Do you feel any remorse?
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
This thread took a turn that reminded me of Kurt Vonnegut Jr. He wrote a book called Sirens of Titans once, where Mankind ends up founding a new religion based on the quote:
I guess his premise was one lie was as good as another when it comes to founding religions and evading personal responsibility.
This is just for me, but I don't believe my life was a series of accidents, that stuff "just happened" to me, I either created it or allowed it, to my way of thinking, thinking I was a "victim" of a series of "accidents" means I am going to remain a victim and those things will continue to happen to me.
These two statements cancel each other out, either it was ignorance or denial but it can't be both. If I were to go to a court of law and cite ignorance as a defense it wouldn't work under any circumstance, not in any way shape or form.
There is a thing called "personal exceptionalism" also known as "terminal uniqueness" where "still suffering alcoholics" come into the rooms of AA claiming "special circumstances" and "how they were different"
They don't get sober.
Ever.
Not until they change their thinking.
This double entry book-keeping and terminally uniqueness is as applicable to codies as it is to active addicts/alcoholics, denial is denial is denial, and the thing about denial is the person with it is not the one best qualified to decide whether they have it or not, that's best left to an objective third party such as a sponsor or therapist.
There's a widely used quoted passage in the BB that has now pervaded ALL recovery programs that says something along the lines of "Acceptance is the answer to ALL my problems today"
What that means to me is unless I accept something for how it actually is, I can't take the necessary steps to correct it. As long as I continue blaming others and taking their inventory and not making the changes necessary to change myself, and take responsibility for myself and my actions, I am going to be a "victim of a series of accidents"
This, to me, includes blaming significant others for what happened in relationships, if I just point the giant finger of blame and say, "well, yeah but, they were an alcoholic" like it's some giant "get out of jail free" card I can thus avoid any sort of personal responsibility for my actions on WHY that relationship failed, or why this person just "became" magically bitter and angry at me for no "apparent reason".
BB quote 1st ed
The first book I ever picked up about codependency was Melody Beatties (sp) book "Codependent No More". In the introduction it said something along the lines of "If you are reading this for yourself, you may be a codependent, If you are reading this for somebody else you are definitely a codependent.
I knew right then I was screwed
Nothing would so vastly indicate my codependent tendency then dating a heroin addict then going to the recovering heroin addicts forums to "give them my (the codies) point of view" and going around to different forums posting "advice" rather then MY "experience, strength and hope"
Talk about denial, I mean that behavior is so vast that it's an entirely separate reality.
The first thing I heard when I started looking into codependency was "The Three C's"
You didn't cause it
You can't cure it
You can't control it
The next thing I observed is when I started seeing people upset about someone else's alcoholism, they were "bumping" up against one of the "three C's' usually the latter.
I would say looking at F and F, that about 1% of the threads there are "recovery based" and those are truly amazing, about 3% are people truly suffering from an alcoholics actions, and the other 90+% are threads about control. These alcoholics won't do what I want dammit. Whether drunk or sober, they appear to be a mule-headed bunch.
"Doesn't he know I know better then he does? He's just an alcoholic, he's sick"
Who died and made me God? Who decided I get to know what's best for another person then purposefully try to manipulate them to behave? Aren't these people over 18? If someone chooses alcohol or cocaine for example it's their choice, they are an adult, my choice is whether or not I decide to remain.
There is a TON of denial that occurs both in active alcoholism and active codependency, it just might not be happening where you think it is.
The ONLY way to "recover" from ANY sort of addiction, and that includes codependency FOR ME IN MY EXPERIENCE is to work on myself.
If you have any questions please refer to my signature, all answers are contained there.
I was a victim of a series of accidents, as are we all.
This is just for me, but I don't believe my life was a series of accidents, that stuff "just happened" to me, I either created it or allowed it, to my way of thinking, thinking I was a "victim" of a series of "accidents" means I am going to remain a victim and those things will continue to happen to me.
For a lot of us codies, though, we don't recognize the alcoholism. We are as much in denial as the alcoholic. We also trade in minimization, rationalization
You can't really say we knew what we were getting into. Each case is different.
You can't really say we knew what we were getting into. Each case is different.
There is a thing called "personal exceptionalism" also known as "terminal uniqueness" where "still suffering alcoholics" come into the rooms of AA claiming "special circumstances" and "how they were different"
They don't get sober.
Ever.
Not until they change their thinking.
One of the chief ways the addiction protects and strengthens itself is by a psychology of personal exceptionalism which permits the addict to maintain a simultaneous double-entry bookkeeping of addictive and non-addictive realities and to reconcile the two when required by reference to the unique, special considerations that at least in his own mind- happen to apply to his particular case.
The form of the logic for this personal exceptionalism is:
o Under ordinary circumstances and for most people X is undesirable/irrational;
o My circumstances are not ordinary and I am different from most people;
o Therefore X is not undesirable/irrational in my case - or not as undesirable/irrational as it would be in other cases.
Armed with this powerful tool of personal exceptionalism that is a virtual "Open Sesame" for every difficult ethical conundrum he is apt to face, the addict is free to take whatever measures are required for the preservation and progress of his addiction, while simultaneously maintaining his allegiance to the principles that would certainly apply if only his case were not a special one.
In treatment and rehabilitation centers this personal exceptionalism is commonly called "terminal uniqueness." The individual in the grip of this delusion is able to convince himself though not always others that his circumstances are such that ordinary rules and norms of behavior, rules and norms that he himself concurs with when it comes to other people, do not fairly or fully fit himself at the present time and hence must be bent or stretched just sufficiently to make room for his special needs. In most cases this plea for accommodation is acknowledged to be a temporary one and accompanied by a pledge or plan to return to the conventional "rules of engagement" as soon as circumstances permit.
The form of the logic for this personal exceptionalism is:
o Under ordinary circumstances and for most people X is undesirable/irrational;
o My circumstances are not ordinary and I am different from most people;
o Therefore X is not undesirable/irrational in my case - or not as undesirable/irrational as it would be in other cases.
Armed with this powerful tool of personal exceptionalism that is a virtual "Open Sesame" for every difficult ethical conundrum he is apt to face, the addict is free to take whatever measures are required for the preservation and progress of his addiction, while simultaneously maintaining his allegiance to the principles that would certainly apply if only his case were not a special one.
In treatment and rehabilitation centers this personal exceptionalism is commonly called "terminal uniqueness." The individual in the grip of this delusion is able to convince himself though not always others that his circumstances are such that ordinary rules and norms of behavior, rules and norms that he himself concurs with when it comes to other people, do not fairly or fully fit himself at the present time and hence must be bent or stretched just sufficiently to make room for his special needs. In most cases this plea for accommodation is acknowledged to be a temporary one and accompanied by a pledge or plan to return to the conventional "rules of engagement" as soon as circumstances permit.
There's a widely used quoted passage in the BB that has now pervaded ALL recovery programs that says something along the lines of "Acceptance is the answer to ALL my problems today"
What that means to me is unless I accept something for how it actually is, I can't take the necessary steps to correct it. As long as I continue blaming others and taking their inventory and not making the changes necessary to change myself, and take responsibility for myself and my actions, I am going to be a "victim of a series of accidents"
This, to me, includes blaming significant others for what happened in relationships, if I just point the giant finger of blame and say, "well, yeah but, they were an alcoholic" like it's some giant "get out of jail free" card I can thus avoid any sort of personal responsibility for my actions on WHY that relationship failed, or why this person just "became" magically bitter and angry at me for no "apparent reason".
"If we lean too heavily on people, they will sooner or later fail us, for they are human, too, and cannot possibly meet our incessant demands."
Oh yes, we are constantly demanding in one form or another...
"In this way our insecurity grows and festers. When we habitually try to manipulate others to our own willful desires, they revolt, and resist us heavily."
Yes, manipulation became a habit even if we don't want to admit it...
"Then we develop hurt feelings, a sense of persecution, and a desire to retaliate. As we redouble our efforts at control, and continue to fail, our suffering becomes acute and constant."
Oh yes, we are constantly demanding in one form or another...
"In this way our insecurity grows and festers. When we habitually try to manipulate others to our own willful desires, they revolt, and resist us heavily."
Yes, manipulation became a habit even if we don't want to admit it...
"Then we develop hurt feelings, a sense of persecution, and a desire to retaliate. As we redouble our efforts at control, and continue to fail, our suffering becomes acute and constant."
The first book I ever picked up about codependency was Melody Beatties (sp) book "Codependent No More". In the introduction it said something along the lines of "If you are reading this for yourself, you may be a codependent, If you are reading this for somebody else you are definitely a codependent.
I knew right then I was screwed
Nothing would so vastly indicate my codependent tendency then dating a heroin addict then going to the recovering heroin addicts forums to "give them my (the codies) point of view" and going around to different forums posting "advice" rather then MY "experience, strength and hope"
Talk about denial, I mean that behavior is so vast that it's an entirely separate reality.
The first thing I heard when I started looking into codependency was "The Three C's"
You didn't cause it
You can't cure it
You can't control it
The next thing I observed is when I started seeing people upset about someone else's alcoholism, they were "bumping" up against one of the "three C's' usually the latter.
I would say looking at F and F, that about 1% of the threads there are "recovery based" and those are truly amazing, about 3% are people truly suffering from an alcoholics actions, and the other 90+% are threads about control. These alcoholics won't do what I want dammit. Whether drunk or sober, they appear to be a mule-headed bunch.
"Doesn't he know I know better then he does? He's just an alcoholic, he's sick"
Who died and made me God? Who decided I get to know what's best for another person then purposefully try to manipulate them to behave? Aren't these people over 18? If someone chooses alcohol or cocaine for example it's their choice, they are an adult, my choice is whether or not I decide to remain.
There is a TON of denial that occurs both in active alcoholism and active codependency, it just might not be happening where you think it is.
The ONLY way to "recover" from ANY sort of addiction, and that includes codependency FOR ME IN MY EXPERIENCE is to work on myself.
If you have any questions please refer to my signature, all answers are contained there.
Last edited by Ago; 07-24-2009 at 11:14 AM.
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
I'm not saying what you wrote above is not helpful, useful, or valid. It definitely is.
But my post you're addressing was in response to YOUR post, which detailed your specific experiences. You said:
"They KNEW I was a drinker, but always dated me for "my potential", or I was "fun" or "sexy" or whatever, but almost immediately the plan to make me over in their image would begin, then, when I wouldn't change, they would blame me and get bitter, controlling and angry, and then when I slept with one of their friends and left them for a co worker or friend, just like I had met them, they were REALLY surprised."
OK, so maybe the women you dated heard from the others that you were a heavy drinker and ignored it. But it seems to me-correct me if I'm wrong-that you were extrapolating your experiences to the other F&F, or codependents, on the forum, suggesting we should take responsibility for getting involved w/alcoholics in the first place.
Maybe I didn't make it clear.
Yes, some codies don't even realize their significant others are alcoholics because, like I said, drinking is so accepted and acceptable in our society. I'm finding it hard to find a man who DOESN'T drink at all, right now, and that's what I'm looking for!!
Alcoholics don't have scarlet As on their forehead. My xabf and I lived far away from each other-somewhat long distance. He never drank that much in front of me. He didn't tell me when we talked on the phoen during the week everything he was doing. I didn't know about the "I just got home let me deal w/the stress" beers he drank. I'm sure there was a LOT he wasn't telling me.
Once the red flags started showing up, I thought I was "in love" and committed to this relationship-that's where denial hit.
2 yrs later I could no longer deny it because my xabf couldn't even stay sober for a month to save a relationship that he claimed was so important.
None of this means I am not accepting responsibiity for MY part in the relationship, or denying I'm codependent. I'm reading Melody Beatti'es book, I'm attending al-anon. I feel remorse. I've expressed it. I'm no longer in denial.
Im' just saying, cut some people slack for their relationship choices-we're not all like those women you dated.
But my post you're addressing was in response to YOUR post, which detailed your specific experiences. You said:
"They KNEW I was a drinker, but always dated me for "my potential", or I was "fun" or "sexy" or whatever, but almost immediately the plan to make me over in their image would begin, then, when I wouldn't change, they would blame me and get bitter, controlling and angry, and then when I slept with one of their friends and left them for a co worker or friend, just like I had met them, they were REALLY surprised."
OK, so maybe the women you dated heard from the others that you were a heavy drinker and ignored it. But it seems to me-correct me if I'm wrong-that you were extrapolating your experiences to the other F&F, or codependents, on the forum, suggesting we should take responsibility for getting involved w/alcoholics in the first place.
Maybe I didn't make it clear.
Yes, some codies don't even realize their significant others are alcoholics because, like I said, drinking is so accepted and acceptable in our society. I'm finding it hard to find a man who DOESN'T drink at all, right now, and that's what I'm looking for!!
Alcoholics don't have scarlet As on their forehead. My xabf and I lived far away from each other-somewhat long distance. He never drank that much in front of me. He didn't tell me when we talked on the phoen during the week everything he was doing. I didn't know about the "I just got home let me deal w/the stress" beers he drank. I'm sure there was a LOT he wasn't telling me.
Once the red flags started showing up, I thought I was "in love" and committed to this relationship-that's where denial hit.
2 yrs later I could no longer deny it because my xabf couldn't even stay sober for a month to save a relationship that he claimed was so important.
None of this means I am not accepting responsibiity for MY part in the relationship, or denying I'm codependent. I'm reading Melody Beatti'es book, I'm attending al-anon. I feel remorse. I've expressed it. I'm no longer in denial.
Im' just saying, cut some people slack for their relationship choices-we're not all like those women you dated.
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
I would say looking at F and F, that about 1% of the threads there are "recovery based" and those are truly amazing, about 3% are people truly suffering from an alcoholics actions, and the other 90+% are threads about control. These alcoholics won't do what I want dammit. Whether drunk or sober, they appear to be a mule-headed bunch.
"Doesn't he know I know better then he does? He's just an alcoholic, he's sick"
Who died and made me God? Who decided I get to know what's best for another person then purposefully try to manipulate them to behave? Aren't these people over 18? If someone chooses alcohol or cocaine for example it's their choice, they are an adult, my choice is whether or not I decide to remain.
"Doesn't he know I know better then he does? He's just an alcoholic, he's sick"
Who died and made me God? Who decided I get to know what's best for another person then purposefully try to manipulate them to behave? Aren't these people over 18? If someone chooses alcohol or cocaine for example it's their choice, they are an adult, my choice is whether or not I decide to remain.
Part of recovery is understanding, it's probably the first step wouldn't you say? You have to know what you have no control over, in order to hand it over.
And really, even a three year old plays God with an out of control alcoholic, even they know that person is sick and needs help.
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
I agree that it's our choice rather to remain, but I think he makes this all sound rather simplistic. Like, it's SO easy to just walk away.
Why on earth should it be considered easy to just walk away from someone you love, when you have hopes and dreams, and when that person may have been a lovable person before the addiction set in?
Is it easy to just give up on someone when you know they are going to die if they keep doing what they're doing??
And it's exceptionally hard to watch someone kill themselves. If you watch Intervention you get a sense for the gut-wrenching anguish families go through, trying to figure out what to do-nobody is born knowing that to save an alcoholic, you have to let them go.
As that Fray song said, "after all you do know best." We actually do know best. We know that the addict will die, because that is the progressive, guaranteed course of the disease if the person doesn't stop.
Knowing that, and then trying to get them help, may be an act of control. But i would hope you could understand why people do it.
I try to understand my xabf's crazy insane choices by learning what I can about the disease. "Walk a mile in my shoes" - maybe then you can see why we F&F make the choices WE make.
Why on earth should it be considered easy to just walk away from someone you love, when you have hopes and dreams, and when that person may have been a lovable person before the addiction set in?
Is it easy to just give up on someone when you know they are going to die if they keep doing what they're doing??
And it's exceptionally hard to watch someone kill themselves. If you watch Intervention you get a sense for the gut-wrenching anguish families go through, trying to figure out what to do-nobody is born knowing that to save an alcoholic, you have to let them go.
As that Fray song said, "after all you do know best." We actually do know best. We know that the addict will die, because that is the progressive, guaranteed course of the disease if the person doesn't stop.
Knowing that, and then trying to get them help, may be an act of control. But i would hope you could understand why people do it.
I try to understand my xabf's crazy insane choices by learning what I can about the disease. "Walk a mile in my shoes" - maybe then you can see why we F&F make the choices WE make.
Originally Posted by Still Waters 
Are you saying that staying ignorant about alcoholism is a good recovery plan for families? That families dealing with a loving father and husband suddenly drinking tenfold over his "normal" weekend cocktails are just control freaks?
Part of recovery is understanding, it's probably the first step wouldn't you say? You have to know what you have no control over, in order to hand it over.
And really, even a three year old plays God with an out of control alcoholic, even they know that person is sick and needs help.
Part of recovery is understanding, it's probably the first step wouldn't you say? You have to know what you have no control over, in order to hand it over.
And really, even a three year old plays God with an out of control alcoholic, even they know that person is sick and needs help.
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
@ Still Waters
I am just saying, if nothing changes, nothing changes, that to me, means unless I actually change myself, I am going to keep getting what I am getting, and changing location or GF's doesn't seem to work because no matter where I go, there I am, I need to make fundamental changes in my self if I expect fundamental changes in my life. I need to actually take some action that changes me and my attitudes. As long as I remain a victim, I remain a victim.
I have walked a mile in your shoes, and then some, and then I decided to get some different shoes quite frankly, that meant actually attending meetings, not just talking about it, getting a sponsor and working the steps, for me that also meant "running away from home" from owning my own business to broke and homeless/couch surfing in order to get away from the practicing alcoholics in my life.
I only stopped posting in F and F about a week or so after you arrived, here are couple threads I started since I got here, starting with the first ones, when I was "in your shoes", the first post was the day I arrived and had broken up only hours before.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...long-post.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-no-title.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...60610-wow.html
This one was turned into a sticky
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...oundaries.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...re-stores.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...=1792104&pp=20
So I have been where you have been, I have suffered what you have suffered, the point I am trying to make is until I took responsibilities for MY OWN behavior and actions I was doomed to repeat them. I purposefully posted links that show me totally mangled and getting sucked back into the drama, finding out my ex was pregnant then thinking I was going to be a father then watching her have a miscarriage.
I "get it"
It also behooved me when I got here and was brand new with NO recovery under my belt to NOT give advice, especially advice I was incredibly unqualified to give, like being a non alcoholic posting in the alcoholic forums and giving advice to a dual diagnosed alcoholic of the opposite sex who couldn't quit drinking especially if I was not a Doctor, a man, or duel diagnosed.
In recovery, the language we use is "experience, strength, and hope"
That means we share what happened to us, not what we read in a book somewhere.
When I got here my experience was I was unable to get anyone else sober.
In this thread you write
Earlier today you wrote
I drank for years realizing I NEEDED to quit drinking, I NEEDED to go to meetings and get help, I read self help books galore and always had "a plan" and strangely enough nothing changed for me until i actually took some action.
So I am not buying the whole "I was taken by surprise" story, how one day he was just magically an alcoholic.
You can't polish a turd, and the truth of the matter is you can't successfully hide alcoholism. I didn't handle it any better then you did quite frankly, and if anything ended up in worse shape, so I've been "in your shoes"
Anyway, I hear what you are saying, I HAVE walked a mile in your shoes, now I will ask that you walk a mile in mine, as in start working your own damn program and not everyone else's, stop going to AA meetings because you have a sober boyfriend or reading about alcoholism and STOP giving advice to alcoholics, especially sober ones, we saw what happened to your last relationship and go get some help for yourself as has been suggested about ten times in various threads today.
It's like having a drunk guy telling me from a bar stool how to quit drinking, well, this study shows that blah blah it's just not helpful because it's advice coming from a drunk person who is unable to stay sober, whether the information is correct or not, or me going to post in the womens forum about PMS because I read some "helpful article". I can read about PMS until I am blue in the face, but I will never truly be able to understand it, and I will CERTAINLY not make any friends going to the womens forum telling them "what they should do" about their PMS.
The mind reels
OH, and yeah, 17 years in AA, 2 slips, years of therapy, 8 times through the steps myself, hundreds with sponsees,, dozens and dozens of sponsees blah blah have attended alanon, worked the steps with 'double winner sponsors" etc
I love TLC999 (The OP) and have been there for her since the beginning, we have walked through some big stuff together over the course of the last year, and I was entirely comfortable with writing what I did to her.
My fur just stands up when I start reading all this "innocent victims of circumstances" BS especially when there is outstanding evidence to the contrary staring me in the face.
WE'RE ALL INNOCENT "VICTIMS" of circumstances until we make the decision to not be victims any more.
I have watched 100's of thousands of "new" alcoholics walk through the doors of AA over the years, and not ONE of them that blamed their alcoholism on outside circumstances ever stopped drinking. It's like watching the same episode of "intervention" 100,000 times, they all say the same exact things, word for word, they are ALL innocent victims and have the yeah but yeah but and the well every case is not the same blah blah blah
You see the irony of listening to tens of thousands of people telling me how "unique" they are is don't you? How their circumstances were "different" and "special"?
gets tedious watching the same episode of "I am in active denial" over and over and over and over just with "different actors" sometimes, the dialogue is literally word for word verbatim the same in every "episode".
No wonder they told me to take the cotton out of my ears and stick it in my mouth and sit down and STFU when I got to AA, I have more sympathy for those old timers every day
I am just saying, if nothing changes, nothing changes, that to me, means unless I actually change myself, I am going to keep getting what I am getting, and changing location or GF's doesn't seem to work because no matter where I go, there I am, I need to make fundamental changes in my self if I expect fundamental changes in my life. I need to actually take some action that changes me and my attitudes. As long as I remain a victim, I remain a victim.
"Walk a mile in my shoes" - maybe then you can see why we F&F make the choices WE make.
I only stopped posting in F and F about a week or so after you arrived, here are couple threads I started since I got here, starting with the first ones, when I was "in your shoes", the first post was the day I arrived and had broken up only hours before.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...long-post.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-no-title.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...60610-wow.html
This one was turned into a sticky
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...oundaries.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...re-stores.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...=1792104&pp=20
So I have been where you have been, I have suffered what you have suffered, the point I am trying to make is until I took responsibilities for MY OWN behavior and actions I was doomed to repeat them. I purposefully posted links that show me totally mangled and getting sucked back into the drama, finding out my ex was pregnant then thinking I was going to be a father then watching her have a miscarriage.
I "get it"
It also behooved me when I got here and was brand new with NO recovery under my belt to NOT give advice, especially advice I was incredibly unqualified to give, like being a non alcoholic posting in the alcoholic forums and giving advice to a dual diagnosed alcoholic of the opposite sex who couldn't quit drinking especially if I was not a Doctor, a man, or duel diagnosed.
In recovery, the language we use is "experience, strength, and hope"
That means we share what happened to us, not what we read in a book somewhere.
When I got here my experience was I was unable to get anyone else sober.
In this thread you write
None of this means I am not accepting responsibiity for MY part in the relationship, or denying I'm codependent. I'm reading Melody Beatti'es book, I'm attending al-anon.
I am realizing I need to go to therapy. I need to go to meetings. I need to probably practice cognitive behavioral therapy. Maybe even practice some different ways of conflict resolution (I have unresolved anger).
Yes, some codies don't even realize their significant others are alcoholics because, like I said, drinking is so accepted and acceptable in our society.
I felt the same way about my exabf's friends. Oh man. They're all users, alcoholics, dealers...shouldn't that have smacked me dead in the face? You'd think. D-OH. Like attracts like.
You can't polish a turd, and the truth of the matter is you can't successfully hide alcoholism. I didn't handle it any better then you did quite frankly, and if anything ended up in worse shape, so I've been "in your shoes"
Anyway, I hear what you are saying, I HAVE walked a mile in your shoes, now I will ask that you walk a mile in mine, as in start working your own damn program and not everyone else's, stop going to AA meetings because you have a sober boyfriend or reading about alcoholism and STOP giving advice to alcoholics, especially sober ones, we saw what happened to your last relationship and go get some help for yourself as has been suggested about ten times in various threads today.
It's like having a drunk guy telling me from a bar stool how to quit drinking, well, this study shows that blah blah it's just not helpful because it's advice coming from a drunk person who is unable to stay sober, whether the information is correct or not, or me going to post in the womens forum about PMS because I read some "helpful article". I can read about PMS until I am blue in the face, but I will never truly be able to understand it, and I will CERTAINLY not make any friends going to the womens forum telling them "what they should do" about their PMS.
The mind reels
OH, and yeah, 17 years in AA, 2 slips, years of therapy, 8 times through the steps myself, hundreds with sponsees,, dozens and dozens of sponsees blah blah have attended alanon, worked the steps with 'double winner sponsors" etc
I love TLC999 (The OP) and have been there for her since the beginning, we have walked through some big stuff together over the course of the last year, and I was entirely comfortable with writing what I did to her.
My fur just stands up when I start reading all this "innocent victims of circumstances" BS especially when there is outstanding evidence to the contrary staring me in the face.
WE'RE ALL INNOCENT "VICTIMS" of circumstances until we make the decision to not be victims any more.
I have watched 100's of thousands of "new" alcoholics walk through the doors of AA over the years, and not ONE of them that blamed their alcoholism on outside circumstances ever stopped drinking. It's like watching the same episode of "intervention" 100,000 times, they all say the same exact things, word for word, they are ALL innocent victims and have the yeah but yeah but and the well every case is not the same blah blah blah
You see the irony of listening to tens of thousands of people telling me how "unique" they are is don't you? How their circumstances were "different" and "special"?
gets tedious watching the same episode of "I am in active denial" over and over and over and over just with "different actors" sometimes, the dialogue is literally word for word verbatim the same in every "episode".
No wonder they told me to take the cotton out of my ears and stick it in my mouth and sit down and STFU when I got to AA, I have more sympathy for those old timers every day
Last edited by Ago; 07-24-2009 at 09:15 PM.
A jug fills drop by drop
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
Wow there is a lot going on in this thread...
Ago, I knew my ex drank, but I thought he was a social drinker... once he said he wanted to drink less... he cut back for weeks, months... at first you do not share that much time or live with them, many times you have progressed in the relation to take the next step and share a home and that is where the alcoholism cannot hide. Well. At least that is what happened to me. Then you are the one starting the denial too, because the person you see has nothing to do with the one you thought you knew. You've got to remember some people are also master manipulators and liers. And many of us here as soon as we recognized the 'true colors' left. Maybe I was just naive and ignorant, but for some around here, the "control" you mention is just missing the person we knew, or the show that took place. And we want those good times back and wonder where the person we thought we knew went. Then we get more informed and know there is no going back. And we are not sure if anything was real and leave heartbroken and confused.
I mean, in our society drinks are common, right? this ex's best friend got married and my ex got wasted. That was expected, he was celebrating, whatever. At that point I had no idea about alcoholism. The next morning his hands were trembling. I thought he was cold! now I understand he had withdrawal symptoms. If I knew it was one I would have confronted him.
Anyway, I hear you about victimism and martyrdom. For instance, I know a normal person would have moved on already from someone capable of hurting a lot and deep in denial. In fact for a normal person it would have been easy to say "what a troubled guy, I am better off alone" but no, I have suffered this way too much already and being obsessed about him for months now. So I get it we have our own homework.
I also think its a little bit different when someone has been with an alcoholic for 20 years and keeps saying "he drank again!!!!!" and complaining...
Back to the remorse thing... perhaps it is like that, sometimes your amends are ceasing to hurt the other person... I asked my ex not to talk to me anymore and he has respected that.... one particularly bad night he said "you do not deserve this treatment, promise me you will be happy... even without me... promise one day you will forgive me" I answered "I will be happy, and it will take time, but I will forgive you" I cling to those words as it was the good guy in him talking. Then he was nowhere to be seen and other ppl agree he suddenly turned careless, did not give a damn, totally irresponsible at work, etc. so its difficult to think everything is predictable....... I certainly believe there is an element of surprise surrounding active alcoholism...
Perhaps I am just rambling tonight, just throwing my ideas so far, perhaps I have not been as involved in the literature to be able to talk about this disease... I am only talking from my own limited experience here...
Will re read the thread tomorrow and take what helps me... like actually DOING the stuff we quack about a lot. I know I have quaCKed. So thanks for that not so subtle kick on the a$$..
Ago, I knew my ex drank, but I thought he was a social drinker... once he said he wanted to drink less... he cut back for weeks, months... at first you do not share that much time or live with them, many times you have progressed in the relation to take the next step and share a home and that is where the alcoholism cannot hide. Well. At least that is what happened to me. Then you are the one starting the denial too, because the person you see has nothing to do with the one you thought you knew. You've got to remember some people are also master manipulators and liers. And many of us here as soon as we recognized the 'true colors' left. Maybe I was just naive and ignorant, but for some around here, the "control" you mention is just missing the person we knew, or the show that took place. And we want those good times back and wonder where the person we thought we knew went. Then we get more informed and know there is no going back. And we are not sure if anything was real and leave heartbroken and confused.
I mean, in our society drinks are common, right? this ex's best friend got married and my ex got wasted. That was expected, he was celebrating, whatever. At that point I had no idea about alcoholism. The next morning his hands were trembling. I thought he was cold! now I understand he had withdrawal symptoms. If I knew it was one I would have confronted him.
Anyway, I hear you about victimism and martyrdom. For instance, I know a normal person would have moved on already from someone capable of hurting a lot and deep in denial. In fact for a normal person it would have been easy to say "what a troubled guy, I am better off alone" but no, I have suffered this way too much already and being obsessed about him for months now. So I get it we have our own homework.
I also think its a little bit different when someone has been with an alcoholic for 20 years and keeps saying "he drank again!!!!!" and complaining...
Back to the remorse thing... perhaps it is like that, sometimes your amends are ceasing to hurt the other person... I asked my ex not to talk to me anymore and he has respected that.... one particularly bad night he said "you do not deserve this treatment, promise me you will be happy... even without me... promise one day you will forgive me" I answered "I will be happy, and it will take time, but I will forgive you" I cling to those words as it was the good guy in him talking. Then he was nowhere to be seen and other ppl agree he suddenly turned careless, did not give a damn, totally irresponsible at work, etc. so its difficult to think everything is predictable....... I certainly believe there is an element of surprise surrounding active alcoholism...
Perhaps I am just rambling tonight, just throwing my ideas so far, perhaps I have not been as involved in the literature to be able to talk about this disease... I am only talking from my own limited experience here...
Will re read the thread tomorrow and take what helps me... like actually DOING the stuff we quack about a lot. I know I have quaCKed. So thanks for that not so subtle kick on the a$$..
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
Thanks for taking the time to respond to Ago, but I'm out of here.
I really don't need the hostility, or someone telling me I'm not WORKING my own program who doesn't even know me!! Ago, you have no idea what I've been doing or what my relationship with my xabf was like, so I don't think you can comment on that.
This just summing up everyone who's ever been in a relationship with an alcoholic as someone who "should have known better", like we KNEW what we were getting ourselves into when, as TC says below, we were subject to a lot of LIES and MANIPULATIONS throughout our relationships is simply UNFAIR and shows a complete lack of understanding.
Ago, I'm sorry you seem to be carrying so much hostility and resentment against SOMEONE in your life, but you don't really need to dump it on those of us here who are trying to get some comfort and understanding.
Just like you didn't want anyone trying to control you and saying YOU NEED TO WORK YOUR PROGRAM, I don't like being told by YOU that I should be working my program.
All of you, I wish you the best. I'm done with this forum. I better go spending all my time WORKING MY PROGRAM.
I really don't need the hostility, or someone telling me I'm not WORKING my own program who doesn't even know me!! Ago, you have no idea what I've been doing or what my relationship with my xabf was like, so I don't think you can comment on that.
This just summing up everyone who's ever been in a relationship with an alcoholic as someone who "should have known better", like we KNEW what we were getting ourselves into when, as TC says below, we were subject to a lot of LIES and MANIPULATIONS throughout our relationships is simply UNFAIR and shows a complete lack of understanding.
Ago, I'm sorry you seem to be carrying so much hostility and resentment against SOMEONE in your life, but you don't really need to dump it on those of us here who are trying to get some comfort and understanding.
Just like you didn't want anyone trying to control you and saying YOU NEED TO WORK YOUR PROGRAM, I don't like being told by YOU that I should be working my program.
All of you, I wish you the best. I'm done with this forum. I better go spending all my time WORKING MY PROGRAM.
Originally Posted by TakingCharge999
Wow there is a lot going on in this thread...
Ago, I knew my ex drank, but I thought he was a social drinker... once he said he wanted to drink less... he cut back for weeks, months... at first you do not share that much time or live with them, many times you have progressed in the relation to take the next step and share a home and that is where the alcoholism cannot hide. Well. At least that is what happened to me. Then you are the one starting the denial too, because the person you see has nothing to do with the one you thought you knew. You've got to remember some people are also master manipulators and liers. And many of us here as soon as we recognized the 'true colors' left. Maybe I was just naive and ignorant, but for some around here, the "control" you mention is just missing the person we knew, or the show that took place. And we want those good times back and wonder where the person we thought we knew went. Then we get more informed and know there is no going back. And we are not sure if anything was real and leave heartbroken and confused.
I mean, in our society drinks are common, right? this ex's best friend got married and my ex got wasted. That was expected, he was celebrating, whatever. At that point I had no idea about alcoholism. The next morning his hands were trembling. I thought he was cold! now I understand he had withdrawal symptoms. If I knew it was one I would have confronted him.
Anyway, I hear you about victimism and martyrdom. For instance, I know a normal person would have moved on already from someone capable of hurting a lot and deep in denial. In fact for a normal person it would have been easy to say "what a troubled guy, I am better off alone" but no, I have suffered this way too much already and being obsessed about him for months now. So I get it we have our own homework.
I also think its a little bit different when someone has been with an alcoholic for 20 years and keeps saying "he drank again!!!!!" and complaining...
Back to the remorse thing... perhaps it is like that, sometimes your amends are ceasing to hurt the other person... I asked my ex not to talk to me anymore and he has respected that.... one particularly bad night he said "you do not deserve this treatment, promise me you will be happy... even without me... promise one day you will forgive me" I answered "I will be happy, and it will take time, but I will forgive you" I cling to those words as it was the good guy in him talking. Then he was nowhere to be seen and other ppl agree he suddenly turned careless, did not give a damn, totally irresponsible at work, etc. so its difficult to think everything is predictable....... I certainly believe there is an element of surprise surrounding active alcoholism...
Perhaps I am just rambling tonight, just throwing my ideas so far, perhaps I have not been as involved in the literature to be able to talk about this disease... I am only talking from my own limited experience here...
Will re read the thread tomorrow and take what helps me... like actually DOING the stuff we quack about a lot. I know I have quaCKed. So thanks for that not so subtle kick on the a$$..
Ago, I knew my ex drank, but I thought he was a social drinker... once he said he wanted to drink less... he cut back for weeks, months... at first you do not share that much time or live with them, many times you have progressed in the relation to take the next step and share a home and that is where the alcoholism cannot hide. Well. At least that is what happened to me. Then you are the one starting the denial too, because the person you see has nothing to do with the one you thought you knew. You've got to remember some people are also master manipulators and liers. And many of us here as soon as we recognized the 'true colors' left. Maybe I was just naive and ignorant, but for some around here, the "control" you mention is just missing the person we knew, or the show that took place. And we want those good times back and wonder where the person we thought we knew went. Then we get more informed and know there is no going back. And we are not sure if anything was real and leave heartbroken and confused.
I mean, in our society drinks are common, right? this ex's best friend got married and my ex got wasted. That was expected, he was celebrating, whatever. At that point I had no idea about alcoholism. The next morning his hands were trembling. I thought he was cold! now I understand he had withdrawal symptoms. If I knew it was one I would have confronted him.
Anyway, I hear you about victimism and martyrdom. For instance, I know a normal person would have moved on already from someone capable of hurting a lot and deep in denial. In fact for a normal person it would have been easy to say "what a troubled guy, I am better off alone" but no, I have suffered this way too much already and being obsessed about him for months now. So I get it we have our own homework.
I also think its a little bit different when someone has been with an alcoholic for 20 years and keeps saying "he drank again!!!!!" and complaining...
Back to the remorse thing... perhaps it is like that, sometimes your amends are ceasing to hurt the other person... I asked my ex not to talk to me anymore and he has respected that.... one particularly bad night he said "you do not deserve this treatment, promise me you will be happy... even without me... promise one day you will forgive me" I answered "I will be happy, and it will take time, but I will forgive you" I cling to those words as it was the good guy in him talking. Then he was nowhere to be seen and other ppl agree he suddenly turned careless, did not give a damn, totally irresponsible at work, etc. so its difficult to think everything is predictable....... I certainly believe there is an element of surprise surrounding active alcoholism...
Perhaps I am just rambling tonight, just throwing my ideas so far, perhaps I have not been as involved in the literature to be able to talk about this disease... I am only talking from my own limited experience here...
Will re read the thread tomorrow and take what helps me... like actually DOING the stuff we quack about a lot. I know I have quaCKed. So thanks for that not so subtle kick on the a$$..
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
@ Still Waters
No no, I was just saying if nothing changes, nothing changes and responding to your last post, only the first paragraph was to you, sorry I wasn't more clear
3 year olds will also stick their tongues in electric light sockets and eat poo, it doesn't mean it's healthy behavior, and personally I have never seen a 3 yo "play God" and be disrespectful to a parent unless it was a learned behavior
@Sandrawg
I am sorry you are leaving, the thing about recovery is it only works if one works one one's own program, the very definition of codependency is running around "fixing" others and giving advice.
I was told if I wanted to get different results I had to try different things in my life, for me that was go to meetings, work the steps, and quite frankly, for me, I wasn't allowed to share for a year. I was told to sit down, stfu and listen.
The people who set that rule didn't do it to stifle me, they did it to save my life, you see, it's impossible to teach someone who already knows everything and who can't listen because they are too busy running their mouth.
I am sorry I handled you a bit rough, but the thing is I recognize you in myself all those years ago, it wasn't hostility it was frustration. I was trying to make the point, if you are trying to learn about "recovery" and especially recovery from codependency, which is the uncontrollable desire to control and fix others, wouldn't the best approach be to learn to focus on yourself and actually listen to what people are saying to you rather then throwing a snit and stomping off? I was grabbed by the ear, dragged outside and told in no uncertain terms that I would never get sober working someone else's program, that if I was actually working my own program I'd be so busy I wouldn't have TIME to work on anyone else's program.
My daddy always told me if more then two people said the same thing to me it would behoove me to pay attention, it doesn't mean they are right, but it's something I should take note of, and I noticed a number of people suggested focusing on yourself and stop sharing outside your experience in various threads yesterday, can you entertain the possibility that these people are actually trying to help?
@TakingCharge999
I actually have "two hats" on this issue as it were, one is my experience AS the alcoholic, one is WITH alcoholics
I think the issue is IMO practicing alcoholics don't see the impact they have on those around them, it's not they don't suffer from remorse, it's they are oblivious to the harm that is caused by their behavior. I don't think this trait is specific to alcoholics, but I think active alcoholism increases and distorts it considerably.
It's not we/they don't feel remorse, it's just impossible to have remorse for something you are unwilling and unable to see that you did, you follow?
In my opinion addiction carries with it certain behaviors, whether it be addiction to alcohol, heroin, relationships or food, it's also my opinion that codependency is being addicted to an alcoholic/addict, one of the chief "symptoms" of addiction is denial, that's why (and it took me a long time to understand this) in recovery from codependency the people with "time" keep reminding us to bring the focus back on ourselves.
Because that's where recovery is to be found.
Oh, and TC?
:ghug3
Keep coming back, keep doing what you are doing, you have a come a long way, I AM so proud of you
No no, I was just saying if nothing changes, nothing changes and responding to your last post, only the first paragraph was to you, sorry I wasn't more clear
3 year olds will also stick their tongues in electric light sockets and eat poo, it doesn't mean it's healthy behavior, and personally I have never seen a 3 yo "play God" and be disrespectful to a parent unless it was a learned behavior
@Sandrawg
I am sorry you are leaving, the thing about recovery is it only works if one works one one's own program, the very definition of codependency is running around "fixing" others and giving advice.
I was told if I wanted to get different results I had to try different things in my life, for me that was go to meetings, work the steps, and quite frankly, for me, I wasn't allowed to share for a year. I was told to sit down, stfu and listen.
The people who set that rule didn't do it to stifle me, they did it to save my life, you see, it's impossible to teach someone who already knows everything and who can't listen because they are too busy running their mouth.
I am sorry I handled you a bit rough, but the thing is I recognize you in myself all those years ago, it wasn't hostility it was frustration. I was trying to make the point, if you are trying to learn about "recovery" and especially recovery from codependency, which is the uncontrollable desire to control and fix others, wouldn't the best approach be to learn to focus on yourself and actually listen to what people are saying to you rather then throwing a snit and stomping off? I was grabbed by the ear, dragged outside and told in no uncertain terms that I would never get sober working someone else's program, that if I was actually working my own program I'd be so busy I wouldn't have TIME to work on anyone else's program.
My daddy always told me if more then two people said the same thing to me it would behoove me to pay attention, it doesn't mean they are right, but it's something I should take note of, and I noticed a number of people suggested focusing on yourself and stop sharing outside your experience in various threads yesterday, can you entertain the possibility that these people are actually trying to help?
@TakingCharge999
I actually have "two hats" on this issue as it were, one is my experience AS the alcoholic, one is WITH alcoholics
I think the issue is IMO practicing alcoholics don't see the impact they have on those around them, it's not they don't suffer from remorse, it's they are oblivious to the harm that is caused by their behavior. I don't think this trait is specific to alcoholics, but I think active alcoholism increases and distorts it considerably.
It's not we/they don't feel remorse, it's just impossible to have remorse for something you are unwilling and unable to see that you did, you follow?
In my opinion addiction carries with it certain behaviors, whether it be addiction to alcohol, heroin, relationships or food, it's also my opinion that codependency is being addicted to an alcoholic/addict, one of the chief "symptoms" of addiction is denial, that's why (and it took me a long time to understand this) in recovery from codependency the people with "time" keep reminding us to bring the focus back on ourselves.
Because that's where recovery is to be found.
Oh, and TC?
:ghug3
Keep coming back, keep doing what you are doing, you have a come a long way, I AM so proud of you
1 Corinthians 13:1-13 love
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL
Posts: 435
Wow... do I have some thoughts/questions I would like to share after reading.
I would like to encourage everyone though. Even though there is disagreement here I appreciate all the hard work that you all put into revealing your thoughts. Especially Ago and sandrawg.
To bad there wasn't more RA responses.
I would like to encourage everyone though. Even though there is disagreement here I appreciate all the hard work that you all put into revealing your thoughts. Especially Ago and sandrawg.
To bad there wasn't more RA responses.
A jug fills drop by drop
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
Thank you all for your responses...
Oh did I take many things personal months ago, in fact Ago I think we ignored each other for a while LOL. It is not that you don't like someone, its just because there are times when the truth hurts too much. I am glad we get along better Ago, you saw me in my worst codieness, my "bottom" so the fact you say that is very valuable and made my day :ghug2
I realize as well that, for instance there were times I got drunk and the next day I do not remember the night well... for ex, the times he abused verbally he was drunk as hell. When confronted he shrugged it all saying "I don't remember" "I may not mean what I say when I'm drunk" so, for the one who was there, sober and listening, its like WoW, you are able to get all your hellish opinions and judgment out and next day its like nothing happened at all? WOW. That hurts big time.
About remorse, I was wondering today, while cooking... what do I feel remorse about? I think it was to believe his words more than my own. And after the beakup, to allow myself to suffer so much, and be alone so many months. It was hell before and it was hell after. I feel remorse for falling for the lies and for still have my heart pounding when he is around. I know there are 2 instances where he cried too so I feel remorse for those.
This last week while I was away it was easy to me to forgive the ex for being human and I kind of forgot about him. Unwillingly I get glimpses of his new life (hard not to when he is the soul of the company, blah blah) and I just don't know when the hell I will find it in my heart to forgive all those instances and forgive myself for not running away the first time he stumbled drunk at home. And for being so bad at breakups. And for being in high doses of antidepressants and still find he "gets" me.
I have so much work to do... yet in some sick sense it was good all this happened, now I get a more clear picture of the road ahead........ thank you all for your insights, Ago I agree with you, it seems for him there was nothing to be regretful about. I don't try to figure out madmen, I am not sure why i am so fixed up in figuring out this one. Perhaps because at first he was such a great person. If he had shown his stuff the first time, well then its easy to get away, or to say "I knew this from Day 1, this is expected".
Watching an alcoholic's quick progression sucks and it also sucks, to remember who you were before and then see who you are now... I became a grinch, loner, totally unmotivated and my real remorse is to abandon myself continually and keep on comin up with reasons why it didnt work... hahha!! as if I had a role in the first place........
Thanks for letting me vent and for your time
Oh did I take many things personal months ago, in fact Ago I think we ignored each other for a while LOL. It is not that you don't like someone, its just because there are times when the truth hurts too much. I am glad we get along better Ago, you saw me in my worst codieness, my "bottom" so the fact you say that is very valuable and made my day :ghug2
I realize as well that, for instance there were times I got drunk and the next day I do not remember the night well... for ex, the times he abused verbally he was drunk as hell. When confronted he shrugged it all saying "I don't remember" "I may not mean what I say when I'm drunk" so, for the one who was there, sober and listening, its like WoW, you are able to get all your hellish opinions and judgment out and next day its like nothing happened at all? WOW. That hurts big time.
About remorse, I was wondering today, while cooking... what do I feel remorse about? I think it was to believe his words more than my own. And after the beakup, to allow myself to suffer so much, and be alone so many months. It was hell before and it was hell after. I feel remorse for falling for the lies and for still have my heart pounding when he is around. I know there are 2 instances where he cried too so I feel remorse for those.
This last week while I was away it was easy to me to forgive the ex for being human and I kind of forgot about him. Unwillingly I get glimpses of his new life (hard not to when he is the soul of the company, blah blah) and I just don't know when the hell I will find it in my heart to forgive all those instances and forgive myself for not running away the first time he stumbled drunk at home. And for being so bad at breakups. And for being in high doses of antidepressants and still find he "gets" me.
I have so much work to do... yet in some sick sense it was good all this happened, now I get a more clear picture of the road ahead........ thank you all for your insights, Ago I agree with you, it seems for him there was nothing to be regretful about. I don't try to figure out madmen, I am not sure why i am so fixed up in figuring out this one. Perhaps because at first he was such a great person. If he had shown his stuff the first time, well then its easy to get away, or to say "I knew this from Day 1, this is expected".
Watching an alcoholic's quick progression sucks and it also sucks, to remember who you were before and then see who you are now... I became a grinch, loner, totally unmotivated and my real remorse is to abandon myself continually and keep on comin up with reasons why it didnt work... hahha!! as if I had a role in the first place........
Thanks for letting me vent and for your time
Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: London
Posts: 145
TC I would just like to say a massive thank you for this thread. And a massive thank you to all you recovering alcoholics who, little by little with every post, have helped me realise there is no point in me sitting there waiting for an apology from my ex boyfriend. TC I think it was you who in this thread (Sorry if it wasn't - but someone wrote this!) said they were sitting there thinking what if he manages to stop drinking for his next partner. That is exactly like me. Sitting there thinking how heartbroken I am already to think everything he said to me over three years meant nothing, only for him to find 'true love' with the girl he's with now. But in reality I know he can't be without alcohol. He doesn't even want to give it up or get a job. He couldn't be there for his own two children so why would he kick it for some woman with four children who he's only been seeing for a few weeks.
Anyway TC you have been of immense support to me since I joined this website a week ago. You continue to be. In a weird way, knowing he isn't sitting there regretting the way he finished with me has kind of helped. In a kind of 'Well he's not worried about me so why the hell should I waste my time on him?' For any of you who have seen my post and know my story, (The thread Can't stop crying...) well I am still crying but the tears are drying up. Tomorrow morning I am leaving for a four day holiday on my own to Bournemouth. I have packed a good novel, but also Co-Dependent No More. Which I will read throughout the week. I also looked up the nearest Al Anon meeting where I will be holidaying. This will be my first meeting but as I've the time to kill, I'm going. I will continue my Al Anon meetings on my return to the Midlands next week. Tomorrow is the first day of the rest of my life. Good luck to you all
Anyway TC you have been of immense support to me since I joined this website a week ago. You continue to be. In a weird way, knowing he isn't sitting there regretting the way he finished with me has kind of helped. In a kind of 'Well he's not worried about me so why the hell should I waste my time on him?' For any of you who have seen my post and know my story, (The thread Can't stop crying...) well I am still crying but the tears are drying up. Tomorrow morning I am leaving for a four day holiday on my own to Bournemouth. I have packed a good novel, but also Co-Dependent No More. Which I will read throughout the week. I also looked up the nearest Al Anon meeting where I will be holidaying. This will be my first meeting but as I've the time to kill, I'm going. I will continue my Al Anon meetings on my return to the Midlands next week. Tomorrow is the first day of the rest of my life. Good luck to you all
A jug fills drop by drop
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
Thanks for your responses...
sclarke.. thanks a lot for your comments... I am feeling down tonight for some reason and your post helped me a lot !!!
Gosh, when I was with him I sensed he had some self hate issues, but now he shows himself as so happy and content with himself... although I know he is still drinking and not going to AA or anything similar... I just don't get anything but I feel my heart broken again. Sheesh.
Hugs everyone... one day at a time.
sclarke.. thanks a lot for your comments... I am feeling down tonight for some reason and your post helped me a lot !!!
Gosh, when I was with him I sensed he had some self hate issues, but now he shows himself as so happy and content with himself... although I know he is still drinking and not going to AA or anything similar... I just don't get anything but I feel my heart broken again. Sheesh.
Hugs everyone... one day at a time.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: MASSACHUSETTS
Posts: 441
Thank you TakingCharge for a very insightful thread and AGO for your responses.
This is the type of information that is very helpful for me and my recovery. I need a kick in the bu$$ with all my nonsense thinking about the AH and remorse. My thinking tends to keep me stuck because I want him to be remorseful and stop the behavior that will cause him to feel remorse. Plain and simple Stop acting like an A$$ and you will not have to be sorry for your actions later.
His remorse is none of my business. What is my business is if I am going to continue on in a relationship with someone that is actively drinking, regardless of the reason. I need to Focus on me and me only. Keep the great posts coming they help a great deal!!!
Thanks!
This is the type of information that is very helpful for me and my recovery. I need a kick in the bu$$ with all my nonsense thinking about the AH and remorse. My thinking tends to keep me stuck because I want him to be remorseful and stop the behavior that will cause him to feel remorse. Plain and simple Stop acting like an A$$ and you will not have to be sorry for your actions later.
His remorse is none of my business. What is my business is if I am going to continue on in a relationship with someone that is actively drinking, regardless of the reason. I need to Focus on me and me only. Keep the great posts coming they help a great deal!!!
Thanks!
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 11
I'm and addict and alcoholic. I was addicted to painkillers and Xanax (Benzos). I cannot begin to tell you how much remorse I have. I lost the absolute love of my life because of it. I put her through much worry and it tears me apart everytime I think of her.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,372
Welcome to SR bri2u2002
I'm sorry for your loss and for your sense of regret.
I think many of us have lost people we've loved through our actions...
the way I look at it today is some people are only in our lives for a short time...if it hasn't already, time will tell what the situation is with you and your ex.
We can't do anything about whats happened in the past - bit we sure can live right today and make sure we treat the people who love us now and in the future better
D
I'm sorry for your loss and for your sense of regret.
I think many of us have lost people we've loved through our actions...
the way I look at it today is some people are only in our lives for a short time...if it hasn't already, time will tell what the situation is with you and your ex.
We can't do anything about whats happened in the past - bit we sure can live right today and make sure we treat the people who love us now and in the future better
D
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