Is Alcoholism Really Just A Symptom
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Join Date: Feb 2006
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Is Alcoholism Really Just A Symptom
One thought on my mind for quite a while, after all is said and done, is alcoholism really mostly a symtom. A widely held belief here at SR is that without a recovery program, few will stay sober. And if they do, they often become a "dry drunk", same issues, just one less symptom. And those that get away from their program usually drift back. So quitting alone seems like treating the symtom, not the root problem.
I am interested in any thoughts ya'll may have on the matter
Best,
Steve
I am interested in any thoughts ya'll may have on the matter
Best,
Steve
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Yes I still believe my drinking was but a "symptom" of deeper spiritual and emotional issues and yes I do believe that in order to maintain longlasting sobriety it is best to have a "programme of action" I personally follow AA but many others have had long term sobriety with programmes other than AA .
Even the "lone wolfer" still follows some kind of self imposed boundaries for himself where it comes to drinking.
As for the "dry drunk" theory. I doubt that it is a widely accepted idea outside of the rooms of AA. I personally do not subscribe to it.
Even the "lone wolfer" still follows some kind of self imposed boundaries for himself where it comes to drinking.
As for the "dry drunk" theory. I doubt that it is a widely accepted idea outside of the rooms of AA. I personally do not subscribe to it.
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I agree with Peter that alcoholism is a symptom of deeper issues and that the issues beneath the symptom need to be dealt with, in order to move forward with your life. I didn't begin drinking until my mid-forties, but before that I was depressed, a control-freak and full of anxiety.
SR has been a huge inspiration to me and I have learned so much here. The main thing for me is that it takes work - spiritually, physically and emotionally - every day in order to stay on the road to recovery.
SR has been a huge inspiration to me and I have learned so much here. The main thing for me is that it takes work - spiritually, physically and emotionally - every day in order to stay on the road to recovery.
Not all better, getting better
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I also tend to agree. Many use alcohol to "self medicate" other issues. When someone quits without a "program" many in AA refer to them as dry drunks. To my knowledge this is an AA term. For me, a "program" takes many shapes. It includes posting here, reading various revovery materials, journaling, seeing my theripist, (in my case) takeing my meds, etc. 12-step recovery IS NOT necessary for recovery. It is helpful for many, but not for some. Nothing applies to everyone, and neither does this. Some just quit on their own, with no outside support, and do just fine, but for many outside support is very helpful. Take care
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I am not an expert but below is what. I assume the experts have collaboratively agreed on.
Alcoholism is a primary, chronic disease with genetic, psychological, and environmental factors influencing its development and manifestations. This disease is often progressive and fatal. It is characterized by continuous or periodic: impaired control over drinking, preoccupation with the drug alcohol, use of alcohol despite adverse consequences, and distortions in thinking, most notably denial.
Primary refers to the nature of alcoholism as a disease entity, in addition to and separate from other path-physiologic states that may be associated with it. Primary suggests that alcoholism, as an addiction, is not a symptom of an underlying disease state. Primary also implies that when this disease coexists with other conditions, therapies applied to them are ineffective until the alcoholism is dealt with.
Disease means an involuntary disability. It represents the sum of abnormal phenomena displayed by a group of individuals. These phenomena are associated with a specific common set of characteristics by which these individuals differ from the norm and which places them at a disadvantage.
Often progressive and fatal means that the disease persists over time and that physical, psychological, and emotional changes area often cumulative and may progress as drinking continues. Alcohol causes premature death through overdose; organic complications involving the brain, liver, heart, and other organs; and by contributing to suicide, homicide, motor vehicle crashes, and other traumatic events.
Impaired control means inability to limit alcohol use or consistently limit, on any drinking occasions, the duration of the episode, the quantity consumed, and/or the behavioral consequences of drinking.
Preoccupation, in association with alcohol use, means excessive focused attention given to the drug alcohol, its effects, and/or its use. The relative value assigned to alcohol by the individual often leads to diversion of energies away from important life functions.
Adverse consequences are alcohol-related problems or impairments in such areas as: physical health (e.g., alcohol withdrawal symptoms, liver disease, gastritis, anemia, pancreatic and neuralgic disorders); interpersonal functioning (e.g., marital problems, child abuse, impaired social relationships); occupational functioning (e.g., scholastic or job problems); and legal, financial, or spiritual problems.
Denial is used here not only in the psychoanalytic sense of a single psychological defense mechanism disavowing the significance of events, but more broadly to include a range of psychological maneuvers designed to reduce awareness of the fact that alcohol use is the cause of an individual's problems rather than a solution to those problems. Denial becomes an integral part of the disease and a major obstacle to recovery.
http://www.aca-usa.org/alcoholism.htm
Alcoholism is a primary, chronic disease with genetic, psychological, and environmental factors influencing its development and manifestations. This disease is often progressive and fatal. It is characterized by continuous or periodic: impaired control over drinking, preoccupation with the drug alcohol, use of alcohol despite adverse consequences, and distortions in thinking, most notably denial.
Primary refers to the nature of alcoholism as a disease entity, in addition to and separate from other path-physiologic states that may be associated with it. Primary suggests that alcoholism, as an addiction, is not a symptom of an underlying disease state. Primary also implies that when this disease coexists with other conditions, therapies applied to them are ineffective until the alcoholism is dealt with.
Disease means an involuntary disability. It represents the sum of abnormal phenomena displayed by a group of individuals. These phenomena are associated with a specific common set of characteristics by which these individuals differ from the norm and which places them at a disadvantage.
Often progressive and fatal means that the disease persists over time and that physical, psychological, and emotional changes area often cumulative and may progress as drinking continues. Alcohol causes premature death through overdose; organic complications involving the brain, liver, heart, and other organs; and by contributing to suicide, homicide, motor vehicle crashes, and other traumatic events.
Impaired control means inability to limit alcohol use or consistently limit, on any drinking occasions, the duration of the episode, the quantity consumed, and/or the behavioral consequences of drinking.
Preoccupation, in association with alcohol use, means excessive focused attention given to the drug alcohol, its effects, and/or its use. The relative value assigned to alcohol by the individual often leads to diversion of energies away from important life functions.
Adverse consequences are alcohol-related problems or impairments in such areas as: physical health (e.g., alcohol withdrawal symptoms, liver disease, gastritis, anemia, pancreatic and neuralgic disorders); interpersonal functioning (e.g., marital problems, child abuse, impaired social relationships); occupational functioning (e.g., scholastic or job problems); and legal, financial, or spiritual problems.
Denial is used here not only in the psychoanalytic sense of a single psychological defense mechanism disavowing the significance of events, but more broadly to include a range of psychological maneuvers designed to reduce awareness of the fact that alcohol use is the cause of an individual's problems rather than a solution to those problems. Denial becomes an integral part of the disease and a major obstacle to recovery.
http://www.aca-usa.org/alcoholism.htm
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: long island,ny
Posts: 190
As Dr.Phil would say,"How's alcohol workin for ya?"
hi steve..i agree with you.Alcoholism IS a symptom of other underlying problems...And,just because you stop drinking,the other problems don't go away...but,being sober,you have a good chance to work things out,and become the person you want to be...
As you know,i've been sober for alittle over 10 weeks now,and I feel like,although i have been in therapy for 9 months,I am just starting to figure it all out...But,i can DO that now,my mind is clear,and i can see things more realistically.The alcohol made my life a blur...
We all agree,don't we,that alcohol is a poison for us...otherwise,we wouldn't all be here.....Be good to yourself! KT
As you know,i've been sober for alittle over 10 weeks now,and I feel like,although i have been in therapy for 9 months,I am just starting to figure it all out...But,i can DO that now,my mind is clear,and i can see things more realistically.The alcohol made my life a blur...
We all agree,don't we,that alcohol is a poison for us...otherwise,we wouldn't all be here.....Be good to yourself! KT
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: No. VA
Posts: 167
Well, I first found alcohol around 14 or 15 and man was it great. Would you say alcohol is an underlying problem when alcohol created all the problems? Up until then I was a relativley happy person with a normal childhood. Now I fear I am psychotic or going insane. By the way, day 4 done without a drink. Not a big deal, ive gone about 60 days before but then went out with friends and drank.
The only way alcohol has messed up my life is probably the fact that I never really figured out who I am (which is a huge thing) and I don't have the best relationships with people now. I am now 23. I have 2 classes left and then I get my bachelor's degree so thank god I finished school (crosses fingers) unlike most of my friends who all have their own problems with substance abuse.
The only thing I fear is that I ****** my head up for life. Which is the worst thing that can happen to someone IMO.
I know about PAWS but today I was feeling really good for quite a while and then I was really angry, then depressed, then confuesed. Now im typing to you great people. It really sucks to not know how you will feel from one moment to the next.
I am back at my parents house for the weekend and I had to talk a walk before I just lost it and started yelling or punching everything in the house. Guess that worked, but I still had the anger when I was talking a walk.
Anyway, interesting topic. Who knows...I would say that some people just like the feeling from using and then the problems start and then it is a symptom of something deeper while others use to escape feeling like ish all the time.
Edit: I want to add that in a way I feel drinking and drug use has opened me up to new perspectives that I would have never known before and I feel it has made me somewhat of a better critical thinker. But i'd give it all back in a sec if I could feel like a normal person again.
The only way alcohol has messed up my life is probably the fact that I never really figured out who I am (which is a huge thing) and I don't have the best relationships with people now. I am now 23. I have 2 classes left and then I get my bachelor's degree so thank god I finished school (crosses fingers) unlike most of my friends who all have their own problems with substance abuse.
The only thing I fear is that I ****** my head up for life. Which is the worst thing that can happen to someone IMO.
I know about PAWS but today I was feeling really good for quite a while and then I was really angry, then depressed, then confuesed. Now im typing to you great people. It really sucks to not know how you will feel from one moment to the next.
I am back at my parents house for the weekend and I had to talk a walk before I just lost it and started yelling or punching everything in the house. Guess that worked, but I still had the anger when I was talking a walk.
Anyway, interesting topic. Who knows...I would say that some people just like the feeling from using and then the problems start and then it is a symptom of something deeper while others use to escape feeling like ish all the time.
Edit: I want to add that in a way I feel drinking and drug use has opened me up to new perspectives that I would have never known before and I feel it has made me somewhat of a better critical thinker. But i'd give it all back in a sec if I could feel like a normal person again.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Well....
Here is why I continue to use AA
It is a fantastic adventure!
Here is why I continue to use AA
Fellowship
^*^*^
"We are average Americans.
All sections of this country and many of its occupations
are represented,
as well as many political, economic, social,
and religious backgrounds.
We are people who normally would not mix.
But there exists among us a fellowship,
a friendliness, and an understanding
which is indescribably wonderful ...
The tremendous fact for every one of us
is that we have discovered a common solution."
©1976 AAWS, Alcholics Anonymous, p. 17
^*^**^*^*
^*^*^
"We are average Americans.
All sections of this country and many of its occupations
are represented,
as well as many political, economic, social,
and religious backgrounds.
We are people who normally would not mix.
But there exists among us a fellowship,
a friendliness, and an understanding
which is indescribably wonderful ...
The tremendous fact for every one of us
is that we have discovered a common solution."
©1976 AAWS, Alcholics Anonymous, p. 17
^*^**^*^*
It is a fantastic adventure!
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
No.... I do not think alcoholism is necessarily a symptom
of a darn thing.
I drank too much for too long.
This explanation from "Beyond The Influence" is my belief..
Alcoholism is caused by biochemical/neurophysiological abnormalities that are passed down from one generation to the next or, in some cases, acquired through heavy or prolonged drinking.
_
JMO
of a darn thing.
I drank too much for too long.
This explanation from "Beyond The Influence" is my belief..
Alcoholism is caused by biochemical/neurophysiological abnormalities that are passed down from one generation to the next or, in some cases, acquired through heavy or prolonged drinking.
_
JMO
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: where the streets have no name
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Probably all of the the above are factors. Surely there are addicts that had a happy normal childhood, did well or EXCEPTIONALLY well in school/work/arts yet became addicted. We know addiction is democratic and rich/poor/uneducated/highly educated are affected, as are a wide range of personality types.
Alcohol IS A DRUG though a legal one.
Alcohol IS A DRUG though a legal one.
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: .
Posts: 299
In a way it's a symptom - there's definitely stuff going on deep down that is "driving people to drink," like the old phrase has it. But it's more complex thing than say "sneezing is a symptom of hay fever" because drinking completes a vicious circle and makes the original "cause" (whatever it may be) a lot worse.
So....pouring petrol on a bonfire, more like.
So....pouring petrol on a bonfire, more like.
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Cumming, Ga
Posts: 665
Peter, can you elaborate on your disbelief in the "dry drunk" theory? The reason I ask this is I have experienced what many including myself consider dry drunkeness. Being physically sober, but for whatever reason not emotionally, spirtually, menatally recovering. I have found that when I get away or discard this program, that is exactly what happens. While I am physically sober, I am consumed by alcoholic thinking and behavior. And this eventually will always ALWAYS lead to the first drink for this alcoholic. While there are those who have quit drinking "on their own" I doubt they were real alcoholics. The Big Book addresses those who were moderate or even heavy drinkers who were able to stop in time, but for those of us who truly crossed the line, a program of recovery is the only way out. That program of recovery requires a spiritual fix. Now there are plenty of people who will say, " I don't need AA or AA and the steps don't work for me." Well, don't look now, if you came to this board for help, you at least considered one and two. Even if you had never read them before. Just my 2 cents.
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Location: where the streets have no name
Posts: 1,078
I have friends recovered from alcoholism that say they didn't have emotional problems to work out. The only thing needed to be worked out was to stop drinking. A friend that has been sober for over 10 years says he has zero thought/urge to drink and his life is fine. He is crystal clear and is a computer systems engineer. Probably there is a wide spectrum of people in recovery.
At AA meetings some seem to still harbour much resentment while others are great, like non alcoholics.
PET scanning has shown alcohol causes verifiable chemical changes in the physiology of the brain.
At AA meetings some seem to still harbour much resentment while others are great, like non alcoholics.
PET scanning has shown alcohol causes verifiable chemical changes in the physiology of the brain.
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: anomaly
Posts: 2,180
True that it is a symptom of our deeper problems.
However don't get it confuse with working on your living problems
and you get well then go out and get drunk again.
The reason I work the steps becuase living sober was a pain in
the ass and i became more aware of my problems now that i'm not
buzz anymore. Working the 12 steps had help me live a happier
life so I don't need to drink or use anymore.
it's like a deminishing skill ..in a sense, working the 12 steps
or applying the steps in my life. Use it or loose it.
The 12 steps is not natural for me..so I always have to work on it.
My natrual state is total chaos and insanity.
I'm an alcoholic and I'll be one until the day I died.
I'm just not a drunk and I have a living program today.
I'm only one beer away from being a total maniac.
I'm still a maniac..but don't act out on it anymore..but I'm still capiable of it.
if i put alcohol in my system...it's like amplifiying that maniac 100 times.
In other words...a drunk is a total second or third rated part of me
and being clean and sober I strive to be the first rated part of me.
There's no such thing as floating in a spiritaul journey.
You'll either progress or revert.
life is forever happening and changing in front of me.
it all about changing with the wind or trying to go with
the flow as much as i can.
Changing or adjusting ?....well that's one of my problems.
i have a enough time with just wearing to proper clothing
for the proper seasons..lol...little stuff like that ...you'll notice.
i have a daily repreive to suit up and show up..
one of my deepest problems....
I'm more scare of living than I'm of dying...so getting wacked out
of my mind is just a symptom of that.
However don't get it confuse with working on your living problems
and you get well then go out and get drunk again.
The reason I work the steps becuase living sober was a pain in
the ass and i became more aware of my problems now that i'm not
buzz anymore. Working the 12 steps had help me live a happier
life so I don't need to drink or use anymore.
it's like a deminishing skill ..in a sense, working the 12 steps
or applying the steps in my life. Use it or loose it.
The 12 steps is not natural for me..so I always have to work on it.
My natrual state is total chaos and insanity.
I'm an alcoholic and I'll be one until the day I died.
I'm just not a drunk and I have a living program today.
I'm only one beer away from being a total maniac.
I'm still a maniac..but don't act out on it anymore..but I'm still capiable of it.
if i put alcohol in my system...it's like amplifiying that maniac 100 times.
In other words...a drunk is a total second or third rated part of me
and being clean and sober I strive to be the first rated part of me.
There's no such thing as floating in a spiritaul journey.
You'll either progress or revert.
life is forever happening and changing in front of me.
it all about changing with the wind or trying to go with
the flow as much as i can.
Changing or adjusting ?....well that's one of my problems.
i have a enough time with just wearing to proper clothing
for the proper seasons..lol...little stuff like that ...you'll notice.
i have a daily repreive to suit up and show up..
one of my deepest problems....
I'm more scare of living than I'm of dying...so getting wacked out
of my mind is just a symptom of that.
Not the center of the Universe
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Orchard Lake, Michigan
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Is there an underlying problem of which alcoholism is just a symptom which is not experienced by people who are not alcoholics?
In my experience, alcoholics don't exactly own the market on self-doubt, self-grandiosity, selfishness, over-inflated ego, under-inflated ego, plain old fear of life...
In my experience, alcoholics don't exactly own the market on self-doubt, self-grandiosity, selfishness, over-inflated ego, under-inflated ego, plain old fear of life...
Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: where the streets have no name
Posts: 1,078
Originally Posted by findingout 
Is there an underlying problem of which alcoholism is just a symptom which is not experienced by people who are not alcoholics?
In my experience, alcoholics don't exactly own the market on self-doubt, self-grandiosity, selfishness, over-inflated ego, under-inflated ego, plain old fear of life...
In my experience, alcoholics don't exactly own the market on self-doubt, self-grandiosity, selfishness, over-inflated ego, under-inflated ego, plain old fear of life...
A most excellently framed question.
You can find tons of people that suffer from the same emotional stuff recovering alc's attribute their addiction to though the multitude of those OTHER afflicted people may drink but do not become alcoholics.
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