Dee74

I think the conversation is always going to veer to the general here, simply because most here have not read your book and most aren't likely to.

D

sugErspun

I don't know what book it was. But once he made an attempt to moderate, the physical craving once more developed and he was unable to stop until being locked down in a hospital.

When they describe the 'allergy' in AA - it makes a lot of sense to me. The action of said allergy being the manifestation of a physical craving for more alcohol (Doctor's Opinion - Alcoholics Anonymous)

mikel60

"Again--and respectfully--I have to say I'm interested to see the conversation has turned to that of moderation versus abstinence rather than a discussion about how we are now able to offer alcoholics new therapeutic options."

The therapeutic option that you advocate involves moderation. The option that many here advocate involves abstinence. I think people want to discuss how their therapeutic option compares with yours. Interesting discussion. Thanks for coming - but I'm not buying. Sorry.
Mike

NotPowerless

Well I have ended up in the wrong place. I am looking for a more open minded approach. I wish you all the best.

Cathy31

That's fair enough.

For me being 'open minded' - i.e. to moderation when I KNOW what the consequences are, for an alcoholic,just is a risk I can't entertain. IMHO it's more dangerous than it is helpful...

Cathy31
x

tkdan

rjewell, I hope you don't think this was a personal attack of your book. Although I read the entire book, once I seen the word moderation I lost hope that it had anything to offer. I'm not closed minded. I have tried moderation more times than I care to remember. I believe moderation is not an option for me. I can not speak for others.
To quote myself I did point this out in my first post. Maybe I should have not used your book as an example as to what I can not do (moderate). I should have said in my opinion it would be dangerous for me to read it and think I could moderate my drinking.
I do believe in using any means necessary to remain sober. As far as medication I use Campral, and taken as directed it work wonders with cravings for me. As far as nutrition I take vitamins, minerals, amino acids, and maintain a very low carb diet. I don't use hypnotherapy although I do meditate and use positive reinforcement with it. We are not too far apart with our approach.
I'm sorry if you took my post as an attack. I was merely wanting to start up a discussion about true alcoholics not being able to drink in moderation. If I would have never grasped that I would still be trying to control my drinking. Now if I make the mistake of drinking I do it with the full knowledge that I have no control over it.
I have to admit I was quite shocked when you replied to my post. I admire you for sticking up for your program. That tells me you truely believe in it.
Welcome to SR. You are always weclome here.

nolonger

Hi Roberta, thanks for your thoughtful contributions. "...I believe we have to respect those who simply will not attend 12-step meetings or enter an in-patient program. They still need help..." is a wise and humane statement.

For me, after long years of misery, moderation is no longer an option I'm interested in, and I'm really happy with that. But I can remember what I was like, and can see how moderation can at least be the beginning of a serious attempt to address an alcohol problem, even if, like for me, it doesn't work in the end. (There's not so much difference between that and the AA suggestion of a trial of "controlled drinking" it seems to me.)

happy new year,
NL>

sugErspun

That may be best. I cannot possibly offer/ nor tolerate an offer of moderation as an option or future option to someone who is alcoholic.

Now, the non-alcoholic is another issue all together, and I do not have any advice for someone who is non-alcoholic, and just has a problem with alcohol. IMO there is a distinct difference between the two.

Miss Pink

why would someone leave this conversation just because one person has an opposing view?

swamijapa

Notpowerless.
To me being open minded means taking on board different opinions. By leaving doesn't seem to me you are very open minded.
Swamijapa

Tazman53

rjewell my hat is off to you, just like so many other options for recovery from alcoholism you do not claim to be the only way to get and stay sober.

I admire the fact that even though in your book you feel some people can moderate their drinking that you state some do need to abstain. I can also see your logic that someone using your program may be more capable of finding thier way to abstenance and other recovery programs.

Treatment and recovery from alcoholism is not a one size fits all deal.

I also like that you your self have stated that you have reached the point of abstaining rather then trying to continue moderation.

I am one of the real alcoholics they do speak of in the book Alcoholics Anonymous and have found recovery in that program, who knows if I had found your book before I found AA I may have found my way to AA even quicker.

Lineman

The book "End Your Addiction Now" by Charles Gant MD. PHD. NMD. changed my life. It is a good reading. The amino acids I take have saved my life.

Meagan51591

Tkdan: Have u ever read, The Alcoholic Soiciety: Addiction & Recovery of the Self, by Norman Denzin. It is very abstract, and it makes me question the relationship of alcoholism and society.

Does you feel that alcoholism is more of a genetic predisposition or a learned behavior?

CAPTAINZING2000

I thought moderation was only buying a 12 pack

CarolD

Lineman.....Welcome to our SR Alcoholism Forum

Meagan51591....
Good to see a new member...Welcome

tkdan

I believe I'm an alcoholic because of reasons explained in the book Under the Influence by James R. Milam &Katherine Ketcham. I believe our environment either slows or speeds the process but has nothing to do with whether or not we are an alcoholic. If someone who is predisposed to alcoholism never drinks then they avoid the disease. Some people are physically incapable of processing alcohol the same way as most people do.

tkdan

I believe nutritional supplementation helps a great deal with recovery. I have not read the book you are refering to. I do use amino acid suplements as part of my recovery and for my physical activities. Does this book support moderation or abstinence? The answer would determine whether or not I would read it. I have no interest in moderation.

Lineman

The book focuses on the body in the Mind, Body, Spiritual recovery. I like to think of it as a three legged stool to sit on. Too many people fall of off a two legged stool. All I know what has worked for me, and this has.

lovingseren

There are actually quite a few people here who are openminded, I had to look for them though. LOL
Much as there has been a lot of progress in the motor vehicle since the turn of the last century, there has also been much progress in the treatment of alcoholism.

Lineman

Yes there has, Lovingseren. The studies and clinical results are out there.