive narcotics due to injuries or health problems which leads to a downward spiral.
Some are simply blindsided, they had no earthly idea these things were going on at all.
In these instances, there is no "mirror" involved. Sometimes, things simply happen.
Some marry young, either they both drink or they both don't drink, or one does. But it's years down the road before the spiral begins.
Some (like me) marry someone who requires long sessions with addictive narcotics due to injuries or health problems which leads to a downward spiral.
Some are simply blindsided, they had no earthly idea these things were going on at all.
In these instances, there is no "mirror" involved. Sometimes, things simply happen.
My alcoholism isn't something I "chose" it "just happened", in looking back at my life, I believe I was born with it, because from the moment I took my first drink, it affected me in a way it doesn't affect "normal people"
However, it took years before it lead to a "downward spiral" as in it "became apparent" to myself and those around me that I was an alcoholic.
Was it still there?
Yes, absolutely, it just hadn't gotten out of control
Until I admitted it however and took the necessary steps to put my alcoholism into "remission" I kept getting drunk however.
It's not "my fault" I am an alcoholic, but it's "my problem" and one I need to actively address or it affects me adversely
The same is true of the relationship "issues" I learned from my parents and then experiences I had during my "formulative" years, it took years for the 'downward spiral" to take place
were these issues still there?
Yes, absolutely, it just hadn't gotten out of control
It's not my fault my parents (and grandparents) were not...umm.... lets just say not great role models for "life" but until I addressed these issues, I kept magically ending up with the same girlfriend over and over and over.
Only by going back through my life and thoroughly working the steps and going to some intensive therapy was I able to see the progression of both of these, before that I was just a "victim of circumstances"
shrug, what I tell alcoholics if they are wondering if they are alcoholics is try some controlled drinking, the truth will out soon enough, the funny thing, for me, is my codependency isn't readily apparent when I am single, I am amazingly codependency free, so I guess what I would suggest to a codie is go try some "controlled dating", I suspect 'the truth will out" there as well.
It always has for me.
A jug fills drop by drop
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
Interesting conversation going on...
I agree if a person shows himself as it is then you start knowing him and you've got to notice if they are cheaters, jerks, drunkards, etc and cannot "expect" to be with someone different or try to mold them...
I also agree that many things do come as a surprise and it should be difficult for an alcoholic to realize how his acts are witnessed by the people next to him.
I remember many instances instead of going with his usual buddies he preferred to stay with me... its not so obvious at first, especially when you are a social drinker and you have no way to know how important it is to the other person. For me, yes it was a total surprise, not that he drank, but that he would become agressive. I had no way to prevent that.
Thanks all for giving me food for thought... I know I am far far away from "forgiving" but I am trying to understand I do not need validation in order to move on and live a happier life. I try to imagine what would happen if the ex would suddenly came and told me "I am very sorry for ALL of the bad times" ... it wouldn't change a bit I guess or erase any hurt....
I start feeling better then another wave of memories, shock, strikes me and it feels like this will never end. Then I see him walking by without a care on the world and I feel I am going to explode!
I agree if a person shows himself as it is then you start knowing him and you've got to notice if they are cheaters, jerks, drunkards, etc and cannot "expect" to be with someone different or try to mold them...
I also agree that many things do come as a surprise and it should be difficult for an alcoholic to realize how his acts are witnessed by the people next to him.
I remember many instances instead of going with his usual buddies he preferred to stay with me... its not so obvious at first, especially when you are a social drinker and you have no way to know how important it is to the other person. For me, yes it was a total surprise, not that he drank, but that he would become agressive. I had no way to prevent that.
Thanks all for giving me food for thought... I know I am far far away from "forgiving" but I am trying to understand I do not need validation in order to move on and live a happier life. I try to imagine what would happen if the ex would suddenly came and told me "I am very sorry for ALL of the bad times" ... it wouldn't change a bit I guess or erase any hurt....
I start feeling better then another wave of memories, shock, strikes me and it feels like this will never end. Then I see him walking by without a care on the world and I feel I am going to explode!
A jug fills drop by drop
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
Also, thank you for responding - I know you are recovered alcoholics and have done the amends, I know you all have nothing to do with who you were when you were active...so just to be plain, I got a lot of respect for you and have not meant anything as offensive... I appreciate your view... it supports mine too: if there is any remorse it is being drowned just like any other 'uncomfortable' feeling..
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
Well I am a regular on F&F and I can personally say I made an amends to my xabf. This was before I even realized the depths of my codependency, but I was pretty much aware in the back of my mind when I was engaging in angry, passive-aggressive and downright "You hurt me? fine, I'll hurt you back" behavior, that I was behaving wrongly.
For a lot of us codies, though, we don't recognize the alcoholism. We are as much in denial as the alcoholic. We also trade in minimization, rationalization...go to the F&F Forum. You'll see it in action. "Well, he ONLY drove drunk with my daughter in the car ONCE. Other than that, he's a GREAT dad!"
You can't really say we knew what we were getting into. Each case is different. In my case, people sloughed off my x's drinking. "He's young. He needs to party. He'll outgrow it."
I mean, look at our society! Stupid drunken behavior is not only tolerated, but LAUGHED at! It's entertainment! Drinking is such a socially acceptable,e ven considered "recreational" behavior, that it's easy to just not see when someone has a problem with it.
Plus, not many people are educated about the signs, and they can be well-hidden.
I'm just sayin' (shrug).
For a lot of us codies, though, we don't recognize the alcoholism. We are as much in denial as the alcoholic. We also trade in minimization, rationalization...go to the F&F Forum. You'll see it in action. "Well, he ONLY drove drunk with my daughter in the car ONCE. Other than that, he's a GREAT dad!"
You can't really say we knew what we were getting into. Each case is different. In my case, people sloughed off my x's drinking. "He's young. He needs to party. He'll outgrow it."
I mean, look at our society! Stupid drunken behavior is not only tolerated, but LAUGHED at! It's entertainment! Drinking is such a socially acceptable,e ven considered "recreational" behavior, that it's easy to just not see when someone has a problem with it.
Plus, not many people are educated about the signs, and they can be well-hidden.
I'm just sayin' (shrug).
Originally Posted by Ago
Do I feel remorse any more?
No
That's because I have gone through my steps and made amends to those people who I felt deserved an amends, I probably missed some, but that's OK, more will be revealed.
What my well being depends on is NOT what amends people made to me, or dwelling on what harms were done to me, but what amends I made to people that I harmed, and I believe in that direction lies health for all people, alcoholic or not.
When I was drinking, I was generally speaking, ....ummm... drinking ...umm..like....all the time. I was a bartender that attended drinking events for my recreational purposes, every single girlfriend I had at this time was a "normal" drinker, and every. single. girlfriend. I dated during this period tried to change me after we "got together".
Sometime after the first month the manipulation would begin, gentle at first, cajoling, Please, stop drinking, or don't drink too much tonight etc. as time went on, the level of manipulation and attempts at control would escalate, until it was screaming, yelling, punishing, etc.
I hate to sound cold, but any woman who dated me during this period got, I won't say "what she deserved" but I guarantee she didn't get any surprises, especially as I was usually dating one of her friends or a co-worker when we 'hooked up".
They KNEW I was a drinker, but always dated me for "my potential", or I was "fun" or "sexy" or whatever, but almost immediately the plan to make me over in their image would begin, then, when I wouldn't change, they would blame me and get bitter, controlling and angry, and then when I slept with one of their friends and left them for a co worker or friend, just like I had met them, they were REALLY surprised.
I was like some drunken Charlie Chaplin that was "taken hostage" repeatedly by screaming codies.
My well being doesn't rely on me receiving amends from these women, although some of them were hurtful, hateful, controlling harpies that found horrific ways to "punish" me for my drinking in their attempts at control, but me cleaning up my side of the street, making amends for the harms I have done, changing my life now for the better and moving on.
Me going to F and F and asking the women there "Do you have any remorse" about all of the nagging, whining, manipulation, and controlling behavior wouldn't help "my recovery" in the slightest. My recovery doesn't depend on the behavior of others.
I have found, in my life, that any "plan" that relies on someone else to change, and yes, waiting for someone to apologize for their hurtful behavior, is just "more of the same", is just more attempts at controlling another person, and is doomed to painful failure that just leaves me bitter, resentful and angry.
In a Film Lit class I was taught there is no such thing as a "surprise ending", everything is "telegraphed" ahead of time, so after the movie you "connect the dots" and everything all falls into place.
My experience is life is the same way, no one wakes up an alcoholic one day, and no one just wakes up next to an alcoholic one day, it's a slow process in both cases, and once you are aware of that condition, whether you are the alcoholic, or the one next to the alcoholic, your choices are then up to you, if I blamed my alcoholism on my parents or those women I'd still be drunk. If I were waiting around for an apology or for 'them' to have "remorse" I'd still be bitter.
At some point it's up to me to take the bull by the horns and take responsibility for my own recovery.
No
That's because I have gone through my steps and made amends to those people who I felt deserved an amends, I probably missed some, but that's OK, more will be revealed.
What my well being depends on is NOT what amends people made to me, or dwelling on what harms were done to me, but what amends I made to people that I harmed, and I believe in that direction lies health for all people, alcoholic or not.
When I was drinking, I was generally speaking, ....ummm... drinking ...umm..like....all the time. I was a bartender that attended drinking events for my recreational purposes, every single girlfriend I had at this time was a "normal" drinker, and every. single. girlfriend. I dated during this period tried to change me after we "got together".
Sometime after the first month the manipulation would begin, gentle at first, cajoling, Please, stop drinking, or don't drink too much tonight etc. as time went on, the level of manipulation and attempts at control would escalate, until it was screaming, yelling, punishing, etc.
I hate to sound cold, but any woman who dated me during this period got, I won't say "what she deserved" but I guarantee she didn't get any surprises, especially as I was usually dating one of her friends or a co-worker when we 'hooked up".
They KNEW I was a drinker, but always dated me for "my potential", or I was "fun" or "sexy" or whatever, but almost immediately the plan to make me over in their image would begin, then, when I wouldn't change, they would blame me and get bitter, controlling and angry, and then when I slept with one of their friends and left them for a co worker or friend, just like I had met them, they were REALLY surprised.
I was like some drunken Charlie Chaplin that was "taken hostage" repeatedly by screaming codies.
My well being doesn't rely on me receiving amends from these women, although some of them were hurtful, hateful, controlling harpies that found horrific ways to "punish" me for my drinking in their attempts at control, but me cleaning up my side of the street, making amends for the harms I have done, changing my life now for the better and moving on.
Me going to F and F and asking the women there "Do you have any remorse" about all of the nagging, whining, manipulation, and controlling behavior wouldn't help "my recovery" in the slightest. My recovery doesn't depend on the behavior of others.
I have found, in my life, that any "plan" that relies on someone else to change, and yes, waiting for someone to apologize for their hurtful behavior, is just "more of the same", is just more attempts at controlling another person, and is doomed to painful failure that just leaves me bitter, resentful and angry.
In a Film Lit class I was taught there is no such thing as a "surprise ending", everything is "telegraphed" ahead of time, so after the movie you "connect the dots" and everything all falls into place.
My experience is life is the same way, no one wakes up an alcoholic one day, and no one just wakes up next to an alcoholic one day, it's a slow process in both cases, and once you are aware of that condition, whether you are the alcoholic, or the one next to the alcoholic, your choices are then up to you, if I blamed my alcoholism on my parents or those women I'd still be drunk. If I were waiting around for an apology or for 'them' to have "remorse" I'd still be bitter.
At some point it's up to me to take the bull by the horns and take responsibility for my own recovery.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Phitsanulok Thailand
Posts: 39
I regret things that I have done where it caused hurt to other people, but the best that I can do is not cause further hurt. I got hurt too. I think regret is a good thing because we can learn from it. I believe guilt is a completely useless emotion and yet another form of selfishness. Guilt is all about, me, me, me.
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