Why is AAso religious
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
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Wouldn't it be better if God were a part discovery and not something you had to declare at your first meeting?
That is so far from the truth I am flabbergasted to think any one even the most anti AA person in the world would claim that!
Jerry I am in AA, I have a HP that I choose to call God, I have been to hundreds of meetings, I have never felt compelled in any way shape form or fashion that I or any one else needed to declare one single thing, especially a belief in a God of any sort!
Jerry I know folks who have gone to meetings for months and never said a single word!
I also know a guy who has been sober & in AA over 21 years and up until just within the last 2 or 3 months openly admitted in meetings that he just could not get beyond step 3!
Oh by the way your steps are not done in meetings, there is no declaration of any kind about any thing required of any one.
Jerry I have no problem with some one making statements about some thing they know about, but by that statement I know you have never even been to a single meeting.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Virginia
Posts: 111
I have been to meetings, so seems you are talking about something you know nothing about. Me. So settle down. 
The first thing I hear at a meeting is the serenity prayer. So you have ask yourself right then and there if you believe in God or not. Then there's the steps, should you investigate the program further. That's how I feel about it. I didn't have to get my ideas from anywhere except from me. My thoughts are my own.
I'm not anti AA or anti anything except discrimination and rape, as I feel those 2 things are wrong and everything else is up for debate.
Have a nice day.
The first thing I hear at a meeting is the serenity prayer. So you have ask yourself right then and there if you believe in God or not. Then there's the steps, should you investigate the program further. That's how I feel about it. I didn't have to get my ideas from anywhere except from me. My thoughts are my own.
I'm not anti AA or anti anything except discrimination and rape, as I feel those 2 things are wrong and everything else is up for debate.
Have a nice day.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: south east
Posts: 216
Originally Posted by Music 
So, you've been to one AA meeting and you're already ticked off about God? I wasn't on the best terms with God either, but I knew if I wanted to stop drinking, the answer sure wasn't within me, 'cause I'd tried about everything. So, my question to you is, how much do you want to stop drinking? Enough to have to deal with God? If your answer is "I'm not sure," or "I don't know," maybe you need to drink until you get desparate enough to do anything to stop drinking. Maybe you just haven't hurt enough yet. Try going to 90 meetings in 90 days and if you still don't like God, we'll refund all your misery.
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Cumming, Ga
Posts: 665
Again, if you can't get your head around the higher power concept, don't worry. Continue working on step 1. If, when you are convinced that you are powerless over alcohol, that your life has become unmanageable.....eventually you will come to believe that a power greater than yourself can restore you to sanity. I had to be convinced that no amount of self will, willpower etc. could keep me sober. I needed a power greater than me alone. For an atheist or agnostic that may have to be the group or AA as a whole. Keep coming back. Don't drink and go to a meeting!!!!
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Zion, Illinois
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Originally Posted by lanie67
I was ticked off about God long before I ever came into AA, lol. AA isn't about God and a belief in God isn't necessary to stay sober. A friend told me one of the first people he'd met in AA had marked through every word "God" in the big book with a black magic marker and at the time he was 17 years sober; he came in an atheist and stayed an atheist. There are many atheists in AA, some just use the group as a power greater than themselves, and some consider God to stand for 'good orderly direction'.
As long as you're not your higher power, anything will work, at least until it doesn't work.
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
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El Gato you are the one that said:
Did you have to declare "God" when you went to meetings?
Did any one declare "God" when you went to meetings?
Please tell me what "God" is declared at the AA meetings you have gone to.
El Gato look up God in the dictionary, the definition is not Christian, Muslim or any other religion.
In AA the word "God" is used in a generic form to acknowledge every one who has a Higher Power of thier understanding.
My Higher Power that I understand, who I chose to call "God" is not molded after any religion nor any other individuals Higher Power.
El Gato read what you posted and tell me that if some one knew nothing about AA could not read that and think to them selfs "Wow in order to go to an AA meeting I have to declare "God".
This is where I have to stand up and say some thing because you are misleading people with a statement like that.
Now if you feel using the word "God" in your opinion is a declaration of "God", then say that you feel that way, no skin off my nose, you are expressing your opinion, not misleading other people.
El Gato no one is required to do a single thing in AA, nothing, nada!
There are no rules in AA at all, it is a program of suggestions.... period.
Take what you want and leave the rest. If one wishes to leave out a Higher Power of thier understanding, or to call thier HP Charlie the Tuna, that is just fine.
El Gato below is a direct quote out of the book Alcoholics Anonymous, it is the line just before the 12 steps, it says:
Notice the bolded word "suggested", not a requirement, but suggested!
Wouldn't it be better if God were a part discovery and not something you had to declare at your first meeting?
Did any one declare "God" when you went to meetings?
Please tell me what "God" is declared at the AA meetings you have gone to.
El Gato look up God in the dictionary, the definition is not Christian, Muslim or any other religion.
In AA the word "God" is used in a generic form to acknowledge every one who has a Higher Power of thier understanding.
My Higher Power that I understand, who I chose to call "God" is not molded after any religion nor any other individuals Higher Power.
El Gato read what you posted and tell me that if some one knew nothing about AA could not read that and think to them selfs "Wow in order to go to an AA meeting I have to declare "God".
This is where I have to stand up and say some thing because you are misleading people with a statement like that.
Now if you feel using the word "God" in your opinion is a declaration of "God", then say that you feel that way, no skin off my nose, you are expressing your opinion, not misleading other people.
El Gato no one is required to do a single thing in AA, nothing, nada!
There are no rules in AA at all, it is a program of suggestions.... period.
Take what you want and leave the rest. If one wishes to leave out a Higher Power of thier understanding, or to call thier HP Charlie the Tuna, that is just fine.
El Gato below is a direct quote out of the book Alcoholics Anonymous, it is the line just before the 12 steps, it says:
Here are the steps we took, which are suggested as a program of recovery:
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Green,green grass of home
Posts: 600
whatever AA is--it works when ya work it.
rarely have we seen a person fail,who has throughly --followed ---our path.The BB,gives suggestion on what to do,if one feels that its--religious.which its not,of course.it is a spiritual program.,,
all the best,,,
rarely have we seen a person fail,who has throughly --followed ---our path.The BB,gives suggestion on what to do,if one feels that its--religious.which its not,of course.it is a spiritual program.,,
all the best,,,
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Virginia
Posts: 111
Tazman, maybe in my original post I didn't make myself clear, which has led to some misunderstandings. My bad. All I'm saying is that in my own mind I had to decide whether I believed in God or a higher power at the first meeting. If I couldn't do that, then the rest of the program would make no sense to me. I prefer a more gentle way in my spirituality, something I discover over time.
I hope you see that I am not misleading anyone as I speak for myself and no one else. If my ideas are crap then so be it. I own them and they are mine. And that feels good to me.
Take care.
I hope you see that I am not misleading anyone as I speak for myself and no one else. If my ideas are crap then so be it. I own them and they are mine. And that feels good to me.
Take care.
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
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El Gato that is cool, if it was your beleif that you needed to decide the Higher Power deal in the first meeting and you could not decide that then so be it, step 3 is where the HP thing comes into play, I beleive I shared about the guy who even with 21 years in AA had still not gotten past step 3 because of the HP deal, that was his choice, like you he was honest about it, but he stuck with the support he got in AA and stayed sober.
Hey your ideas are not crap my man, they are yours as mine are mine, if you are staying sober and happy being sober who cares, we are both where we want to be.
Hey your ideas are not crap my man, they are yours as mine are mine, if you are staying sober and happy being sober who cares, we are both where we want to be.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LA - Lower Alabama
Posts: 5,068
In how it works, there is a quote about sobriety:
"God could and would if he were sought"
And from the 2nd step:
"Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity"
Notice the bolded words above are not "found" or "believed".
So IMHO, you do not have to believe in God or a higher power, just seek him/it out. To put it another way just do not rule out the existence of God/HP, just be willing to seek it out.
I know lots of sober alcoholics that started this way and many of them have a very strong belief in a HP now, and some are atheists.
"God could and would if he were sought"
And from the 2nd step:
"Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity"
Notice the bolded words above are not "found" or "believed".
So IMHO, you do not have to believe in God or a higher power, just seek him/it out. To put it another way just do not rule out the existence of God/HP, just be willing to seek it out.
I know lots of sober alcoholics that started this way and many of them have a very strong belief in a HP now, and some are atheists.
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Missouri
Posts: 14
Originally Posted by Music
Well now, I'm really sorry that you think I'm so RUDE, and that the suggestion that you go back out seem SICK to you but the suggestion is right there in the Big Book which you'll probably stumble upon if you hang around longer that two days and go to more than one meeting. Call your higher power Bubba for all I care but don't get an attitude about AA, which has been around for some 70 odd years using God as it's central force for getting sober. Try keeping an open mind and a closed mouth for a month or so, and try reading and thinking with your mind instead of your 'feelings.'
I'm sorry to say but, Music, I find you very rude, as well. You may be sober but you are certainly very 'angry'. Your comments have made me feel horrible and I'm not even the one you are responding to...what is wrong with you? Goddess is here for support!! I will NOT go to AA because when I did I WAS pushed into the whole "God" discussion as well....and when I told them what my faith consisted of they treated me in much of the same manner that you are treating Goddess....I find that close minded and extremely hypocritical especially from someone who is acting out in the way that you are towards someone who is a 'fellow' alcoholic....someone who is trying to better themselves just as you did. I am a pagan and I don't care who knows and I don't care that you don't agree with my CHOSEN path...BUT I would NEVER treat you the way you are treating her...WOW, I just can't BELIEVE your attitude! I follow a religion that has been around far longer than 'Christianity' (no I'm not Wiccan or a devil worshipper - as alot of ppl like to accuse me of) I'm a Celtic Pagan who studies Druidry, and I have complete faith in my higher power, it has helped me through many things in my life, including alcoholism. And when I fail I don't blame my HP, I feel guilty because I've stumbled along my path.
Anyway, Goddess, I'm not telling you not to attend AA, but like others have told you above, you need to realize your OWN beliefs and not be swayed because of the "God" aspect. I live in a very conservative town and I wasn't treated very well after being honest to the others in the group - I know that they were wrong - but I don't feel that my sobriety depends on that certain group. I've found another group that is supportive of me - but they aren't a national group such as AA. I hope that, despite the obstacles you feel that are in your way, you'll continue to progress.
Blessings
~H~
Recovering Nicely
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 935
Quick question - what if you're not a spiritual person? Does that mean you can't get sober? My A is not spiritual at all, he is a good, kind, loving man who does the right thing in life (with respect to family, friends, employers, etc.), with the exception of being an alcoholic. I know for a fact he never really liked AA (he did it for many years) but he just doesn't believe that a HP is responsible for everything in life and you should just put your faith in your HP and it will all be good. It's also saying that if it's not all good, HP is responsible. And I went to many AlAnon meetings where it was just reading passages, sharing for a minute and then saying The Lord's Prayer. That really didn't help me any. I could read on my own and pray on my own, without going to a meeting, correct?
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Join Date: Aug 2002
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Originally Posted by queenteree
Quick question - what if you're not a spiritual person? Does that mean you can't get sober? My A is not spiritual at all, he is a good, kind, loving man who does the right thing in life
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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Prayer to the Great Spirit
O' Great Spirit, Whose voice we hear in the winds, and whose breath gives life to all the world, hear us!
We are small and weak. We need your strength and wisdom. Let us walk in beauty, and make our eyes ever behold the red and purple sunset. Make our hands respect the things you have made and our ears sharp to hear your voice. Make us wise so that we may understand the things you have taught our people.
Let us learn the lessons you have hidden in every leaf and rock. We seek strength, not to be greater than our brother, but to fight our greatest enemy— ourselves. Make us always ready to come to you with clean hands and straight eyes, so when life fades as the fading sunset, our spirits may come to you without shame.
Prayers from Pagans in Recovery
“Let us join in a circle of silent meditation for the purpose of sending love and healing to the lonely and suffering that wish to find us.”
Closing prayer, the Circle Chant: “I am a circle, I am healing you. You are a circle, you are healing me. Unite us, be as one. Unite us, be as one.”
O' Great Spirit, Whose voice we hear in the winds, and whose breath gives life to all the world, hear us!
We are small and weak. We need your strength and wisdom. Let us walk in beauty, and make our eyes ever behold the red and purple sunset. Make our hands respect the things you have made and our ears sharp to hear your voice. Make us wise so that we may understand the things you have taught our people.
Let us learn the lessons you have hidden in every leaf and rock. We seek strength, not to be greater than our brother, but to fight our greatest enemy— ourselves. Make us always ready to come to you with clean hands and straight eyes, so when life fades as the fading sunset, our spirits may come to you without shame.
Prayers from Pagans in Recovery
“Let us join in a circle of silent meditation for the purpose of sending love and healing to the lonely and suffering that wish to find us.”
Closing prayer, the Circle Chant: “I am a circle, I am healing you. You are a circle, you are healing me. Unite us, be as one. Unite us, be as one.”
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Zion, Illinois
Posts: 3,411
Originally Posted by una_brinne
Your comments have made me feel horrible and I'm not even the one you are responding to
You give me far too much power una. I hate to disappoint you but I can't make you feel anything you don't want to feel. That's the problem! Some of you "feel" too much and don't think at all. I seem to remember a sign in meetings that said, "THINK, THINK, THINK". I don't see anything there about FEEL!!! Anyone who comes to an AA meeting where I'm at, with two days sober, and at his first meeting, and starts bitching about God will find himself hearing just what I said. So una, if something I say bothers you, disregard it, and from here on out, if goddess has anything to say to me, allow her to say it and stop being co-dependent by standing up in her defense.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,444
hmmm..I don't believe I'm being co-dependent when I stand up in anyone's defense, or if I agree with another post, or even if I sympathise with how someone else is feeling...
this is a forum after all...we're dealing with people, not buzzwords.
I plead Voltaire:
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it.
D
this is a forum after all...we're dealing with people, not buzzwords.
I plead Voltaire:
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it.
D
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Gee Dee..I always thought that was an orginal quote
by Patrick Henry addressing the Va. House of Burgess!
And here on our Alcoholism Forum I find I might be incorrect.
I think the honest exchange of our personal experiences
is the key for sharing..
Sooo....let's all move forward with respect please.
Thanks
by Patrick Henry addressing the Va. House of Burgess!
And here on our Alcoholism Forum I find I might be incorrect.
I think the honest exchange of our personal experiences
is the key for sharing..
Sooo....let's all move forward with respect please.
Thanks
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Missouri
Posts: 14
Originally Posted by Music
You give me far too much power una. I hate to disappoint you but I can't make you feel anything you don't want to feel. That's the problem! Some of you "feel" too much and don't think at all. I seem to remember a sign in meetings that said, "THINK, THINK, THINK". I don't see anything there about FEEL!!! Anyone who comes to an AA meeting where I'm at, with two days sober, and at his first meeting, and starts bitching about God will find himself hearing just what I said. So una, if something I say bothers you, disregard it, and from here on out, if goddess has anything to say to me, allow her to say it and stop being co-dependent by standing up in her defense.
Anyway...Goddess I'm sorry that all of this ... *sigh*
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