Is alcoholism a disease?
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 1,924
I believe it is a disease as well, though like Carol, whether it is or not, I no longer drink. In reference to the AMA determining Alcoholism as a disease as a "loose interpretation of an archaic disease model", I am confused. Of course, I do not know enough to do more than use bandaids, though I have had delusions of being a Doctor on TV.
"In 1956, the American Medical Association (AMA) stated alcoholism was a disease, as it met the five criteria needed in order to be considered a disease: pattern of symptoms, chronic, progression, subject to relapse, and treatability."
"disease /dis·ease/ (dĭ-zēz´) any deviation from or interruption of the normal structure or function of any body part, organ, or system that is manifested by a characteristic set of symptoms and signs and whose etiology, pathology, and prognosis may be known or unknown."
"In 1956, the American Medical Association (AMA) stated alcoholism was a disease, as it met the five criteria needed in order to be considered a disease: pattern of symptoms, chronic, progression, subject to relapse, and treatability."
"disease /dis·ease/ (dĭ-zēz´) any deviation from or interruption of the normal structure or function of any body part, organ, or system that is manifested by a characteristic set of symptoms and signs and whose etiology, pathology, and prognosis may be known or unknown."
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: palma de mallorca
Posts: 16
Very good definiton Rufus! But then, if it is a disease, we choose to have? Normaly you do not choose to have a disease... That is what makes to me nonsense. I suppose nobody has been forced to start drinking....
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,876
I do not believe alcoholism is a disease...I agree with Eroica...unhealthy behavior that leads to an addiction.
The history of how the AMA was influenced into adopting the disease model is a very interesting read. The AMA also considers smoking the same kind of disease.....
From: John McC.
> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 12:58 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Contact Us: About the AMA, Other
>
> The following information was submitted:
>
> Comment: By what criteria does the AMA base their
> "endorsement" of
> alcoholism/drug addiction as being a "disease" in? I
> would like to know
> HOW "addiction" meets the criteria for
> classification as a "disease".
Subject: RE: Contact Us: About the AMA, Other
> Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 12:26:22 -0500
> From: "USC-AmerMedAssn"
> To: "John
>
> Linda Rashid, Communications Coordinator for the
> American Medical
> Association Unified Service Center, is responding to
> your email inquiry.
>
> Thank you for contacting the American Medical
> Association regarding
> alcoholism as a disease.
>
> We do consider alcoholism to be a disease. Chain
> smoking is a behavior
> resulting from nicotine addiction which we also
> consider to be a
> disease, as is other drug dependence — more properly
> called substance
> use disorders. There are a wide array of levels of
> problems related to
> use of alcohol and other drugs, some of which are
> primarily behavioral,
> others involve physical and psychological
> dependence.
The history of how the AMA was influenced into adopting the disease model is a very interesting read. The AMA also considers smoking the same kind of disease.....
From: John McC.
> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 12:58 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Contact Us: About the AMA, Other
>
> The following information was submitted:
>
> Comment: By what criteria does the AMA base their
> "endorsement" of
> alcoholism/drug addiction as being a "disease" in? I
> would like to know
> HOW "addiction" meets the criteria for
> classification as a "disease".
Subject: RE: Contact Us: About the AMA, Other
> Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 12:26:22 -0500
> From: "USC-AmerMedAssn"
> To: "John
>
> Linda Rashid, Communications Coordinator for the
> American Medical
> Association Unified Service Center, is responding to
> your email inquiry.
>
> Thank you for contacting the American Medical
> Association regarding
> alcoholism as a disease.
>
> We do consider alcoholism to be a disease. Chain
> smoking is a behavior
> resulting from nicotine addiction which we also
> consider to be a
> disease, as is other drug dependence — more properly
> called substance
> use disorders. There are a wide array of levels of
> problems related to
> use of alcohol and other drugs, some of which are
> primarily behavioral,
> others involve physical and psychological
> dependence.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,055
unhealthy behavior that leads to an addiction
Living in sobriety
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,870
Hi Iriss, just thought you might like to hear a piece from the bb to get all views...hope it helps...
A.A's early understanding of alcoholism came from Dr. William Duncan Silkworth, who
viewed alcoholism as a manifestation of allergy. As in “The Doctor’s Opinion”
introduction to Alcoholics Anonymous, what A.A. learned from Dr. Silkworth was that:
.
Alcoholic anonymous the doctors opinion page xxiv
A.A's early understanding of alcoholism came from Dr. William Duncan Silkworth, who
viewed alcoholism as a manifestation of allergy. As in “The Doctor’s Opinion”
introduction to Alcoholics Anonymous, what A.A. learned from Dr. Silkworth was that:
.
. . the body of the alcoholic is quite as abnormal as his mind. It does not satisfy us to
be told that we cannot control our drinking just because we were maladjusted to life, that
we were in full flight from reality, or were outright mental defectives. These things were
true to some extent, in fact, to a considerable extent with some of us. But we are sure that
our bodies were sickened as well. In our belief, any picture of the alcoholic which leaves
out this physical factor is incomplete.
The doctor's theory that we have a kind of allergy to alcohol interests us. As laymen,
our opinion as to its soundness may, of course, mean little. But as ex-problem drinkers, we can
say that his explanation makes good sense. It explains many things for which we cannot
otherwise account.
be told that we cannot control our drinking just because we were maladjusted to life, that
we were in full flight from reality, or were outright mental defectives. These things were
true to some extent, in fact, to a considerable extent with some of us. But we are sure that
our bodies were sickened as well. In our belief, any picture of the alcoholic which leaves
out this physical factor is incomplete.
The doctor's theory that we have a kind of allergy to alcohol interests us. As laymen,
our opinion as to its soundness may, of course, mean little. But as ex-problem drinkers, we can
say that his explanation makes good sense. It explains many things for which we cannot
otherwise account.
Alcoholic anonymous the doctors opinion page xxiv
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 679
People keep bringing up the book Beyond the Influence. In fact quotes from its predecessor are all over this site: Under the Influence. I ordered Beyond the Influence a while ago and hadn't picked it up yet. I just looked at it and you can imagine my disappointment that the two primary authors of a book arguing for alcoholism as a medical disease are just that— authors. Katherine Ketcham is a non-fiction writer and has been her whole life and William Ashbury is a journalist. There are two other authors tagged on there, both addiciton field, one in the alternative medicine field albeit with a PhD links to Harvard, etc, whatever that means. However, this is supposedly a medical book with no MDs, barely a Phd, no scientists, what? I don't know. I haven't read it but it makes me a skeptic.
I then just looked at a review on the LifeRing site:
Beyond the Influence
It seems that Under the Influence was the book I should have bought, although should I really, things have changed a lot in 20 years, too bad Dr. Milam is no longer around to have written a better, more probing, and groundbreaking sequel.
I then just looked at a review on the LifeRing site:
Beyond the Influence
It seems that Under the Influence was the book I should have bought, although should I really, things have changed a lot in 20 years, too bad Dr. Milam is no longer around to have written a better, more probing, and groundbreaking sequel.
Knucklehead
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,005
Originally Posted by sfgirl 
Thanks for the link!
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
:The fact is we are all here to explore and share
It's best to share what is working for you.
I don't think anyone said either "Under" or "Beyond" was
a medical book.
Yes! I did stop drinking it 20+ years ago after I read "Under"
that is what I share about on SR and in person.
...Before decideing about books..
reading is recommended.
It's best to share what is working for you.
I don't think anyone said either "Under" or "Beyond" was
a medical book.
Yes! I did stop drinking it 20+ years ago after I read "Under"
that is what I share about on SR and in person.
...Before decideing about books..reading is recommended.
Eclectics Anonymous
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 286
I personally don't believe it is a disease. I believe it was something that I did with full knowledge of the eventual consequences and chose to do it anyway. I knew my families genetic history and the probable outcome and still did it. I knew when I had reached that point where I could stop and not become an alcoholic and I still did it. It wasn't because I had a disease it was simply because I felt like it.
I also think about this in terms of drug addiction. Everyone knows that if you shoot heroin you will become addicted to it.... so why start?
The disease concept always confuses me in that if some do believe it is a disease then I find the cure to be very strange. If someone posted on here my wife has cancer and is throwing up blood, behaving erratically, and in an immense amount of physical pain but I am sick of dealing with this and am going to ignore it. We would all say "are you crazy?" Get your arse home and call 911. However, if it is an alcoholic them prescription is let them drink till they hit some imaginary bottom. We wouldn't let cancer progress until it reached a bottom.
I have congenital health problems that I have to deal with every single day of my life and I in no way think I can compare the two as being in the same boat. Alcohol was a choice I made. I didn't choose the health problems I have.
I have a raging migraine so I apologize if my thoughts are not the most cogent at the moment.
I also think about this in terms of drug addiction. Everyone knows that if you shoot heroin you will become addicted to it.... so why start?
The disease concept always confuses me in that if some do believe it is a disease then I find the cure to be very strange. If someone posted on here my wife has cancer and is throwing up blood, behaving erratically, and in an immense amount of physical pain but I am sick of dealing with this and am going to ignore it. We would all say "are you crazy?" Get your arse home and call 911. However, if it is an alcoholic them prescription is let them drink till they hit some imaginary bottom. We wouldn't let cancer progress until it reached a bottom.
I have congenital health problems that I have to deal with every single day of my life and I in no way think I can compare the two as being in the same boat. Alcohol was a choice I made. I didn't choose the health problems I have.
I have a raging migraine so I apologize if my thoughts are not the most cogent at the moment.
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,861
I like the disease concept. Perform a few actions on a daily basis and keep it in remission. This doesn't interfere with my life, on the contrary it allows me to have one worth living.
Anyway, that is just my two cents. To make a long rant short, I don't care if it is a disease, I am recovered from whatever it is, but I will have it until I die ( contradiction? I think not!)
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 679
Originally Posted by CarolD
:The fact is we are all here to explore and share
It's best to share what is working for you.
I don't think anyone said either "Under" or "Beyond" was
a medical book.
Yes! I did stop drinking it 20+ years ago after I read "Under"
that is what I share about on SR and in person.
...Before decideing about books..
reading is recommended.
It's best to share what is working for you.
I don't think anyone said either "Under" or "Beyond" was
a medical book.
Yes! I did stop drinking it 20+ years ago after I read "Under"
that is what I share about on SR and in person.
...Before decideing about books..reading is recommended.
While I totally understand we are all here to explore and share what is working and I don't want to take away from something that can be really helpful to someone, I fully believe everyone has their own path, and I really don't care whether someone believes if it is a disease or not. I mean I don't even know if I think it is one or not. I probably think it contains components of a disease but that does not fully explain it (by disease here I mean biological factors).
However, I do believe it is really important to know where your information is coming from. Of course I can't judge something that I haven't read. But I can judge someone's qualifications to write a book on a topic. "Under" was written by a doctor with the help of Keetcham. The doctor was a maverick in the addiction field and was presenting groundbreaking premises twenty years ago. "Beyond" did not have an authority like its prequel. It is hard therefore for me to lend the same weight to its information when I read it as I would to say diClemente, who is a professor of psychology at University of Maryland and has been studying and publishing on addiction for decades. When one is in the academic/research community and running their own experiments one is up to speed on all the new theories and will have to reconcile them. You know, I think I am a pretty good researcher and I am sure Keetcham is, but I would never think that I could write a better book on the link between say smoking and cancer or I don't know vaccines and autism than a doctor who had been working in those respective fields for decades. With such a controversial subject, that creates such divergent opinions even in the addiction community, I think that I really would appreciate a true authority and think it is dangerous when non-authorities manage to pass themselves off as such.
Today's Muse
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West end
Posts: 1,081
Whatever it is, I've got it. I can't drink. If I don't drink it can't progress, but don't let that fool you. It does lay dormant and if you pick up again your drinking progresses in an astonishing way. There is no cure, but there is a solution. I'm grateful to have found it. Disease, addiction, sickness, malady, allergy, weakness, it doesn't really matter. What matters is getting and staying sober.
Living in sobriety
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,870
on a lighter note I once heard a guy ask an alcoholic would he like a drink ............"Im allergic to alcohol, I wake up in spots" the alcoholic replied.
"oh dear, what kind of spots" the guy asked
The alcoholic answered "oh you know , park bench, strange beds, police cell . etc"
"oh dear, what kind of spots" the guy asked
The alcoholic answered "oh you know , park bench, strange beds, police cell . etc"
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 185
[QUOTE=sfgirl;2126972]CarolD—
However, I do believe it is really important to know where your information is coming from. Of course I can't judge something that I haven't read. But I can judge someone's qualifications to write a book on a topic. "Under" was written by a doctor with the help of Keetcham. The doctor was a maverick in the addiction field and was presenting groundbreaking premises twenty years ago. "Beyond" did not have an authority like its prequel. It is hard therefore for me to lend the same weight to its information when I read it as I would to say diClemente, who is a professor of psychology at University of Maryland and has been studying and publishing on addiction for decades. csuch -QUOTE]
Hi SFgirl, I really appreciate your response, and if you wouldnt mind me adding to that... I must have collected about 15 books on addiction, alcohoism etc... I dont really give much weight to how qualified the author is before I read a book, to me experience would come before academic understanding of acoholism and addiction. I would much rather listen to someone with first hand experience who has overcome it, than somone who hasnt.. Thats just my opinion, but as I am so early in recovery, I might yet change my thinking.. Thankyou it was helpful
However, I do believe it is really important to know where your information is coming from. Of course I can't judge something that I haven't read. But I can judge someone's qualifications to write a book on a topic. "Under" was written by a doctor with the help of Keetcham. The doctor was a maverick in the addiction field and was presenting groundbreaking premises twenty years ago. "Beyond" did not have an authority like its prequel. It is hard therefore for me to lend the same weight to its information when I read it as I would to say diClemente, who is a professor of psychology at University of Maryland and has been studying and publishing on addiction for decades. csuch -QUOTE]
Hi SFgirl, I really appreciate your response, and if you wouldnt mind me adding to that... I must have collected about 15 books on addiction, alcohoism etc... I dont really give much weight to how qualified the author is before I read a book, to me experience would come before academic understanding of acoholism and addiction. I would much rather listen to someone with first hand experience who has overcome it, than somone who hasnt.. Thats just my opinion, but as I am so early in recovery, I might yet change my thinking.. Thankyou it was helpful
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
sfgirl....
There are SR members who have used either or both
"Under" and "Beyond" to their advantage.
I think it's important for members to know
those books have helped other people.
I used the eating plan + supplements in 'Under"
for about 6 months in my early sobriety.
That worked quite well for me.
Your research may be valuable for members too.
I certainly hope so. How has it helped you?
I sure hope everyone finds a healthy joy filled life.
There are SR members who have used either or both
"Under" and "Beyond" to their advantage.
I think it's important for members to know
those books have helped other people.
I used the eating plan + supplements in 'Under"
for about 6 months in my early sobriety.
That worked quite well for me.
Your research may be valuable for members too.
I certainly hope so. How has it helped you?
I sure hope everyone finds a healthy joy filled life.
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