carl250r

AA is a system ,it is a plan to help your self and quit drinking, they use GOD or power or something to put stuff on, and use for strength. that is what AA is all about.well probably not what it is all about, but thats it in my poorly formed nut shell.

there is another option it is simple, JUST QUIT DRINKING.

some people use the steps and GOD. couse they need them.

If you dont need them don't use them.
You can allways talk about addiction without any form or plan if that is what you like.
that is what i like .

I have not been more that 2 weeks without drinking sence i was in my early teens.

i can have only one beer, but so far i have not been able to have less than that.
the thing is i like to drink if i want to drink. but i go to far sometimes ,and i don't like that.

i can't get into a god to help me because to truely belive in the supernatural "like rising from the dead and ghosts and witches and heaven and hell ,and creation LOL"is the definition of insainity as far as i am concerned.

Sugah

Wow, dude...I sure am glad I was able to find an understanding of god I could accept and live with. Ghosts and witches give me the heebie jeebies, and if anything dead got up and walked away while I was watching, I think I'd keel over. As far as heaven goes... I really don't know the rules, so I probably wouldn't be "on the list" so I'd have to hang around outside when I got there, and as for hell, well, I could tell you stories...

Peace & Love,
Sugah
(in a teasing mood, mind you...)

BP44

The steps are written in order for a reason. If you still have control and power over alcohol, why on earth would you even think about believing that a power greater than yourself could restore you to sanity? Honesty is an absolute necessity to working thoroughly the first step. If my life is not unmanageable, why would I need to be restored to sanity? A complete understanding of my powerlessness and unmanageability is required before I can proceed to the 2nd step. Otherwise, all pontification about higher beings, supreme being, God, etc. is pointless and moot. Afterall, as long as I'm in control over my life and my drinking, I don't need a higher power. If you haven't thoroughly worked the 1st step with a sponsor, I'd highly suggest it. You may find yourself being more openminded afterwards than you thought you'd be. I will also say that it is amazing how threads about higher power and God always seem to reveal anger and resentment. it doesn't take long to see people take other's inventories either. Keep coming back.

Grizzled

Of course, you have the right to speak anyway you wish, but I think you are misinterpreting Music's good intensions.

I saw no disrespect or derogotory comments in his post, methinks you may be projecting a wee bit too much.

Spiritual Seeker

God is a easy target to take offense and give up on AA too easy. Ignore it and just know that doing it by your self got you where you are. Give it up, surrender to any higher power idea beyond yourself. Don't over think it, just make friends in the meetings and follow along.

SaTiT

gee wizz man you can gogle up Buddha and READ, if you can THINK.
Buddhaism do not beliving in a HP or GOD...I heard they spiritaul people thou.
But nobody in AA gose around handing out buddhas.

Nobody forced god on me in AA..Well, nobody forced into AA either

All they say was ..Keep coming back.
the bar is across the street. when you're done let us know
or we'll read about anywho.

Obviouely, I kept getting drunk..not becuase AA didn't work..
I had a living problem, alot of pain, hurt ,anger and depression.
I rather get wacked out of my freaken mind into oblivien
god or the boogie man..I didn't care.

anyhow..god and hp is cool and all..
I'm glad my GF dosn't have silicone implants...I like to get hands on them,
not Near them

findingout

Speaking of Buddha and A.A., I just finished a book called "12 Steps on Buddha's Path: Bill, Buddha, and We". The author does a great job of describing her journey through recovery and providing an example of a person who "worked the steps to the best of her ability" without a higher power based on Western/Christian theology.

Worth reading just for her discussion of the 12 Steps and how she did them. If I had read this book back when I was first starting out, I think it would have made things a little bit easier for me.

barb dwyer

The first time I was in AA, I had a problem with all the 'God this' and 'God that' stuff, too. I have led an exceedingly Spiritual life, you see. Not religious. Not even a little bit. But over the top Spiritual.
Then I lost that faith.
That ... was when I started drinking like the alcoholic I am. I was drinking to die.
The first time I came to the rooms of AA, I was broken, that was five years ago.
I got to step three ...
and couldn't do it.
Not because I didn't believe in a Greater Spirit ... but because I'd have to 'own' all that I was before I started drinking. I'd have to 'go back' to being that Spiritual person.
I couldn't do it.
I didn't draw a sober breath for the next five years.
I'm wiser now.
I've tasted death from alcoholism.

Bottom line:
I go to AA to save my life.
What's left of it.
I don't go to hear what I want to hear. I go now to hear what my own understanding of HP says through the members of that Fellowship.
What goes on between me and my HP is between me and my HP.
Same goes for you.

My HP ... isn't afraid of not being in the majority of the groups perception.
The God of my understanding ... made the stars.
It isn't worried about what I'm calling It.
It only cares THAT I call It.

Tazman53

Carl I highly reccommend you read the chapter "To The Agnostic", actually I would reccommend reading pages 1-164 and find one place where a specific "God"/"Higher Power" is even suggested. I should save you the time reading it and tell you it is not there.

This is from Chapter 4 of the BB:
Another part of Chapter 4 of the BB:
It is so hard for many of us. myself included at first until I looked at AA with an open mind to realize that there is no religion involved in AA, spirituality is key, not church or a religion.

So many of us stay drunk or miserable because we can not see the forest because of the trees! We see the word "God" and immediately tie it to a religion or church.

All it takes is a HP, the name does not matter, all that matters is that it is a HP that you understand, good post findingout.
Well said Barb, once some one drops thier prejudice against a mere word that they do not understand the real meaning of, they begin to understand it is not religion.

Music

Una, what you think of me, or the way you feel about me or anything I say is none of my business. If you feel a need to defend goddess, you go right ahead. If you feel a need to vent your frustration at something I said, please do. Just keep in mind that although I may say the words in my own fashion, every point I made can be found in the Big Book. So, maybe you should take your problem up with the authors of the Big Book. Actually, the Big Book was toned down some so that overly sensitive alcoholics wouldn't get their feelings hurt, so one could say that political correctness was alive and well even back in those days. Having said that, maybe you should call your sponsor and work on your resentment.

GrouchoTheCat

Ya know, I used to get in trouble in school and stull because I was impulsive and just could not resist some things.............

For Doorknob.....

Our spaghetti
Who art in the colander
Hallowed be thy sauce
Thy serving come
Thy strands be wrung
On forks as they are on spoons
Give us this day our daily meatball
And forgive us our starchiness
As we forgive those who are starchy against us
And lead us not into Kraft parmessan
But deliver us from Chef Boy Ardee
For thine is the garlic
And the onion and the bay leaves
For ever and ever.
Ramen


Fromt the Druids Prayer comes this:

Grant, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, thy sauce;
and in sauce, noodles;
and in noodles, meatballs;
and in meatballs, knowledge;
and from knowledge, knowledge of what is tasty;
and from knowledge of what is tasty, the love of spaghetti;
and from spaghetti, the love of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

RAmen

From the Hare Krishna Mantra comes this:

Spaghetti Monster Spaghetti Monster
Monster Monster Spaghetti Spaghetti
Spaghetti Raman Spaghetti Raman
Raman Raman Spaghetti Spaghetti

Sneaking quietly away,

Ted

SaTiT

oki doki, how in the hell I'm i going to rule the world if i can't even rule over myself ?

Let there be peace on earth and let it beging with me.

CarolD

LOL Ted!

Mercedes1

....." went to my first AA meeting last night and was appaled that it was so religious.. Its not that I am an athiest but maybe I have a different higher power than God.The religious aspect to AA is making me not realy want to go to the meetings .If Ineeded a dose of God then I would go to church or talk to somebody religious...."

Sounds to me you like being in control. IMO, go on doing what you are doing if you prefer to do it my way. AA is not what you want it to be but what it is.

First, going to church does help but if you are an alchoholic is not enough in terms of seeking God's help. For me, most (not all) but most, religious people did not identfify with this personal area of my life.

First off, Religion (to me) is man trying to reach God. The true relationship with God tha is life chaging, is allowing Him reaching you.

If you are like me, that was not enough. At some point in my life I became numb to the Bible and the promises. I believed, and was very greatful for all who God is and has done for me. I read the Bible daily..still do. But I can tell you, since AA I have a much deeper respect and relationship to God.

However, for a very long time, I stayed away from AA for the opposite reason you have. I thought the "higher power" stuff was taking the ownership away from God. A cult.. For instance, I thought it was ridiculous to believe God was whatever you made Him to be instead of who He was. Some how believing God was a chair was as insane as my thinking I could manage drink.

However, in coming to AA I refound my faith. The difference was God found me. Drink was to me more than just a handicap, weakness, character flaw. It had an anchor between me and God. This, my freind, required much more of God's face than a casual sermon or speaking to a "religious" person who could not idenify. I needed a disciplined, simple program to guide me back to God.

For me, I have a tendancy to do too much too soon and the result was not enough. AA brought the process down to a simple, step format ..and in that format took a huge pressure off MY WILL AND WAY and gave it back to God. I am still accountable..but now God has my back..so to speak. He doesn't expect perfection, just dependence. Alittle at a time..and now my faith is stronger than ever.

Why is God in AA? BECAUSE YOU NEED HIM IF YOU WANT TO GET SOBER AND STAY SOBER!!

In closing, many people had no faith at all coming in to AA. Some get sober and choose to continue to claim their HP as themselves, a chair, nature (God's creation..certainly not Him)...or whatever. So be it. It is possible to leverage His WAY..if you will without every acknowledging Him. No different than your life is certainly better if you choose to not touch a hot stove. You don't have to believe in the stove or not..but if you follow the principal to not touch the burners when they are hot, you live better than if you did. But that kind of living..although you benefit, doesnt give you insight, health, discerment, joy, confidence, direction and purpose..it just gives you the immediate freedom of a nasty burn. But just like life is more than a burning stove ..so there is more behind your drink.

This program is not about you getting whatyou WANT ..to me, the basis of this program is getting what you need.

GrouchoTheCat

Wow, what a statement and how very true.

I never had a problem with the God concept. I always believed in a loving, compassionate and forgiving God. I believe that God carried me many times.

I know that there are many people in recovery that turned their back on God, often early in life. I once heard a powerful speaker talk about how he prayed and prayed that his father would stop drinking. When it never worked, he shut the door on God.

Some were raised to fear God and always believed that God was punishing and harsh.

Some don't even believe in a God.

Alcohol was my God for years. I often felt at peace when drunk.

Now I feel at peace when sober, not all of the time but more and more.

"I give you peace, My peace I give you"

So anyway, whatever your beliefs, I hope that everyone can find peace.

Ted

paulmh

Amen to that Ted.

Some peace after all that turmoil? It's just indescribable.

I don't believe in a personal G*d, at least not particularly. But I'll happily say a prayer that everyone who needs some peace in their life can find it, whichever way they can.

karlee

I stopped going to meetings was because the group I went to was very anti-God...
All the other groups are about 30 minute drive myself..Then the meetings are at night in bad parts of town..I am a Christian and am religious. Some of the things that
people said and did at the group I was attending was disgusting to me.

Tazman53

karlee that is one I have never heard of before, I do not doubt you in the least though, each group in AA is autonomous so this really should not surprise me.

You know karlee there is nothing to stop you from seeing if some of the folks in other meetings might not like to form a group with you in your area that is more to your liking.

doorknob

What makes them spiritual rather than secular?

doorknob

But FSM is a parody...

I think for many people, when they complain that AA is religious, what they mean is that it's not secular, so the whole spiritual/religious dichotomy doesn't help much. It's still a faith based support group and program.