Beginning to doubt whether AA is right for me
TruthJustice
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Boondocks
Posts: 112
Originally Posted by tellus 
My own experience: I also started attending AA in January. I really believe it kept me sober during my first few months, and taught me a lot of coping skills. But at six months sober I decided it wasn't for me. I just don't like the attitude of my city's AA. (And not to sound bitter, but all those AA "friends?" Not one call or email since I left. The ones I've talked to face-to-face don't believe me when I say I'm still sober.)
In a nutshell, AA is not for everyone, and is not the only option. It's fantastic for a lot of people, but not all. If it's not your cup of tea, there are lot of other programs out there.
In a nutshell, AA is not for everyone, and is not the only option. It's fantastic for a lot of people, but not all. If it's not your cup of tea, there are lot of other programs out there.
I've tried AA and one meeting I really enjoyed - probably because most people were older (much older) than me and I really had quite a bit of respect for them. They were also very VERY warm, understanding, and friendly.
Another meeting was so large that they passed around a microphone for people to talk so people could here at the other side of the room! I really got nothing from that meeting - I felt like I was at Bingo.
The one meeting I do remember, and it's why I'm posting, is at the end of a meeting guys came around me to welcome me and when they found out I wasn't having the withdrawal symptoms typical of an alcoholic I was shunned. One guy even said, "well you're dressed nice - so things must not be that bad. (What???)
I'm glad for people who find great home groups and stay sober through AA - for me, I didn't like romancing what I couldn't responsibly have. "...but I didn't drink!!!" *clap clap clap* The sad part for me is that, and I'm speaking of my experience, people are rewarded for not drinking - and it becomes more about not drinking than actually living.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: IL
Posts: 108
AA is for people who want it ... not need it.
There may be alcoholism recovery alternatives out there, but I can't speak to them because I haven't tried them. AA works and it works well for me.
Change happened for me once I began taking the steps rather than just talking about how I wanted to or how I would go about it. My ideas, emotions and attitudes were horrible before AA. When the drink was taken away, they were the same. As I was taught and what I came to learn, if you sober up a drunken miserable feeling horse thief, you end up with a miserable feeling horse thief.
When I first arrived, I honed in on hearing things like "Don't pick up that first drink" and "Keep coming back". I never paid attention to hearing, "Read the big book and take the steps". My early meetings consisted of more discussion about what was learned in treatment, how bad I needed a drivers license, and situations that involved spouses or children more than what was experienced in applying and living the AA program. I'm not picking on anyone or any specific group in saying this, because this is exactly what I sought out back then.
I too didn't agree with much of what I jumped ahead & read in the BB. God, inventory, sharing the inventory, more God, make amends, more God. It overwhelmed me. Worse yet, I began to turn back to my old way of thinking. I arranged the steps the way I wanted and worked what I wanted to work as I wanted to work it. You can probably guess the success I had.
If my life we're simply about not drinking, I wouldn't still be in AA. Old Paul cared more about himself than he did you ... my needs always came ahead of yours ... I looked at you in one of two ways ... 1) what were you going to try to do to me or 2) what is it I could get from you. Again, simply removing the drink, was not a solution for me. But neither was attending AA meetings that didn't carry the message of recovery. I HAD to have that. When I once again found myself being sick & tired of being sick & tired, I sought out to find AA's who lived the AA program.
If you want it, it works ... that's all I really do know. But the willingness to do that, must come from within. No one can give it to you. The book makes it pretty clear ... if you want what we have and are willing to any length to get it, then you are ready to take certain steps.
There's no requirement to understand every single word of every single step prior to taking them. You said step 3 is a hard one to get your head around. I understand. But understand this ... step 3 is ONLY about making a decision to turn your will & life over. All the stuff you shared about people, meetings and what ever else, set that to the side ... you're at a crossroads. You've been in AA since January and haven't drank since May, which is great ... but there is more if you truly want it. Up to this point today, based on your own words, you've worked up to step 2. In doing that, you have come to some sort of conception of God as you understand Him (hopefully). If you have done that, then all that remains is making that decision in 3.
I promise you ... if you just take the steps rather than read them & think what ever thoughts you do, you'll honest to God will be amazed at what happens within. More will be revealed ... the first 100 alcoholics that did it, promised it.
There may be alcoholism recovery alternatives out there, but I can't speak to them because I haven't tried them. AA works and it works well for me.
Change happened for me once I began taking the steps rather than just talking about how I wanted to or how I would go about it. My ideas, emotions and attitudes were horrible before AA. When the drink was taken away, they were the same. As I was taught and what I came to learn, if you sober up a drunken miserable feeling horse thief, you end up with a miserable feeling horse thief.
When I first arrived, I honed in on hearing things like "Don't pick up that first drink" and "Keep coming back". I never paid attention to hearing, "Read the big book and take the steps". My early meetings consisted of more discussion about what was learned in treatment, how bad I needed a drivers license, and situations that involved spouses or children more than what was experienced in applying and living the AA program. I'm not picking on anyone or any specific group in saying this, because this is exactly what I sought out back then.
I too didn't agree with much of what I jumped ahead & read in the BB. God, inventory, sharing the inventory, more God, make amends, more God. It overwhelmed me. Worse yet, I began to turn back to my old way of thinking. I arranged the steps the way I wanted and worked what I wanted to work as I wanted to work it. You can probably guess the success I had.
If my life we're simply about not drinking, I wouldn't still be in AA. Old Paul cared more about himself than he did you ... my needs always came ahead of yours ... I looked at you in one of two ways ... 1) what were you going to try to do to me or 2) what is it I could get from you. Again, simply removing the drink, was not a solution for me. But neither was attending AA meetings that didn't carry the message of recovery. I HAD to have that. When I once again found myself being sick & tired of being sick & tired, I sought out to find AA's who lived the AA program.
If you want it, it works ... that's all I really do know. But the willingness to do that, must come from within. No one can give it to you. The book makes it pretty clear ... if you want what we have and are willing to any length to get it, then you are ready to take certain steps.
There's no requirement to understand every single word of every single step prior to taking them. You said step 3 is a hard one to get your head around. I understand. But understand this ... step 3 is ONLY about making a decision to turn your will & life over. All the stuff you shared about people, meetings and what ever else, set that to the side ... you're at a crossroads. You've been in AA since January and haven't drank since May, which is great ... but there is more if you truly want it. Up to this point today, based on your own words, you've worked up to step 2. In doing that, you have come to some sort of conception of God as you understand Him (hopefully). If you have done that, then all that remains is making that decision in 3.
I promise you ... if you just take the steps rather than read them & think what ever thoughts you do, you'll honest to God will be amazed at what happens within. More will be revealed ... the first 100 alcoholics that did it, promised it.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Southwest PA USA
Posts: 339
Originally Posted by tellus
My own experience: I also started attending AA in January. I really believe it kept me sober during my first few months, and taught me a lot of coping skills. But at six months sober I decided it wasn't for me. I just don't like the attitude of my city's AA. (And not to sound bitter, but all those AA "friends?" Not one call or email since I left. The ones I've talked to face-to-face don't believe me when I say I'm still sober.)
In a nutshell, AA is not for everyone, and is not the only option. It's fantastic for a lot of people, but not all. If it's not your cup of tea, there are lot of other programs out there.
In a nutshell, AA is not for everyone, and is not the only option. It's fantastic for a lot of people, but not all. If it's not your cup of tea, there are lot of other programs out there.
I read the forums a lot, but I don't post too often. This here ^^ really hit home though. I used to attend AA very often. Around here it's EXTREMELY 'clique-ish'. During my attendance, it was always believed that anyone who left would get drunk. No exceptions. During my attendance, I held service positions (GSR, went to jail meetings, did detox meetings) and NOT FREAKING ONCE did any of these people call if they didn't want something.
If I was sick or otherwise couldn't make my home group, no one called to see how I was doing.
I don't golf, hunt, or fish, so was never invited for casual get-togethers. The only invites I got were to help people move, after all, "you have to help another drunk."
I will say that a (very) small minority of the people in AA are very sincere in their efforts. But most people, in my opinion, use AA( again just from what I've seen in my town) use the meetings as a social club.
And I've also learned that even though AA does not officially recognize any particular religion, in practice it's abundantly clear that anything other than Judeo-Christians values are at best ignored, and at worst actually criticized.
I stopped reading the opening credits at meetings when I could no longer honestly say "there is one who has all power" because I began pursuing a polytheistic religion.
Once that became known, I was no longer welcome. This was never openly said, but from the way these alleged 'friends' I had made shifted their attitudes towards me, it was clear. These people still barely acknowledge me when I bump into them around town.
Again, in my opinion only, AA contains the some of the most arrogant, opinionated, closed-minded people I have yet to encounter, although they will never admit this. Any failure on their part is always chalked up to "well, it's progress, not perfection." Alcoholics Anonymous is nothing more than a religious conversion masquarading as stop-drinking program.
My two cents.
Explore secular options. You are more powerful than you think.
Blessings to all.
BHJ
TruthJustice
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Boondocks
Posts: 112
BHJ,
I don't give thanks that often (I think it contributes to a bit of a popularity contest) but I really appreciated your story.
By the way, I believe in a one Christian God and I'm sure you and I would get along just fine despite our different takes on the world.
I don't give thanks that often (I think it contributes to a bit of a popularity contest) but I really appreciated your story.
By the way, I believe in a one Christian God and I'm sure you and I would get along just fine despite our different takes on the world.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,876
Paul is correct when he says aa is for people who want it, aa is a lifestyle not a program to help one quit drinking.
There are many more people who choose to not embrace the aa lifestyle than do, so there is no reason to doubt the ability to get and remain sober without aa.
My experience and perspective of aa is quite parallel to BaldHeadedJohn's, certainly we are not alone.
I will second what BHJ said...You are more powerful than you realize.
There are many more people who choose to not embrace the aa lifestyle than do, so there is no reason to doubt the ability to get and remain sober without aa.
My experience and perspective of aa is quite parallel to BaldHeadedJohn's, certainly we are not alone.
I will second what BHJ said...You are more powerful than you realize.
Life the gift of recovery!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 7,061
Originally Posted by BaldHeadedJohn
............
I will say that a (very) small minority of the people in AA are very sincere in their efforts. But most people, in my opinion, use AA( again just from what I've seen in my town) use the meetings as a social club.
And I've also learned that even though AA does not officially recognize any particular religion, in practice it's abundantly clear that anything other than Judeo-Christians values are at best ignored, and at worst actually criticized........
........Again, in my opinion only, AA contains the some of the most arrogant, opinionated, closed-minded people I have yet to encounter, although they will never admit this. Any failure on their part is always chalked up to "well, it's progress, not perfection." Alcoholics Anonymous is nothing more than a religious conversion masquarading as stop-drinking program.
I will say that a (very) small minority of the people in AA are very sincere in their efforts. But most people, in my opinion, use AA( again just from what I've seen in my town) use the meetings as a social club.
And I've also learned that even though AA does not officially recognize any particular religion, in practice it's abundantly clear that anything other than Judeo-Christians values are at best ignored, and at worst actually criticized........
........Again, in my opinion only, AA contains the some of the most arrogant, opinionated, closed-minded people I have yet to encounter, although they will never admit this. Any failure on their part is always chalked up to "well, it's progress, not perfection." Alcoholics Anonymous is nothing more than a religious conversion masquarading as stop-drinking program.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,876
Just for clarification nandm, aa was formed based on the teachings and beliefs of the Oxford Group which prayed to and worshiped the God of Christianity. I do not believe the "program of aa" is Christian at all, quite the opposite in fact. The use of a hp that can be anything kinda nips that in the bud.
Life the gift of recovery!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 7,061
Originally Posted by bugsworth
Just for clarification nandm, aa was formed based on the teachings and beliefs of the Oxford Group which prayed to and worshiped the God of Christianity. I do not believe the "program of aa" is Christian at all, quite the opposite in fact. The use of a hp that can be anything kinda nips that in the bud.
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 773
Sometimes I feel as if AA tells you to find your own higher power, however, it helps to be a Christian. I mean they say the prayer after every meeting. I have held out on the prayer a few times and always get questioned on my decision.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 64
Take what you can use from AA.
The desire to stop drinking and remain sober, wrecked pasts because of alcohol abuse, are all the common things that bind us as alcoholics, whether in AA or any other program or no program even. All the other spiritual ways of looking at things are merely advice which you can choose to apply or not.
You can go in as deep as you want (or think you need).
And like previous posters already said: you will find dogmatic, judgemental people everywhere...
The desire to stop drinking and remain sober, wrecked pasts because of alcohol abuse, are all the common things that bind us as alcoholics, whether in AA or any other program or no program even. All the other spiritual ways of looking at things are merely advice which you can choose to apply or not.
You can go in as deep as you want (or think you need).
And like previous posters already said: you will find dogmatic, judgemental people everywhere...
1 bite&all resistance crumbles
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: IRELAND
Posts: 2,208
Thanks nandm! Love your post and love the gratitude that I so can relate to - AA - the program, my reconnection with life, my HP, the steps etc saved my life -and gave me a better one in return! I will be forever grateful. I also am astounded at some of the 'experiences' of the anti-aa'ers it in no way resembles the aa i know (which I have visited on many continents!) but I guess it happens...gotta separate the message from some of the messengers!
How utterly wonderful to be sober and absolutely and utterly -for today - free from the desire to drink.
Cathy31
x
How utterly wonderful to be sober and absolutely and utterly -for today - free from the desire to drink.
Cathy31
x
things as it is
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 233
Originally Posted by bugsworth
Just for clarification nandm, aa was formed based on the teachings and beliefs of the Oxford Group which prayed to and worshiped the God of Christianity. I do not believe the "program of aa" is Christian at all, quite the opposite in fact. The use of a hp that can be anything kinda nips that in the bud.
Without help it is too much for us. But there is One who has all power - that one is God. May you find Him now!
???????????????????
Quote Source:
Alcoholics Anonymous
First Edition
Last edited by CarolD; 10-10-2008 at 07:39 AM. Reason: Source Added
things as it is
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 233
And also:
Our description of the alcoholic, the chapter to the agnostic, and our personal adventures before and after make clear three pertinent ideas:
a. That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.
b. That probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism.
c. That God could and would if He were sought.
I have no issue with the god thing. I am an atheist as well as a happy member of AA. My issue is when people say it is not a Judeo/Xian based organization. IT IS! And should be proud of its history. It is an amazing story. I've read Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers and absolutely love the movie, My Name Is Bill with James Woods. This history is fabulous and there was terrific struggle with the whole god thing.
What it comes down to is the wisdom in the preamble, "The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking". The incredible strength of groups of people with a primary purpose can be utilized by anyone who seeks to get and stay sober. So shout it from the rooftops, AA is a God based organization. But if you have trouble with it and you seek the support of people with a common goal, simply utilize, don't analyze.
Peace
Quote Source:
Alcoholics Anonymous
First Edition
Our description of the alcoholic, the chapter to the agnostic, and our personal adventures before and after make clear three pertinent ideas:
a. That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.
b. That probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism.
c. That God could and would if He were sought.
I have no issue with the god thing. I am an atheist as well as a happy member of AA. My issue is when people say it is not a Judeo/Xian based organization. IT IS! And should be proud of its history. It is an amazing story. I've read Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers and absolutely love the movie, My Name Is Bill with James Woods. This history is fabulous and there was terrific struggle with the whole god thing.
What it comes down to is the wisdom in the preamble, "The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking". The incredible strength of groups of people with a primary purpose can be utilized by anyone who seeks to get and stay sober. So shout it from the rooftops, AA is a God based organization. But if you have trouble with it and you seek the support of people with a common goal, simply utilize, don't analyze.
Peace
Quote Source:
Alcoholics Anonymous
First Edition
Last edited by CarolD; 10-10-2008 at 07:40 AM. Reason: Added Source
Follow Directions!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
Very VERY well said Zendust, it would be foolish to say AA is not based on Judoe-Christian based orginization, heck the US Constitution is as well, but like AA it assures us freedom of religion/no religion.
Funny how some folks can not do what you have done so well and just take it for what it is and not try and make it into something it is not. Based on does not mean it is. That would be like calling the US "European" because the founding fathers were European. LOL
Funny how some folks can not do what you have done so well and just take it for what it is and not try and make it into something it is not. Based on does not mean it is. That would be like calling the US "European" because the founding fathers were European. LOL
Next stop: real life
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 990
Originally Posted by Cathy31
I also am astounded at some of the 'experiences' of the anti-aa'ers it in no way resembles the aa i know (which I have visited on many continents!) but I guess it happens...gotta separate the message from some of the messengers!
(Taz, re: the Christianity... My sponsor required me to pray on my knees daily. How is that secular?)
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Some sponsors are not following the official AA guidelines
"Questions and Answers on Sponsorship"
Some AA members do not follow the official AA guideline
in the basic text...the first 164 pages of our BB.
Yes! both situations are destructive.
That does not mean AA is right or wrong
it does mean people are human.
The key is to find something that makes you
healthy and joy filled....
"Questions and Answers on Sponsorship"
Some AA members do not follow the official AA guideline
in the basic text...the first 164 pages of our BB.
Yes! both situations are destructive.
That does not mean AA is right or wrong
it does mean people are human.
The key is to find something that makes you
healthy and joy filled....
Follow Directions!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
(Taz, re: the Christianity... My sponsor required me to pray on my knees daily. How is that secular?)
A sponsor is not a sponsee's boss, a sponsor's main purpose is to help a sponsee take the steps. A sponsor may say something like "I found that being on my knees when praying helped me to humble myself.", but only as a suggestion.
If a sponsor wants to be a boss and you do not want them to be your boss then tell them so, and if need be find another sponsor.
There are sponsors that are bully's, they are the ones who have very few if any sponsee's. I in no way consider myself over a single one of my sponsee's, we are all alcoholics and equals, the only difference between me and one of my sponsee's is that I have been through the steps and they have not, my primary purpose for my sponsee's is to help them take the steps by sharing my ES&H from when I took them. ANything beyond that is what they ask of me. I am there for them, they are not there for me to boss around.
If they ask me a question, I answer it if I can, if I can't I will try and find the anwer for them. If they need some help I will help them or point them to someone who can. I am not a doctor, lawyer, or coach doctor, I will not hesitate suggesting they go to one if needed. All I am is a recovering alcoholic who has worked the steps sharing my ES&H with another alcoholic who has asked me to take them through the steps.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
For anyone interested....
this list of various recovery programs has been posted here for years
I have shared it on the boards many times.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-programs.html
Please explore and Yes! we all can recover
this list of various recovery programs has been posted here for years
I have shared it on the boards many times.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-programs.html
Please explore and Yes! we all can recover
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
I personally would not be alive right now were it not for AA.
But ... I made the decision to change my life.
What I read here, is really more an issue of not being able to choose whether one if better off not drinking.
My drinking friends are dconditional as are my aa friends kind of thing.
Well...
that comes into that choice thing.
AA... a lifestyle?
what a hoot.
AA ... *is* life for some of us.
Those of us who realized we didnt know what living *is*.
I see a whole lot of people come to aa trying to make it into something they can control.
They try to turn it into somethng they don't have to change to be in.
I think I can safely say
not one single person came to aa because their lives were going well.
THe Program .. is all about change.
And many of us had to do that changing on far deeper levels than injestion of a substance.
Some people don't.
Some people tried aa,
couldn't do the program honestly
and constantly put it down because they were unable to change.
My sister used to do that.
She'd screw up , go to aa,
fail to compllete the steps
and spend the next year still drinking yarping
about how the Program failed.
The p;rogram was no good.
The people were after her sexually and any other ridiculous dang thing
she could regurgitate to justify being drunk.
To justify staying the way she was.
From where I sit -
the program didn't fail.
She did.
We are alcoholics.
We will do whatever we have to to justify
ourselves, our addiction, and the reasons we came to where we are.
We either wise up or we don't.
I think your observations are those that many of us began with...
or come to at one point or other in sobriety.
(part time friends in both worlds kind of thinking.)
Like I say... it comes down to a decision thing, as far as I can tell.
My 'bar friends' were helping me die.
My AA friends... teach me how to truly live.
But ... I made the decision to change my life.
What I read here, is really more an issue of not being able to choose whether one if better off not drinking.
My drinking friends are dconditional as are my aa friends kind of thing.
Well...
that comes into that choice thing.
AA... a lifestyle?
what a hoot.
AA ... *is* life for some of us.
Those of us who realized we didnt know what living *is*.
I see a whole lot of people come to aa trying to make it into something they can control.
They try to turn it into somethng they don't have to change to be in.
I think I can safely say
not one single person came to aa because their lives were going well.
THe Program .. is all about change.
And many of us had to do that changing on far deeper levels than injestion of a substance.
Some people don't.
Some people tried aa,
couldn't do the program honestly
and constantly put it down because they were unable to change.
My sister used to do that.
She'd screw up , go to aa,
fail to compllete the steps
and spend the next year still drinking yarping
about how the Program failed.
The p;rogram was no good.
The people were after her sexually and any other ridiculous dang thing
she could regurgitate to justify being drunk.
To justify staying the way she was.
From where I sit -
the program didn't fail.
She did.
We are alcoholics.
We will do whatever we have to to justify
ourselves, our addiction, and the reasons we came to where we are.
We either wise up or we don't.
I think your observations are those that many of us began with...
or come to at one point or other in sobriety.
(part time friends in both worlds kind of thinking.)
Like I say... it comes down to a decision thing, as far as I can tell.
My 'bar friends' were helping me die.
My AA friends... teach me how to truly live.
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