Why?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,583
Why?
I went to church this morning. It was my 3rd time and it was so beautiful. I just feel so grateful to be alive and sober and to be given this 2nd chance at life.
As my daughter had decided to stay with her friends instead of come with me, I took advantage of a child friendly afternoon and followed up with a meeting. It was a great meeting however....
..... there were quite a few people in there back from relapses. Pretty hideous ones too. Also one guy at the meeting was saying how he had just seen "one of us"at the pub opposite, drinking and looking terrible.
I know we are all alcoholics and drinking was what we did. I know for me, wanting to drink is ingrained into me, it is only through the Grace of God and the programme and fellowship of AA that I do not pick up. But now I am alone in bed with just my head and i am starting to feel full of fear. Why so many relapses? When there is a solution and the people that relapsed know what the solution is.?? Have lived in the solution. Some for many many years.
I will discuss with my sponsor tomorrow but I am pretty sure what she will say to me. But I feel I just need to out it now. Get it written down. Just feeling a bit fearful at the moment so thanks for letting me get it out.
As my daughter had decided to stay with her friends instead of come with me, I took advantage of a child friendly afternoon and followed up with a meeting. It was a great meeting however....
..... there were quite a few people in there back from relapses. Pretty hideous ones too. Also one guy at the meeting was saying how he had just seen "one of us"at the pub opposite, drinking and looking terrible.
I know we are all alcoholics and drinking was what we did. I know for me, wanting to drink is ingrained into me, it is only through the Grace of God and the programme and fellowship of AA that I do not pick up. But now I am alone in bed with just my head and i am starting to feel full of fear. Why so many relapses? When there is a solution and the people that relapsed know what the solution is.?? Have lived in the solution. Some for many many years.
I will discuss with my sponsor tomorrow but I am pretty sure what she will say to me. But I feel I just need to out it now. Get it written down. Just feeling a bit fearful at the moment so thanks for letting me get it out.
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,615
The why is a huge question. Maybe they knew the solution and did not apply it, maybe they had never been told the solution, maybe they were trying to do it some other way that they "heard" in a meeting, maybe they didn't think they needed to take the same action, maybe they thought that though their unique approach, was good enough because it was working for them right up until it wasn't, maybe they didn't really want to stop drinking, maybe they caught the relapse infection.
Relapse infection is a real thing. Sister Ignatia observed and commented on it many years ago. She noted that groups (in the hospital) which had a member who had relapsed, had a lower recovery rate than those with no relapsers. That might be with how the alcholic mind treats such infomation. Experts tell us that relapse is very dangerous and often fatal, but there right in front of our eyes are people who got away with it - maybe I can too.
Who knows? I believe God uses us all, sometimes as an example of what to do and sometimes what not to do. We aint the only ones that learn from our mistakes.
Relapse infection is a real thing. Sister Ignatia observed and commented on it many years ago. She noted that groups (in the hospital) which had a member who had relapsed, had a lower recovery rate than those with no relapsers. That might be with how the alcholic mind treats such infomation. Experts tell us that relapse is very dangerous and often fatal, but there right in front of our eyes are people who got away with it - maybe I can too.
Who knows? I believe God uses us all, sometimes as an example of what to do and sometimes what not to do. We aint the only ones that learn from our mistakes.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Why so many relapses? When there is a solution and the people that relapsed know what the solution is.?? Have lived in the solution. Some for many many years.
good questions,snitch- ones with many different answers.
i went through a phase a bit ago of,"how come ive managed to stay sober as long as i have and others cant? how come im not a chronic relapser or one that dies from alcoholism?"
the best answer i came up to that-and one that my sponsor said when i posed
questions similar as yours to him:
it is what it is.
however, i have seen people with many years sober drink again and were fortunate to make it back. the common denominator in the reason they went out:
they rested on their laurels.
p.s.
some fears are healthy fears.
good questions,snitch- ones with many different answers.
i went through a phase a bit ago of,"how come ive managed to stay sober as long as i have and others cant? how come im not a chronic relapser or one that dies from alcoholism?"
the best answer i came up to that-and one that my sponsor said when i posed
questions similar as yours to him:
it is what it is.
however, i have seen people with many years sober drink again and were fortunate to make it back. the common denominator in the reason they went out:
they rested on their laurels.
p.s.
some fears are healthy fears.
It`s ok to stay sober
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central NC
Posts: 20,903
Last Tueday night we lost a guy who I first met in AA in 1987
he was in and out all these years.He od`ed
don`t matter,he is just as dead.
I have seen so many go back out and die I can`t remember them all,just a fleeting thought now and then of em
over a 100....maybe 150...
I came to AA once for a year,in and out
why didn`t I stay sober?I wasn`t ready to do the steps until after my last binge,then I was ready
why do alcoholics go get drunk?Cause we`re alcoholics
we still have a solution to live and carry to those who want it and are willing
so lets carry the message
he was in and out all these years.He od`ed
don`t matter,he is just as dead.
I have seen so many go back out and die I can`t remember them all,just a fleeting thought now and then of em
over a 100....maybe 150...
I came to AA once for a year,in and out
why didn`t I stay sober?I wasn`t ready to do the steps until after my last binge,then I was ready
why do alcoholics go get drunk?Cause we`re alcoholics
we still have a solution to live and carry to those who want it and are willing
so lets carry the message
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,583
Thanks for your responses. I absolutely love the wisdom that is shared here.
I prayed alot tonight. I don't ever want to go back to that dark hole I was in before and just one drink will take me back there. Hearing those relapse stories is a stark reminder of what is waiting for me if I pick up a drink. I will pray to remain willing and teachable. Throw myself into my recovery. Keep working the steps. It helps that I love it. I adore the Big Book and the steps. They are changing me and my whole outlook on life. I love church. And I can go into meetings and share what is working for me in order to stay sober and maybe that might just help one person.
So funny, I have a whole shelf and then some of recovery books that I bought thought my drinking "career".. I never knew Ithere was only one I needed. But now I do know. Thank God 🙏
Ahhhh the fear has gone.
Thank you 🙏♥️
I prayed alot tonight. I don't ever want to go back to that dark hole I was in before and just one drink will take me back there. Hearing those relapse stories is a stark reminder of what is waiting for me if I pick up a drink. I will pray to remain willing and teachable. Throw myself into my recovery. Keep working the steps. It helps that I love it. I adore the Big Book and the steps. They are changing me and my whole outlook on life. I love church. And I can go into meetings and share what is working for me in order to stay sober and maybe that might just help one person.
So funny, I have a whole shelf and then some of recovery books that I bought thought my drinking "career".. I never knew Ithere was only one I needed. But now I do know. Thank God 🙏
Ahhhh the fear has gone.
Thank you 🙏♥️
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,583
Thought I'd just do some BB reading and turned to How it Works. First paragraph.
Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not
recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest
YEP!
Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not
recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest
YEP!
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
ive heard at meetings:
'if ya dont remember your last drunk ya havent had it yet."
i was a blackout drinker.dont remember my last drunk. the day after? i remember quite a bit of how i felt THAT day.
something about that first line of how it works:
Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path.
take 2 words, change their position and it makes another true sentence
thoroughly have we seen a person fail who has rarely followed our path.
'if ya dont remember your last drunk ya havent had it yet."
i was a blackout drinker.dont remember my last drunk. the day after? i remember quite a bit of how i felt THAT day.
something about that first line of how it works:
Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path.
take 2 words, change their position and it makes another true sentence
thoroughly have we seen a person fail who has rarely followed our path.
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely
give themselves to this simple program.....They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty.
Knowing this from How It Works, it used to be easy for me to get judgmental of slippers. "Oh, they just didn't COMPLETELY surrender to the program," or "Yeah, he's just not willing to get honest with himself." I would judge others as less than, presume myself to be doing better, get a feeling of satisfaction, and think how lucky I was to be working a REAL program - not like thoooooose folks.
Who was sicker, the people who'd been relapsing but desperately looking for a solution but don't really know the truth or me sitting there playing God even though I knew better than to do it? O sure, I'd compleeeeetely given myself to the simple program - lol, right! How many times in just the past week did I sink into morbid reflection, revel in judgment, decide I was the solution to a problem and not consult the God of my choosing, believe it was ok to dislike and resent someone and so forth......... all the while thinking "well, at least I won't get drunk over this stuff." All those times I DIDN'T work the program in ways and places where I knew better. Look at how many times I didn't pause when irritated and take a moment to seek God. And then the capper - in the 17 or so hours I was awake yesterday.......just how many of those hours did I spend "seeking God" vs how many did I spend seeking self interest, self fulfillment, and selfish motives? ........... yet there I sit, proclaiming that I'm on the right path. Craziness......delusion!
I think it's possible that God presents us with people demonstrating behaviors that we ourselves are also guilty of...... my trouble with "those people" is usually that I see them doing things that I myself are doing - perhaps they're just doing it a liiiiittle differently but at the core, we're very similar.
Since my problems are of MY making (not others), and since it's been basically proven that I'm full of self-will run riot - though I don't usually think so - the challenge for me is to see how those people I'm guilty of judging are just like me and I'm just like them. Rather hypocritical of me to say I'm following God's path as I sit here judging others, thinking myself better than others, and thinking that I can try and assume God's role while at the same time considering myself a follower of God. When I look at things HONESTLY like that.... chances are those "slippers" are probably doing even better than me given all the things I know to do that I don't vs. them who may not know better and are doing the best they can with what they have.
Not everyone has wonderful sponsorship.....not everyone KNOWS the program well enough to talk about it. So....they talk about what they've been taught to talk about or what they understand. You know how many people with 2 months, 2 years, 5 years, 10 years of sobriety who say something at a meeting that makes me just cringe? But then I have to think back - wasn't I SAYING some goofy stuff at 1 month, 1 year, 5 years......and probably even today? Won't I likely learn and experience things during the coming year that help me realize that some of the thinking I have TODAY is off? Does that make me an idiot now? Of course not. Today I share what I know and what I have experience with - just like everyone else does. One of MY JOBS is to help those people, in a way that's attractive to THEM, to understand a little better. Am I and have I been doing my job.........or have I just been sitting back judging?
give themselves to this simple program.....They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty.
Knowing this from How It Works, it used to be easy for me to get judgmental of slippers. "Oh, they just didn't COMPLETELY surrender to the program," or "Yeah, he's just not willing to get honest with himself." I would judge others as less than, presume myself to be doing better, get a feeling of satisfaction, and think how lucky I was to be working a REAL program - not like thoooooose folks.
Who was sicker, the people who'd been relapsing but desperately looking for a solution but don't really know the truth or me sitting there playing God even though I knew better than to do it? O sure, I'd compleeeeetely given myself to the simple program - lol, right! How many times in just the past week did I sink into morbid reflection, revel in judgment, decide I was the solution to a problem and not consult the God of my choosing, believe it was ok to dislike and resent someone and so forth......... all the while thinking "well, at least I won't get drunk over this stuff." All those times I DIDN'T work the program in ways and places where I knew better. Look at how many times I didn't pause when irritated and take a moment to seek God. And then the capper - in the 17 or so hours I was awake yesterday.......just how many of those hours did I spend "seeking God" vs how many did I spend seeking self interest, self fulfillment, and selfish motives? ........... yet there I sit, proclaiming that I'm on the right path. Craziness......delusion!
I think it's possible that God presents us with people demonstrating behaviors that we ourselves are also guilty of...... my trouble with "those people" is usually that I see them doing things that I myself are doing - perhaps they're just doing it a liiiiittle differently but at the core, we're very similar.
Since my problems are of MY making (not others), and since it's been basically proven that I'm full of self-will run riot - though I don't usually think so - the challenge for me is to see how those people I'm guilty of judging are just like me and I'm just like them. Rather hypocritical of me to say I'm following God's path as I sit here judging others, thinking myself better than others, and thinking that I can try and assume God's role while at the same time considering myself a follower of God. When I look at things HONESTLY like that.... chances are those "slippers" are probably doing even better than me given all the things I know to do that I don't vs. them who may not know better and are doing the best they can with what they have.
Not everyone has wonderful sponsorship.....not everyone KNOWS the program well enough to talk about it. So....they talk about what they've been taught to talk about or what they understand. You know how many people with 2 months, 2 years, 5 years, 10 years of sobriety who say something at a meeting that makes me just cringe? But then I have to think back - wasn't I SAYING some goofy stuff at 1 month, 1 year, 5 years......and probably even today? Won't I likely learn and experience things during the coming year that help me realize that some of the thinking I have TODAY is off? Does that make me an idiot now? Of course not. Today I share what I know and what I have experience with - just like everyone else does. One of MY JOBS is to help those people, in a way that's attractive to THEM, to understand a little better. Am I and have I been doing my job.........or have I just been sitting back judging?
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 700
I’ve sponsored many chronic relapsers .. The ones that are able to stay sober are the ones that do what the big book asks them to do, and after time it becomes their life. Seems with each one there a big awakening that takes place. Some big thing that was missing seems to click in place.
Also my Dad was a chronic relapser, couldn’t stay sober for 3 months over 10 years.. after his 7th treatment, something clicked. He told me he saw the real truth of what he really was. He died with 28 years of sobriety, many of those employed as an AODA counselor.
I just hope and pray a higher power will keep those still suffering safe so they can find the miracle.
Also my Dad was a chronic relapser, couldn’t stay sober for 3 months over 10 years.. after his 7th treatment, something clicked. He told me he saw the real truth of what he really was. He died with 28 years of sobriety, many of those employed as an AODA counselor.
I just hope and pray a higher power will keep those still suffering safe so they can find the miracle.
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
This line (regarding relapse) always puts a bit of a lump in my throat when I read it or think about it:
For if an alcoholic failed to perfect and enlarge his spiritual life through work and self-sacrifice for others, he could not survive the certain trials and low spots ahead.
Now if it only said enlarge, I'd still be a little nervous because I know I'm guilty of stagnating and/or resting on my laurels from time to time. I'd bet, however, Bill put "perfect" in there for a reason. I find that work "perfect" manages to keep the reader motivated to continue to seek spiritual growth and higher levels of service to people other than myself...... at least up until the time when I've PERFECTED the practice.
Anyone here have it perfected yet?
.......I thought not.
Looks like we all better continue take part in the process.
For if an alcoholic failed to perfect and enlarge his spiritual life through work and self-sacrifice for others, he could not survive the certain trials and low spots ahead.
Now if it only said enlarge, I'd still be a little nervous because I know I'm guilty of stagnating and/or resting on my laurels from time to time. I'd bet, however, Bill put "perfect" in there for a reason. I find that work "perfect" manages to keep the reader motivated to continue to seek spiritual growth and higher levels of service to people other than myself...... at least up until the time when I've PERFECTED the practice.
Anyone here have it perfected yet?
.......I thought not.
Looks like we all better continue take part in the process.
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
Originally Posted by nez 
why?
restless, irritable, and discontent that festers
coupled with inaction (or worse backwards)
complacency coupled with inaction
restless, irritable, and discontent that festers
coupled with inaction (or worse backwards)
complacency coupled with inaction
I both love it and hate it when someone says, in 16 words, what it took me a thousand to say......LOL.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,583
Thanks for all your replies.
I wasn't judging anyone who relapses. I hope it didnt come across that way. I am just so fearful of relapsing and I wondered why so many when we know what the solution is. It scares me so much to think about going back to where I was
I am no different than any other allies in the rooms. No better nor worse. It has sunk into me what it says in the book. I get a daily reprieve contigent on the maintenance of my spiritual condition. I can see where that may elude some people at some times in their lives. I've been close to it myself before. But I dont want to drink.and I dont want to go back to where I was so I will work this on a daily basis, even harder when I feel myself slacking off. It's the only way. For me. And by me staying sober I can carry the message to those who still suffer. Today I choose to live in the solution.
I wasn't judging anyone who relapses. I hope it didnt come across that way. I am just so fearful of relapsing and I wondered why so many when we know what the solution is. It scares me so much to think about going back to where I was
I am no different than any other allies in the rooms. No better nor worse. It has sunk into me what it says in the book. I get a daily reprieve contigent on the maintenance of my spiritual condition. I can see where that may elude some people at some times in their lives. I've been close to it myself before. But I dont want to drink.and I dont want to go back to where I was so I will work this on a daily basis, even harder when I feel myself slacking off. It's the only way. For me. And by me staying sober I can carry the message to those who still suffer. Today I choose to live in the solution.
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