Tomas

This is in response to the many comments made relating to Do or Die...I posted it separately not to get buried in the response section..The area is to important.

I found that in regards to alcoholism..."Kindness can kill"...Some are looking for finding that person or those persons "who feel more sorry for them than they do for thmselves"... It has a certain seductivenesss to it...and will drink till they find that impossible situation... baiting those who will even listen..I've seen it over and over again..that leads right to the grave...One way to illecit sympathy is to fail..someone will be around to pick you up... the immaturity...LOOKING FOR MOMMY

Most practicing alcoholics...many here....(that's why I posted in this forum.)..need shocking bluntness..the stark naked truth...to find the weakness in their armor of closemindedness, dishonesty and lack of commitment.. Many who are suffering from alcoholism need o be hit with a 2 by 4 to have the light of reason enter into their spirit..Like jump starting an engine into action so to speak...a splash of cold water thrown in their face..

I think also, there are probably many here who play games..I call it the U-Tube comment phenonom...deluding others and self as well...There is a certain seductive quality to that activity..Oh I've tested that theory...it's fun...Watch a video on U-Tube in a area of " having no prior knowledge"...learn the gist of the comments...and based upon that criteria only...enter your own..anyone reading might even think you are quite the expert... an afficianato...I got a "plus two rating" on one of my comments..knowing absolutly nothing...That of course is part of the phenonom and challenge of message boarding unfortunately... .one is un-accountable because they are unreachable..and untouchable..The game is to kill the messager..by joining the choir...THAT IS EXACTLY WHY I QUALIFY THE LENGTH OF MY SOBRIETY..Certainly not to impress anyone here or at a meeting...My mind doesn't work in that direction.. like some I've read believe.."perhaps if they looked at themselves..deep down a bit envious"..To busy with my daily affairs...Knowing that now...I recognize that if I message...I'm also dealing with the KOOK FACTOR...it goes with the territory..

But many who are afflicted with this illness, do not realize the clock is ticking..an NOW...Be discriminating and listen to people with experience...Don't give up..THAT"S THE MESSAGE OF THE POST

The comment of the guy who said he'd rather drink...then listen to whatever?...That empty headedness is also part of my EXPERIENCE...I generally offer them a buck or two and say "let me buy you a drink.".You get no smpathy from me..My job is to put it out there..whether you lick it up is your business..My first taste of humility was in the realiation that I was LUCKY to be in the room for a second meeting. That was the gift a gift from God..the awakening of Truth...The awakening to the start of a sober life..

Tomas
sobriety date..Jan 12, 1974
"Sailing my boat around the Word...Happy, Joyous and Free...but accountable to the still suffering alcoholic

least

..............whatever.............

RufusACanal

I have read each of your posts Tomas. Undoubtedly, you have some idea of the planned program of action as outlined in the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous and your proclaimed sobriety of some 34 years is an accomplishment; my hat is off to you. Newcomers to AA in 2009 from my experience, unlike when you and I came to AA in the 1970's, will not tolerate the baseball bat approach to a New Life. Maybe willingness and acceptance was easier for a multitude of reasons back then; today it is different. As much as I have tried the old hardcore way, it fails and puts the newcomer off. I have to extend myself like never before and I am grateful for the necessity of change; it forces me to look beyond my little stockpile of knowledge and ask God more readily for the power to make change. Verbally beating folks for not agreeing with your belief system serves no one here. No one is the master of AA. I do understand the frustration you have expressed, but I do not agree with the method you use for delivery. Ego does not shrink or fade away with the last drink; even working the Steps does not guarantee the end of an overinflated ego. Prayer, service in love and tolerance will see you through anything, even SR. If I can help you or anyone else, you can email me at your convenience. Best to you!

least

I am not an atheist, but rather a desperate agnostic. I want to believe in a God of love. Tomas, ask your Christ when was the last time He used a 2x4 to convince anyone of His love. Hatred fuels hatred. Love fuels love. I want to love, not hit or hate anyone. I am trying to love you, despite your 'tough love' approach. The Beatles had it right when they said "love is all you need". I don't think God could have said it any better.:ghug3

Toomutch

Tomas - why do you feel the need to seek so much negetive attention? You have now posted the same thing on 2 seperate threads. I find myself wondering if you were hit in the head with a 2 x 4.

SavageHurricane

My unqualified opinion is that it's different strokes for different folks.

All my failings (in real life) have been kept utterly private. I have lived alone for a good chunk of my life and those failings have included things like OD'ing on painkillers and locking myself away for three days vomitting and in pain. I was trying to kill myself and it didn't work. I survived it but I didn't have anyone around to "pick me up" and I didn't phone anyone for help.

Same with my drinking. I don't have the courage to let anyone know (in real life) that I'm failing and need some help.

I am trying to reach out on here. And I have posted my failings out of honesty because it makes me sick to see so many people be so encouraging and posting responses to me and then have me waste all that encouragement and not succeed.

But I'm going to try again.

That's just my two cents worth.

least

We, most of us, are here to help the newcomer, not to fight, but there are some who feel the need to beat us over the head with their 'truth'. I'm sorry you enountered such animosity, but this is not the purpose here. I'm sorry you met such hostility. this is not the usual way here.

zoomer

I'v been beat up enough when I was out there thank you very much! Kindness is what made me come back to recovery and stay with it. Tough love made me angry and cry and was no use to me at all. Maybe it made the other person feel better and that is why it was useful.

Tomas

My job is to carry the message..AND be prepared to defend it...that may be termed integrity...Rufus as I've read said nothing..just a hum drum pontification... with a few egos... thrown in..a favorite for alcoholic argument when one has nothing to say...You are right in zero respects Too Much:...and your quote is a bit squawed: The quote is..."Evil prevails when good men stand around and do nothing... That's precisely why I take action..."More time on the nearby Ski slopes and less time with convoluted rationalization will do you good" LOL

Not looking for friends here..just looking to maybe save a few lives...My opinion of most gets...lower and lower..The replies sillier and sillier...As long as I feel I have something to say based upon sharing "strength hope and experience" I shall carry on..until they pull the plug or I feel it's just a hopeless case a waste of time...I just tell it like it is..Maybe improve the statistics..a bit..And that's 35 Rufus... "The poor soul cannot even count" LOL

SavageHurricane

Tomas

Then why don't you direct your helpful posts on a more personal level, tailor made, so to speak, in the threads where people are asking for help?

I just don't understand the broad blanket approach to your posts and I don't understand what you're trying to achieve.

Some people may need a slap once in a while, I know I do... but it has to suit the occassion rather than just a broad sweeping slap to everyone.

RufusACanal

I have been called worse by many. Here is something that helps me Tomas, best to you.


"We have three little mottoes which are apropos. Here they are:

First Things First

Live and Let Live

Easy Does It"

lizw

I've just read through the other thread and some of it got me laughing.

I think a lot of it is just a reaction to the idea that as alcoholics it is impossible for us to 'cure ourselves'. This is why I believe AA may not work for a lot of people. I mean come on, who really wants to surrender? Who wants to admit complete defeat and become dependent on something we can't see? (A higher power) It goes against every human emotion we have and the need to be independent.

This may seem a paradox since this thread is titled accountability but I think it is the truth. Recovery is full of paradoxs.

I am also rather disgusted that members think it is ok to resort to name calling or personal insults towards another member, who has been sober at least 10 times longer than any of us.

Please, have some respect.
And if your response to this request, is why should I when he has none for us (or me) and you are coming on here and struggling with staying sober, you may want to examine that attitude - it may have something to do with it.

Dee74

I - respectfully - disagree Liz.
Respect is earned.

And being sober, IMO, does not absolve us of our responsibility to work on other character flaws...self included.

D

bugsworth

Interesting perspective lizw. I for one do not struggle with sobriety nor do I believe it is impossible to "cure ourselves." As far as respect I was always taught it needs to be earned. That is not to confuse respect with being respectful...One can act in a respectful manner without having a shred of respect for the person they are dealing with...maybe we are really talking about manners. LOL

Rufus you forgot "Don't drink even if your a$$ falls off" LOL That is my favorite...it works if you work it!

Tommyh

thank you Liz
when I resort to name calling or throwing insults at someone,it is just a sign of MY immaturity.These 2 threads by Tomas remind me of how I used to react to guys and gals like Tomas.I resorted to name calling,insults,etc.I was refusing to grow up and take on responsibility for my life and the things I should be doing.I was still playing the little helpless victim,trying to dodge accountably
and
I did not show anyone any respect in life until AA taught me how to.It is in the giving of respect that one gets more respectful of others.If no one ever respects me,thats fine,that does not change the fact I should be respectful of them.

CarolD

Let's all chill please

Thank you

doorknob

Rejecting dogma has nothing to do with accountability.

Tommyh

good advice Carol
it`s time for a glass of iced tea

Tommyh

knob,I`m really not interested in your remarks about my experience,which you know nothing much about

ReneeS

The original poster's threads are just aggravating to me at this point. If his view of helping (hit 'em with a 2 by 4) was the predominant view on this site, I'd go running in the opposite direction. I work in the mental health field where I counsel people of all ages with a variety of mental health and drug and alcohol problems. If I was as rigid and condescending as the original poster comes across, my patients would not listen to me or respect me, or come to me when they needed help. Yes, there are times when an addict does need tough love, and to be confronted with their self-destructive behavior and game playing. But they will only listen to what you have to say after you've earned their respect and gone the extra mile to let them know you empathize with them and care about them.