Beginning to doubt whether AA is right for me
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,876
Taz said..."Very VERY well said Zendust, it would be foolish to say AA is not based on Judoe-Christian based orginization"
Zen and Taz...I DID say that aa was originally based on a Christian God and was firmly rooted in the Christian religion, maybe you missed it. LOL However IMO aa morphed into a religion unto itself with the use of HP's that can be anything. In Christianity it is sacrilege to worship any other God...aa is religious for sure, just it is a religion practiced by aa alcoholics.
Zen and Taz...I DID say that aa was originally based on a Christian God and was firmly rooted in the Christian religion, maybe you missed it. LOL However IMO aa morphed into a religion unto itself with the use of HP's that can be anything. In Christianity it is sacrilege to worship any other God...aa is religious for sure, just it is a religion practiced by aa alcoholics.
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
I'm beginning to think all this religion stuff is just another excuse.
An excuse to put AA down.
An excuse to push your own religious agenda.
Aren't there religious websites where these people can get their jollies
or the attention they obviously feel they aren't getting here
someplace else on the web they can post with people who care what they think?
I come to SR to stay sober.
I don't particularly care what you believe.
I care ... how you're doing it.
As long as how you're doing it ...
isn't by putting others down.
It also has little to do with what the original thread asked.
An excuse to put AA down.
An excuse to push your own religious agenda.
Aren't there religious websites where these people can get their jollies
or the attention they obviously feel they aren't getting here
someplace else on the web they can post with people who care what they think?
I come to SR to stay sober.
I don't particularly care what you believe.
I care ... how you're doing it.
As long as how you're doing it ...
isn't by putting others down.
It also has little to do with what the original thread asked.
Next stop: real life
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 990
An excuse to push your own religious agenda.
someplace else on the web they can post with people who care what they think?
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
I apologizew for snapping ...
even *I* have a limit to how much I can read of the same put downs from the same person.
I apologize to everyone else.
I should have PMd the person.
I just get so tired of all the arguing.
even *I* have a limit to how much I can read of the same put downs from the same person.
I apologize to everyone else.
I should have PMd the person.
I just get so tired of all the arguing.
Another Day in Paradise
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Upland, CA
Posts: 900
Whenever I hear AA described by those who have participated in it, either with satisfaction, or those who have found it lacking for their needs, I am reminded of the old story of the THREE BLIND MEN AND THE ELEPHANT. Each man, dependant on his "feel" for the situation describes the beast differently.
I tend to see the "AA experience" in much the same manner. With all due respect to Bugsworth's assessment of AA as a lifestyle, this particular "blind man" has always felt that AA is a "guide" for a particular way of looking at life and does not have to be a way of living exclusive of other lifestyles. I have heard reference to the "DOGMA" of AA and I believe that the dogma rests more with SOME members than with the concept of AA itself. I am extremely unorthodox by some member’s standards, but I have spent the past 9 years as a participant in AA without too much difficulty. For me, the program is simply as we hear so often, a "suggested" discipline and pattern for changing my dependency on alcohol. I am not trying to persuade anyone to join or continue to attend AA, I just worry sometimes that there seems to be an inordinate need to be ALL AA or not, and this has never been my experience.
Absolutely I have seen fanaticism in AA and I have seen rabid anti-AA sentiment as well. I am a huge proponent of water, but I am not a fish! I seek moderation in ALL things, including MODERATION.
Silliness aside, I hope I will always be available to share what I have gained from AA and the twelve steps, but if only part of that works for you, or if it only provides a springboard to another plane of sober existence then I can't help but think it has been a good thing to have experienced the program.
Please understand that this is just my assessment based on my experience and in no way reflects on the "truth of the matter." Staying sober and staying alive and doing both while living a happy productive life is the goal.
Jon
I tend to see the "AA experience" in much the same manner. With all due respect to Bugsworth's assessment of AA as a lifestyle, this particular "blind man" has always felt that AA is a "guide" for a particular way of looking at life and does not have to be a way of living exclusive of other lifestyles. I have heard reference to the "DOGMA" of AA and I believe that the dogma rests more with SOME members than with the concept of AA itself. I am extremely unorthodox by some member’s standards, but I have spent the past 9 years as a participant in AA without too much difficulty. For me, the program is simply as we hear so often, a "suggested" discipline and pattern for changing my dependency on alcohol. I am not trying to persuade anyone to join or continue to attend AA, I just worry sometimes that there seems to be an inordinate need to be ALL AA or not, and this has never been my experience.
Absolutely I have seen fanaticism in AA and I have seen rabid anti-AA sentiment as well. I am a huge proponent of water, but I am not a fish! I seek moderation in ALL things, including MODERATION.
Silliness aside, I hope I will always be available to share what I have gained from AA and the twelve steps, but if only part of that works for you, or if it only provides a springboard to another plane of sober existence then I can't help but think it has been a good thing to have experienced the program.
Please understand that this is just my assessment based on my experience and in no way reflects on the "truth of the matter." Staying sober and staying alive and doing both while living a happy productive life is the goal.
Jon
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Southwest PA USA
Posts: 339
It seems that a lot of people have been stirred up. As always, I can only state my experience from what I've seen. In my neck of the woods, anyone who does believe that the book 'Alcoholics Anonymous' was divinely inspired tends to be shunned. I was sober from 11/04 thru 5/07 as an AA member. See my previous post in this thread. It was when I began exploring the concept of "Higher Power" and what it meant to me, and when it did not agree with the accepted orthodoxy, that I began to see the program of Alocoholic Anonymous for what I believe it really is. If someone is doubting as to whether or not they should remain a member of AA, then I say please, please, please explore other options. I truly have seen many people get and stay sober as a member of AA. I have also seen many who have questioned the program, began to question their sponsors, and began to point out many of the program's inherent contradictions become second-class members. Many people will respond "That's not the AA I know", but to a lot of us, me included, that is exactly the AA I know.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,385
I don't give a rats patoot whether AA is religious or not.
I'm way more worried by the sniping here.
If you can work within the framework of AA then IMO it's probably in your best interests to do so - there's a great framework of support there and a useful set of guidelines to live your life by if you choose to do so.
If, for whatever reason, you can't abide by the prevailing beliefs or live within the AA framework - and I cheerfully admit I can't - then find something else that works.
and for petes sake, whatever side of the fence you're on - pls stop putting other people down for doing something you can't do.
ends.
D
I'm way more worried by the sniping here.
If you can work within the framework of AA then IMO it's probably in your best interests to do so - there's a great framework of support there and a useful set of guidelines to live your life by if you choose to do so.
If, for whatever reason, you can't abide by the prevailing beliefs or live within the AA framework - and I cheerfully admit I can't - then find something else that works.
and for petes sake, whatever side of the fence you're on - pls stop putting other people down for doing something you can't do.
ends.D
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Southwest PA USA
Posts: 339
Originally Posted by Dee74 
I don't give a rats patoot whether AA is religious or not.
I'm way more worried by the sniping here.
If you can work within the framework of AA then IMO it's probably in your best interests to do so - there's a great framework of support there and a useful set of guidelines to live your life by if you choose to do so.
If, for whatever reason, you can't abide by the prevailing beliefs or live within the AA framework - and I cheerfully admit I can't - then find something else that works.
and for petes sake, whatever side of the fence you're on - pls stop putting other people down for doing something you can't do.
ends.
D
I'm way more worried by the sniping here.
If you can work within the framework of AA then IMO it's probably in your best interests to do so - there's a great framework of support there and a useful set of guidelines to live your life by if you choose to do so.
If, for whatever reason, you can't abide by the prevailing beliefs or live within the AA framework - and I cheerfully admit I can't - then find something else that works.
and for petes sake, whatever side of the fence you're on - pls stop putting other people down for doing something you can't do.
ends.D
Whose sniping?
Whose putting peple down?
What can't I do?
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,385
LOL. I really hope you're not talking to me Boleo 
I tried, in my own way, to pour oil on these troubled waters.
Didn't work.
C'est la vie. Call it the optimism of someone who had a bad week and rediscovered the small joys of life.
I have my own viewpoints and opinions on sobriety and AA in particular. They may or may not be valid - what I try and never do is think they automatically apply for everyone else.
Whatever works, use it. Whatever doesn't work - discard it.
D
I tried, in my own way, to pour oil on these troubled waters.
Didn't work.
C'est la vie. Call it the optimism of someone who had a bad week and rediscovered the small joys of life.
I have my own viewpoints and opinions on sobriety and AA in particular. They may or may not be valid - what I try and never do is think they automatically apply for everyone else.
Whatever works, use it. Whatever doesn't work - discard it.
D
Knucklehead
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,005
Originally Posted by Boleo
Sounds like you have GOOD sobriety and are not interested in going on to find the BEST sobriety.
"Sometimes the GOOD is the enemy of the BEST.
(Abe Lincoln & Bill Wilson)
"Sometimes the GOOD is the enemy of the BEST.
(Abe Lincoln & Bill Wilson)
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Southwest PA USA
Posts: 339
Originally Posted by Dee74
geez louise. Are you serious John?
:
D
:D
I'm only stating my opinion. Check below for the experiences of a fellow from my area.
The Addiction Recovery Information Distribution Site (The ARID Site)
I relate to himwhole-heartedly. From what I've seen, once a person begins to doubt the pureness and divinely-inspired program that is Alcoholics Anonymous, they are treated as second-class drunks. I have sat in many meetings (big book studies, I did not capitalize 'big book' on purpose) where these zealots will swear that that particular book was written by the hand of God himself!
I encourage everyone to check out AA. It may be right for them. I also encourage people who may disagree with the tenets of AA to check out other programs. What disturbs me the most is the people who gosh-dang-dammit-it-worked-for-me-it-has-to-work-for-you people. If the OP is having doubts, then dammit EXPLORE OTHER OPTIONS!. Quit crusading.
"No one expects the Spanish Inquistuion"
bona fido dog-lover
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SF Bay area, CA
Posts: 99,760
I found a lot of help from AA in my early sobriety. Nowadays I only go to my home group meeting once a week and sometimes a lead meeting. I love my friends in my home group, even tho some have opposite beliefs than I do. I take what I can use, whatever helps me, and leave the rest.
I like what my old farmer grandpa used to say: It's good if you like it. I like AA and have been helped from there a lot. There are also some people in AA that I can't stand. I hang with the ones I like and ignore (politely) those I don't care for so much. But I won't put any program down if it helps someone.
hugs for all!:ghug3 :ghug3 :ghug3
I like what my old farmer grandpa used to say: It's good if you like it. I like AA and have been helped from there a lot. There are also some people in AA that I can't stand. I hang with the ones I like and ignore (politely) those I don't care for so much. But I won't put any program down if it helps someone.
hugs for all!:ghug3 :ghug3 :ghug3
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 103
They say you can be agnostic and still be in the program, but the whole point of the chapter to the agnostics is to try to get you to not be agnostic anymore. I choose not to be in a program in which I can't be agnostic.
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