Is Alcoholism Really Just A Symptom
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Join Date: Aug 2002
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[QUOTE=BP44;1364228]Peter, can you elaborate on your disbelief in the "dry drunk" theory? The reason I ask this is I have experienced what many including myself consider dry drunkeness. Being physically sober, but for whatever reason not emotionally, spirtually, menatally recovering.QUOTE]
The reason why I am opposed to the "dry drunk" idea is simply because we do not all recover at the same time or pace.
My brother may be having a difficult time with his recovery and I will not negate or minimize his efforts by referring to him as a "dry drunk".
The reason why I am opposed to the "dry drunk" idea is simply because we do not all recover at the same time or pace.
My brother may be having a difficult time with his recovery and I will not negate or minimize his efforts by referring to him as a "dry drunk".
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: anomaly
Posts: 2,180
there's a saying.lol
a lot of people need recovery...but recovery is for people that want it.
There's another saying...
take the alcohol out of the a-hole..there remains the a-hole.
In other words you have to work sometype of a living program.
Not drinking and using is only the first step..and that's the only
one you gatta get right. i choose the 12 steps...and there's 11
more other steps i have to work on....yes, my problems.
Somewhere along the line ..i started noticing words like
take personal inventory, charactor defects, short comings,
making amens, promtly admiited that I'm wrong in the 12 steps..
One of those ahha moments I guess.
if all I had to do was stop drinking and using I've probably graduated
decades ago.lol
if you reserch a little bit how and why AA got started...
BW didn't pull out the 12 steps out of his butt..
He tried and tired for years and years. Even Dr. Bob reseached.
After failures of tring to get sober for years or trying to lived anytype of
a sane life. BW was bascially got drunk again out of his freanken mind.
His high school buddy showed up at his house oneday and truned
him on to the steps...Would you belive it..BW the founder of AA had
a heck of a time with the steps too...but he saw results and a way out.
a lot of people need recovery...but recovery is for people that want it.
There's another saying...
take the alcohol out of the a-hole..there remains the a-hole.
In other words you have to work sometype of a living program.
Not drinking and using is only the first step..and that's the only
one you gatta get right. i choose the 12 steps...and there's 11
more other steps i have to work on....yes, my problems.
Somewhere along the line ..i started noticing words like
take personal inventory, charactor defects, short comings,
making amens, promtly admiited that I'm wrong in the 12 steps..
One of those ahha moments I guess.
if all I had to do was stop drinking and using I've probably graduated
decades ago.lol
if you reserch a little bit how and why AA got started...
BW didn't pull out the 12 steps out of his butt..
He tried and tired for years and years. Even Dr. Bob reseached.
After failures of tring to get sober for years or trying to lived anytype of
a sane life. BW was bascially got drunk again out of his freanken mind.
His high school buddy showed up at his house oneday and truned
him on to the steps...Would you belive it..BW the founder of AA had
a heck of a time with the steps too...but he saw results and a way out.
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,899
When, at an early age, I discovered that alcohol deadened the considerable emotional disturbances and lessened the behavioral symptoms derived from my experience with childhood sexual abuse. Particularly, alcohol took away the intense feelings of shame, self-loathing and self-harming behaviors. Only after numerous years of alcohol/drug abuse did those substances create greater symptoms than the ones they initially numbed.
On a tear
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Volcano Country!
Posts: 3,221
I believe the addiction to alcohol has a physical base... MOST of us experiment with using it, only some of us cannot stop.
My family is nearly 100% alcoholic... the only one working a program, is me. The model I grew up with is abstinance and "dry drunk" syndrome. The older, sober alcoholics in my family are not what I would term as "spiritually happy", but most are living a pretty good life.
My mom is the closest example for me. She has gotten from LIFE, many of the lessons the rest of us get in program. She has learned not to be SO selfish and self-centered... she has become kinder an gentler as she as matured.
Her father (now deceased) was a 38 year AA member (though I never heard his story, nor heard much program when he visited us... mostly because he was focused on the visits, I think). Mom's personality is much, much, MUCH like his. At her age, 70, she is about as serene as I remember Poppy was.
I still remember Poppy slamming crap around in the kitchen because something wasn't going his way. Mom slams stuff around in the kitchen when things don't go her way. They both yell at cars on the freeway.
Could be signs of selfishness... or impatience... or humaness.
I think program is saving my life... in many, many ways. I believe 12-step is making me a better, kinder easier person to love. But I do not believe that it is the only way to either sobriety or happiness. It is just one of the ways.
The underlying condition? I don't know. If it is there, then I believe it is inherited... a personality traits....or group of traits... that are similar among us and coexist with the tendency to become addicted.
But I don't think it matters... I think those same traits... or group of traits... also exist in some who do not have a tendency to become addicted.
We have alcohol, and the wreckage of the use of it, that we can add to our inherited personality traits. Those who didn't get addicted, perhaps only have their personalities to deal with and therefore more resources to dedicate to being "better".
Just my thoughts....
My family is nearly 100% alcoholic... the only one working a program, is me. The model I grew up with is abstinance and "dry drunk" syndrome. The older, sober alcoholics in my family are not what I would term as "spiritually happy", but most are living a pretty good life.
My mom is the closest example for me. She has gotten from LIFE, many of the lessons the rest of us get in program. She has learned not to be SO selfish and self-centered... she has become kinder an gentler as she as matured.
Her father (now deceased) was a 38 year AA member (though I never heard his story, nor heard much program when he visited us... mostly because he was focused on the visits, I think). Mom's personality is much, much, MUCH like his. At her age, 70, she is about as serene as I remember Poppy was.
I still remember Poppy slamming crap around in the kitchen because something wasn't going his way. Mom slams stuff around in the kitchen when things don't go her way. They both yell at cars on the freeway.
Could be signs of selfishness... or impatience... or humaness.
I think program is saving my life... in many, many ways. I believe 12-step is making me a better, kinder easier person to love. But I do not believe that it is the only way to either sobriety or happiness. It is just one of the ways.
The underlying condition? I don't know. If it is there, then I believe it is inherited... a personality traits....or group of traits... that are similar among us and coexist with the tendency to become addicted.
But I don't think it matters... I think those same traits... or group of traits... also exist in some who do not have a tendency to become addicted.
We have alcohol, and the wreckage of the use of it, that we can add to our inherited personality traits. Those who didn't get addicted, perhaps only have their personalities to deal with and therefore more resources to dedicate to being "better".
Just my thoughts....
Just a fool, swimming in love
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 164
Drinking is a symptom of Alcoholism
BB pg 64 "Our liquor was but a symptom. So we had to get down to causes and conditions. Therefore,we started upon a personal inventory..."
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: London
Posts: 369
I believe alcoholism is both a mental illness in and of itself and an extension of deeper issues. Nearly all alcoholics will have some narcissistic traits, tendencies towards depression and anxiety, tendencies toward introversion and introspection and perhaps a 'hole in the soul' as I've heard said many times in AA. However although problems such as these are necessary to develop alcoholism they are not sufficient conditions for the disorder. Many people have narcissistic traits and depression etc. but do not become alcoholics. That's because I believe there must also be a mental/physiological abnormality in the way an alcoholic processes the alcohol that makes the alcohol an apparently attractive solution to their issues. This leads to craving, obsession, tolerance build up and eventually the progression of kindling and withdrawal as well as progressive damage t the organs.
If you have the alcoholism (I.e the abnormal reaction to alcohol) you must deal with the issues underlying (I.e the depression, anxiety, low self esteem) in order to stop seeing alcohol as an attractive solution to these problems.
Sorry that was probably all badly articulated but yeah basic message to alcoholics: remove the poison-work on your self and hopefully you'll find peace
If you have the alcoholism (I.e the abnormal reaction to alcohol) you must deal with the issues underlying (I.e the depression, anxiety, low self esteem) in order to stop seeing alcohol as an attractive solution to these problems.
Sorry that was probably all badly articulated but yeah basic message to alcoholics: remove the poison-work on your self and hopefully you'll find peace
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Essex
Posts: 411
Was reading a great book this evening - Drop the Rock: removing character defects steps six & seven
It's got a good reminder in there that in the Big Book, just prior to discussing step four it says " our liquor was but a symptom. So we had to get down to causes & conditions"
Absolutely, I believe this. My drinking was based mainly on an aversion to reality and an inability to deal with it. Fear and self-pity were the mainstays of my life (and today depending on what kind of mood I am in....;-) and it was these that drove most of my decisions and actions. Alcohol, seemingly, helped me cope with that aversion, but coping isn't learning a new way to live. It's just coping! Who wants to just cope?! This is definitely my experience, as I am one of those who has drifted away, and come back.
Think the term 'dry drunk' is unkind....there's been lots of time throughout my recovery when this could have applied (you don't know what you don't know, right?!), but how would it have been helpful to hear that? Do hear it quite often though, that all someone has done is put the drink down, but if that's enough for them, what business is it of mine? That's their alcoholism. Far preferable is keeping my nose out of others recovery, and having the focus on my own life, and genuinely helping others if I can.
It's got a good reminder in there that in the Big Book, just prior to discussing step four it says " our liquor was but a symptom. So we had to get down to causes & conditions"
Absolutely, I believe this. My drinking was based mainly on an aversion to reality and an inability to deal with it. Fear and self-pity were the mainstays of my life (and today depending on what kind of mood I am in....;-) and it was these that drove most of my decisions and actions. Alcohol, seemingly, helped me cope with that aversion, but coping isn't learning a new way to live. It's just coping! Who wants to just cope?! This is definitely my experience, as I am one of those who has drifted away, and come back.
Think the term 'dry drunk' is unkind....there's been lots of time throughout my recovery when this could have applied (you don't know what you don't know, right?!), but how would it have been helpful to hear that? Do hear it quite often though, that all someone has done is put the drink down, but if that's enough for them, what business is it of mine? That's their alcoholism. Far preferable is keeping my nose out of others recovery, and having the focus on my own life, and genuinely helping others if I can.
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 138
My so-called underlying problems, depression and anxiety, ended when I stopped drinking.
My drinking was a symptom of my alcoholism. What you are describing may be true for others but it isn't true for me.
I am one of the people who finds the term "Dry Drunk" offensive: it's a way of saying some people are doing sobriety "wrong." To use that term is in my view to judge, a way of taking someone else's inventory, a way of saying someone else's sober journey is less than yours.
My drinking was a symptom of my alcoholism. What you are describing may be true for others but it isn't true for me.
I am one of the people who finds the term "Dry Drunk" offensive: it's a way of saying some people are doing sobriety "wrong." To use that term is in my view to judge, a way of taking someone else's inventory, a way of saying someone else's sober journey is less than yours.
2Cor5:17
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Between Doctor's opinion & pg 164
Posts: 4,187
Absolutely agree! Fear was my biggest 1 & other defects root from it. But after doing a thorough step 6 to the point it cost me my freedom for 30 days, I'm happy I know what I know now. Of course, every now & then it will try to creep back in hence doing review of day as pg86 big bk suggests b4 calling it a nite
Best wishes in the new yr
Best wishes in the new yr
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: C.C. Ma.
Posts: 3,697
Originally Posted by JustODAAT 
I am one of the people who finds the term "Dry Drunk" offensive: it's a way of saying some people are doing sobriety "wrong." To use that term is in my view to judge, a way of taking someone else's inventory, a way of saying someone else's sober journey is less than yours.
Going back before the internet was around I learned from people in the flesh that had good sobriety that their meaning of Dry Drunk as being someone, not drinking, who acts and reacts in situations as if they were drinking. In my case my reactions at times might be the same as when I was drinking, usually lasting just a few minutes but none the less there. A trigger might be thinking while watching the news regarding the goings on in Washington. This too passes.
BE WELL
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