How long do you have to drink before you're an alcoholic?
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Tazman, thanks for your response.
Yes, I've heard so often that the alcoholic must reach his/her bottom. I guess what TryingSoHard is saying is also true. You drink because you're depressed and then you end up more depressed from the alcohol.
Is Detox enough to help you quit? Is AA absolutely necessary?
Too bad some alcoholics can't see that they have reached their "Rock Bottom". I've heard that's denial. Wow, this disease surely plays tricks on one's mind!
I'm trying hard not to enable ...but it hurts to see someone destroying themselves, even killing themselves!
I am grateful that I'm in an Alanon group. I learned so much there....
Yes, I've heard so often that the alcoholic must reach his/her bottom. I guess what TryingSoHard is saying is also true. You drink because you're depressed and then you end up more depressed from the alcohol.
Is Detox enough to help you quit? Is AA absolutely necessary?
Too bad some alcoholics can't see that they have reached their "Rock Bottom". I've heard that's denial. Wow, this disease surely plays tricks on one's mind!
I'm trying hard not to enable ...but it hurts to see someone destroying themselves, even killing themselves!
I am grateful that I'm in an Alanon group. I learned so much there....
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You drink because you're depressed and then you end up more depressed from the alcohol.
Depression came as my alcoholism progressed, before that point I drank if I was happy, if I was sad, if it was Tuesday, that was enough of a reason to drink. The last 5 years of my drinking the only releif I got in life was due to drinking.
Alcohol is a depressant, I became depressed due to my drinking, and in the end drank trying to rid myself of the depression just to get even more depressed.
Is Detox enough to help you quit? Is AA absolutely necessary?
The main thing I got out of detox was the following "If you want a CHANCE to stay sober long term then you need to go to at least 90 AA meetings in 90 days and get a sponsor."
The day I got out of detox I felt like I was going insane, I needed a drink, for me that was the only way to keep from going crazy. Some how I managed to not buy any booze until I went to my AA meeting that evening.
I highly reccommend that you read at least "Beyond the Influence", it will give you a bit of insight into the disease of alcoholism.
Is AA needed for me to stay sober? For an alcoholic like me...... YES!!!!! If not AA then some other type of a long term recovery program is needed by an alcoholic to stay sober.
In the book I mentioned it explains the difference between what some call a dry drunk and an alcoholic in recovery.
Recovery is a life long process for an alcoholic, the primary reason is that there is NO CURE for alcoholism! All it takes for many of us is just one drink to lead right back to a full blown relapse.
One of the primary reasons I love AA so much is I am able to help other alcoholics to achieve and maintain sobriety and learn to live life on lifes terms sober & happy.
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Tazman 53,
Again, thanks for your concise answers. I have two family members who are alcoholics...only one has admitted that he is. The other is in denial.
The one, who has admitted he is an addict, has gone to AA, but it hasn't been that consistent. I suppose I should be grateful that he has taken a tiny step.
His sponsor told me that he may have to fall further to his "rock bottom". Wow, I can't imagine how much more rock bottom he can get.
I go to Alanon and I've learned all about enabling. However, it's very hard to watch someone destroy himself. It's hard to sit back, take care of me, and realize I can only control me. I want so much to shake some sense into my two alcoholics!
Your answers have been helping me.
Thank you.
Again, thanks for your concise answers. I have two family members who are alcoholics...only one has admitted that he is. The other is in denial.
The one, who has admitted he is an addict, has gone to AA, but it hasn't been that consistent. I suppose I should be grateful that he has taken a tiny step.
His sponsor told me that he may have to fall further to his "rock bottom". Wow, I can't imagine how much more rock bottom he can get.
I go to Alanon and I've learned all about enabling. However, it's very hard to watch someone destroy himself. It's hard to sit back, take care of me, and realize I can only control me. I want so much to shake some sense into my two alcoholics!
Your answers have been helping me.
Thank you.
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Originally Posted by Jewels 
Just wonderling, when do the unacceptable symptoms appear with chronic drinkers? After 10 years...20 years???
I'm not talking about binge drinking or that one night drunk, but the drinkers who have been drinking every night for years. I mean those drinkers who held down a job and on the outside world, seemed "normal". I remember being told that I could never make my husband not drink, but someday he would realize it (perhaps when his health began to fail), and then, only then, would he quit. That was 30 years ago. Noone told me that his characacter would change and he would leave me for another woman!!!??? I'm still not sure if the alcohol changed his character, but perhaps he was always a womanizer of sorts.
I go to Alanon....I'm learning to be good to me and have moved on, but I still am curious about how alcohol affects and changes people after years of drinking.
Thanks!
I'm not talking about binge drinking or that one night drunk, but the drinkers who have been drinking every night for years. I mean those drinkers who held down a job and on the outside world, seemed "normal". I remember being told that I could never make my husband not drink, but someday he would realize it (perhaps when his health began to fail), and then, only then, would he quit. That was 30 years ago. Noone told me that his characacter would change and he would leave me for another woman!!!??? I'm still not sure if the alcohol changed his character, but perhaps he was always a womanizer of sorts.
I go to Alanon....I'm learning to be good to me and have moved on, but I still am curious about how alcohol affects and changes people after years of drinking.
Thanks!
http://www.amazon.com/Under-Influenc.../dp/0553274872
There is a lot of good information in this book, though it is somewhat dated, published in the early 80's. Echoing what others have said, I became a practicing alcoholic the day I took my first drink. How long it takes the disease to progress through stages in the individual varies, but I was probably in stage two headed toward stage 3 when I stopped. BTW, excerpts from this book are posted as stickies in one of the forums.
I'm just a little unwell
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Beyond the Influence is a more recent followup, too. I've heard really good things about it from several people here on the board. I bought it yesterday but haven't started reading it yet.
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How long did it take you to finally stop drinking?
I'm talking about that person who has been drinking for years and the body and spirit needs that alcohol. Tazman says that the majority of alcoholics don't quit. I'm talking about those who realize that they need to quit and finally do.
I'm talking about that person who has been drinking for years and the body and spirit needs that alcohol. Tazman says that the majority of alcoholics don't quit. I'm talking about those who realize that they need to quit and finally do.
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So ...when did you realize that you couldn't go on drinking? Some on this forum say it's when they got really, really depressed.
Is depression the most common reason to quit?
Is depression the most common reason to quit?
Wow, I can't imagine how much more rock bottom he can get.
Locked UP. Jail
Covered UP. Dead
Sobered UP.
It took me to the end. I reached the point I was dying. If I kept drinking I would die and if I tried to stop I would die. But.........................................I wanted to die sober, and put the plug in the jug.
24 hours later, after many heart stoppages throughout the day, they were writing the TOD on my medical chart, after I had been down 28 minutes, when my heart started on it's own. I was given a SECOND chance. Many are not.
Unfortunately, none of us have a Crystal BAll that can say which will find recovery and which will not.
Each individual has to reach their own 'bottom.' Many do not have to take it as far as I did, many do.
All one can do, be they the alcoholic or the family or friend of one is focus on one's self. I know I cannot fix another. I cannot cure another. All I can do is share what it took for me to find recovery and then how I worked that recovery and how I LIVE that recovery today.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
P.S. I drank for 24 years and about 23 of those was alcoholically. I was 3 weeks shy of my 36th birthday when I hit my bottom, the last year and a a half of my drinking, I LIVED on the Streets of Hollyweird. Each of us is DIFFERENT while being the same. Oh and BTW I didn't drink because I was 'depressed.' I LOVED alcohol. I loved the taste of it, the smell of it, what it did to me and what it did for me. (Took me to a reality much different from the real world).
I'm just a little unwell
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Originally Posted by Jewels
How long did it take you to finally stop drinking?
I'm talking about that person who has been drinking for years and the body and spirit needs that alcohol. Tazman says that the majority of alcoholics don't quit. I'm talking about those who realize that they need to quit and finally do.
I'm talking about that person who has been drinking for years and the body and spirit needs that alcohol. Tazman says that the majority of alcoholics don't quit. I'm talking about those who realize that they need to quit and finally do.
I knew in my heart that I had a problem for probably the last year that I drank. I wasn't ready to try to do anything about it for several more months. Then, slowly, I'd start telling myself that I wasn't going to QUIT, but I was going to get control back. And then every day that I'd tell myself, "I'm not going to drink tonight" I'd sure as heck wind up drinking that night. A few shorts months of that showed me that I could not do this by myself and that things were WAY more out of control than I thought. I got scared. I got worried about my health. I got worried about my sanity. I got worried about what I was doing to my life, my family, my everything.
So what did I do? Cried about it over another bottle of vodka.
In August 2008 I finally decided to try to quit and that's when I found SR. I think it still took me a few weeks to be SERIOUS about it, though, and for about 7 weeks I cut my drinking back significantly but always went back to it. I didn't want to be sober more than I wanted to cling to the illusion that I could drink. Once I told my husband about my problem (I was a secret drinker), I only relapsed once. I've been sober since October 1, 2008.
I think I'm pretty lucky overall.
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Originally Posted by Jewels
How long did it take you to finally stop drinking?
I'm talking about that person who has been drinking for years and the body and spirit needs that alcohol. Tazman says that the majority of alcoholics don't quit. I'm talking about those who realize that they need to quit and finally do.
I'm talking about that person who has been drinking for years and the body and spirit needs that alcohol. Tazman says that the majority of alcoholics don't quit. I'm talking about those who realize that they need to quit and finally do.
I hope your friend doesn't have to reach a 'bottom'.. many have to, to quit. Many continue drinking and die.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
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It took me 4 years to actually quit....after my decision
was made to do so. However...I was sober about 80%
of those 4 years.
There is simply no time line that fits each person.
IMO
I finally quit after reading "Under The Influence" in '89.
By re-connecting with God and committing to AA...
.I've recovered....
was made to do so. However...I was sober about 80%
of those 4 years.
There is simply no time line that fits each person.
IMO
I finally quit after reading "Under The Influence" in '89.
By re-connecting with God and committing to AA...
.I've recovered....
Last edited by CarolD; 01-18-2009 at 01:57 PM. Reason: Typo
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Thank you so much for sharing your experiences. I remember growing up without any alcohol in the house. Noone drank and it was a silent tabu to drink. I was led to believe that alcohol simply wasn't OK, but I didn't see the results of what alcohol can do first hand. Again, I simply knew that somehow alcohol wasn't good and "bad things" could happen. Then I met my then future husband. He drank and I didn't see anything wrong with him. He was, I thought, hard working, seemed in control and "fun". His personality changed, as far as I noticed, after decades. He became angry, it seemed, all the time. I 'm divorced from him now, but I really think he projected all his anger towards me. This anger and depression are the main products that I saw. Now that I'm more educated re' alcohol, I think that the anger and depression is the result of 30 years of drinking everynight....and later, drinking even more, but still hanging on to a good job. So now I know why I grew up with loving parents who taught me that drinking was tabu......only wish I was educated to know exactly how it warps the body and soul. I had to see the results with my own eyes when I saw my husband's personality change and he become a Dr. Jeckle and Mr. Hyde (sp?).
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In the AA Big Book (the Drs opinion) it explains that the criteria for being an alcoholic is this- When you take the first drink you immediately want another. You experience the mental obsession (wanting and fiending for a drink) which no normal person would do. The physical craving comes only after you put that first drink in your body. It describes alcoholics as having an allergy to alcohol- the abnormal reaction. A "normal drinker" would be able to have a drink or two and put it down, and that would be it, but for the alcoholic one is too many and a thousand is never enough.
For as far as how long it takes to quit drinking,that is up to the alcoholic. Nobody can make that choice for another, it has to be the alcoholics choice. To what length are they willing to go? How free do they want to be? If they can go to meetings, not drink in between meetings, find a sponsor, work the steps, find a home group, and follow the things that are suggested in the AA program of recovery, then they have a very good chance of making it. Relapse does not have to be part of the program.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that AA is the only way to achieve sobriety, but it is definitely a program that works, but only if the alcoholic works it.
I hope that this helped some, very good topic!
Source:Alcoholics Anonymous
1st Edition
_____________________________________
Nikki
"That's just my opinion, but I could be wrong."
For as far as how long it takes to quit drinking,that is up to the alcoholic. Nobody can make that choice for another, it has to be the alcoholics choice. To what length are they willing to go? How free do they want to be? If they can go to meetings, not drink in between meetings, find a sponsor, work the steps, find a home group, and follow the things that are suggested in the AA program of recovery, then they have a very good chance of making it. Relapse does not have to be part of the program.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that AA is the only way to achieve sobriety, but it is definitely a program that works, but only if the alcoholic works it.
I hope that this helped some, very good topic!
Source:Alcoholics Anonymous
1st Edition
_____________________________________
Nikki
"That's just my opinion, but I could be wrong."
Last edited by CarolD; 01-20-2009 at 09:17 PM. Reason: Added Source
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I agree, WORKING THE STEPS is so important for both AA and Alanon members. The slogans, too, have helped me! From what I hear from you, however, someone, who drinks for 20 + years, could be considered an abusive drinker rather than an alcoholic? It's that "physical craving" that divides the alcoholic from the abusive drinker? You're saying the alcoholic never has enough alcohol and the abusive drinker can stop drinking? Eventually, both kinds of drinkers do hurt their body and spirit, don't they? Just some questions that perhaps someone could answer? Thanks.
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According to the BB:
"Moderate drinkers have little trouble in giving up liquor entirely if they have good reason for it. They can take it or leave it alone. Then we have a certain type of hard drinker. He may have the habit badly enough to gradually impair him physically and mentally. It may cause him to die a few years before his time. If a sufficiently strong reason- ill health, falling in love. change of enviroment, or the warning of a doctor- becomes operative, this man can also stop or moderate, although he may find it difficult and troublesome and may even need medical attention." page 20 paragraph 5
"But what about the real alcoholic? He may start off as a moderate drinker; he may or may not become a continuous hard drinker; but a t some stage of his drinking career he begins to lose all control of his liquor consumption, once he starts to drink." page 21 paragraph 1
"Therefore, the main problem of the alcoholic centers in his mind, rather than in his body." page 23paragraph 1 line 3
this is the mental obsession, the "allergy" to alcohol.
"We believe, and so suggested a few years ago. that the action of alcohol on these chronic alcoholics is a manifestation of an allergy; that the phenomenon of craving is limited to this class and never occurs in the average temperate drinker" this is what I was talking about when I said that what defines an alcoholic is when they take that first drink they immediately want another. this is what qualifies the alcoholic. ""They are restless, irritable and discontented, unless they can again experience the sense of ease and comfort which comes at once by taking a few drinks- drinks which they see others taking with impunity. After they have succombed to the desire again, as so many people do, and the phenonmenon of craving develops, they pass through the well known stages of a spree, emerging remorseful, with a firm resolution not to drink. This is repeated over and over, and unless this person can experience and entire psychic change there is very little hope of his recovery." Doctors Opinion xxvi
source:Alcoholics Anonymous
1st Edition
I hope that maybe this helped to clarify things for you, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear with what I was trying to say before.
I have to run right now, there are a few more things I would like to say, but it will have to wait until later...sorry!
__________________________________________________ __________
Nikki
"That's just my opinion, but I could be wrong."
"Moderate drinkers have little trouble in giving up liquor entirely if they have good reason for it. They can take it or leave it alone. Then we have a certain type of hard drinker. He may have the habit badly enough to gradually impair him physically and mentally. It may cause him to die a few years before his time. If a sufficiently strong reason- ill health, falling in love. change of enviroment, or the warning of a doctor- becomes operative, this man can also stop or moderate, although he may find it difficult and troublesome and may even need medical attention." page 20 paragraph 5
"But what about the real alcoholic? He may start off as a moderate drinker; he may or may not become a continuous hard drinker; but a t some stage of his drinking career he begins to lose all control of his liquor consumption, once he starts to drink." page 21 paragraph 1
"Therefore, the main problem of the alcoholic centers in his mind, rather than in his body." page 23paragraph 1 line 3
this is the mental obsession, the "allergy" to alcohol.
"We believe, and so suggested a few years ago. that the action of alcohol on these chronic alcoholics is a manifestation of an allergy; that the phenomenon of craving is limited to this class and never occurs in the average temperate drinker" this is what I was talking about when I said that what defines an alcoholic is when they take that first drink they immediately want another. this is what qualifies the alcoholic. ""They are restless, irritable and discontented, unless they can again experience the sense of ease and comfort which comes at once by taking a few drinks- drinks which they see others taking with impunity. After they have succombed to the desire again, as so many people do, and the phenonmenon of craving develops, they pass through the well known stages of a spree, emerging remorseful, with a firm resolution not to drink. This is repeated over and over, and unless this person can experience and entire psychic change there is very little hope of his recovery." Doctors Opinion xxvi
source:Alcoholics Anonymous
1st Edition
I hope that maybe this helped to clarify things for you, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear with what I was trying to say before.
I have to run right now, there are a few more things I would like to say, but it will have to wait until later...sorry!
__________________________________________________ __________
Nikki
"That's just my opinion, but I could be wrong."
Last edited by CarolD; 01-20-2009 at 09:16 PM. Reason: Added Source
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Huntington, West Virginia
Posts: 11
It varies from state to state...
I know that in my area they say it is only between 2 and 25%, not the greatest.
It all depends on how you work your recovery. As it says in the the AA literature, if you thoroughly follow the path set out before you by AA "rarely have we seen a person fail" . I was always taught that relapse does not have to be part of the program, if you are ready to give it up completely and have no resevations then the sucess rate is increased. Following the suggestions- reading the books, working the steps, going to meetings, working with other alcoholics, getting a sponsor, getting a home group, etc. then the success rate is also increased.
It was explained to me like this- If I were jumping out of an airplane it is suggested that I use the rip-cord provided on my parachute (only a suggestion), it will save my life. That is like AA, I am free falling through my life, by the grace of God I end up in these rooms and am given these suggestions to save my life. AA has been set out before me and it is suggested that if I work this simple program it will save my life, why not follow the suggestions and do so? Countless others have done it before me and lived happy, joyous, and free lives-I want what they have!
I cannot stress the importance of working the steps- this so increases the chance of one staying sober, I mean you could stay sober without doing this, but this is the key to SOBRIETY instead of SODRIETY. Once a person has the spiritual experience and sanity is beginning to be returned, life is amazingly different. No, it's not always rosey and beautiful, but we can then handle the things which used to baffle us. Our HP does something for us that we could not do, and in my experience the desire to use has been lifted, which I honestly never thought was possible, (oddly enough that's what my HP is in the business of doing for me- showing me just how well He does the impossible!)
I hope this helped, sorry for rambling!
__________________________________________________ _____________
Nikki
"That's just my opinion, but I could be wrong."
*All BB quotes taken from the 1st edition.
I know that in my area they say it is only between 2 and 25%, not the greatest.
It all depends on how you work your recovery. As it says in the the AA literature, if you thoroughly follow the path set out before you by AA "rarely have we seen a person fail" . I was always taught that relapse does not have to be part of the program, if you are ready to give it up completely and have no resevations then the sucess rate is increased. Following the suggestions- reading the books, working the steps, going to meetings, working with other alcoholics, getting a sponsor, getting a home group, etc. then the success rate is also increased.
It was explained to me like this- If I were jumping out of an airplane it is suggested that I use the rip-cord provided on my parachute (only a suggestion), it will save my life. That is like AA, I am free falling through my life, by the grace of God I end up in these rooms and am given these suggestions to save my life. AA has been set out before me and it is suggested that if I work this simple program it will save my life, why not follow the suggestions and do so? Countless others have done it before me and lived happy, joyous, and free lives-I want what they have!
I cannot stress the importance of working the steps- this so increases the chance of one staying sober, I mean you could stay sober without doing this, but this is the key to SOBRIETY instead of SODRIETY. Once a person has the spiritual experience and sanity is beginning to be returned, life is amazingly different. No, it's not always rosey and beautiful, but we can then handle the things which used to baffle us. Our HP does something for us that we could not do, and in my experience the desire to use has been lifted, which I honestly never thought was possible, (oddly enough that's what my HP is in the business of doing for me- showing me just how well He does the impossible!)
I hope this helped, sorry for rambling!
__________________________________________________ _____________
Nikki
"That's just my opinion, but I could be wrong."
*All BB quotes taken from the 1st edition.
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Location: Springfield, MA
Posts: 36
Thanks again, Clay. I commend you for sticking to AA and actively working on youself. I too believe that the Higher Power is a big part of your success. I have a family member who is, perhaps at his rock bottom, from my perspective. I've gone to Alanon and have learned to 'let go', but I do pray lots to my Higher Power, hoping that this family member reaches out and grasps all that AA offers. I haven't totally backed away. I've pointed him in the right direction, but he has to take the first giant step instead of wavering. I can't play God and it's hard to let go and watch. I hope things will turn out well, however.
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