My Looking Good Is Not Feeling Good
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: vanc., wa.
Posts: 16
My Looking Good Is Not Feeling Good
ALL ALL ALL
HI EVERYBODY,
I WANTED TO SHARE WITH YOU SOME THING'S THAT I'VE BEEN
GETTING TO DO, AND THAT IS TAKE SOME OF MY OWN INVENTORY.
ON SOME DIFFERENT LEVEL'S, MEETING'S AND HOW I FUNCTION WITHIN THEM.
I'VE BEEN HEARING SOME THING'S THAT I HAVEN'T HEARD BEFORE
IN MEETING'S.
SEE I'VE BEEN TORN BETWEEN A COUPLE OF DIFFERANT APPROCHES AND SEE THEM IN OTHER'S.
1.
"SHUT YOUR TRAP AND LISTEN!" I HEAR THAT LOUD AND CLEAR
BUT HOW DO I EXPRESS WERE I'M AT FOR THE ONE'S THAT GET
SOMETHING OUT OF WHAT I'M SAYING?
THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO GET SOMETHING OUT OF ANYTHING YOU SAY WHETHER IT BE PATIENCE, TOLERANCE, IDENTIFICATION,
HOPE, AND THE LIST CAN GO ON.
SO BACK TO THE POINT.
THIS KEPT ME FROM SAYING ANYTHING. THIS WAS GOOD AND BAD. GOOD BECAUSE I DIDN'T HAVE TO BE ALL CAUGHT UP IN;
WHAT DO I SAY TO SOUND SMART OR COOL AND I COULD WORK ON MY LISTENING SKILL'S.
BAD BECAUSE I'M NOT A REAL SOCIAL GUY BEFORE AND AFTER THE MEETING. AND DON'T KNOW ALOT OF PEOPLE.
2.
QUOTE OUT OF THE BOOK LIKE MACHINE WORD FOR WORD
(THIS MADE ME SICKER; FROM THE HEAD INSTEAD OF THE HEART)
3.
FEED OFF WHAT OTHER'S ARE SAYING, GO WITH THE FLOW;
HAPPY THIS HAPPY THAT OR PISSY THIS, YOU GET THE POINT
OR DO THE OPPOSITE OF WHATEVER THE VIBE IS, TO BE DIFFERANT. (THIS ALSO MADE ME SICKER)
4.
EXPERIENCE, STRENGTH & HOPE
FOR A COMPLICATED GUY LIKE MYSELF THIS TAKE'S PRACTISE
(COMPLICATED DOES NOT EQUAL INTELLIGENCE)
SO FAR MY STORY IS ALL CRAZY AND HARD TO GET OUT.
BUT WHAT DO I KNOW FOR SURE!
(LIKE MY SPONSOR SAY'S)
WELL I KNOW MY SOBRIETY DATE.
I KNOW I HAVE A SPONSOR.
I PRACTISE THE STEP'S DAILY TO THE BEST OF MY ABILITY.
GRATITUDE IS KEY TO A POSITIVE OUTLOOK.
TRUST THE PROGRAM/TRUST GOD OR H.P.
CLEAN HOUSE.
HELP OTHER'S.
AND WHAT ARE MY FEELING'S?
AND WHAT IS THE SOLUTION?
HONESTY, IS A BIG ONE FOR ME.
THAT'S THE ONE I'M TRYING TO HONE NOW.
IF I'M SIDEWAY'S IN MY THINKING HOW WILL OTHER'S KNOW
UNLESS I SHARE MY BRILLENT PLAN OR WHATEVER IT MAY BE.
FOR THE TIME BEING I'M JUST GONNA BE HONEST, AND IF I'M NOT
SURE IF I'M CAPABLE, I'LL EXPRESS A DEEP SECRET ABOUT MYSELF
IN ORDER TO TAP THAT SOURCE.
ANYWAY'S I'M ALMOST SURE I LEFT SOMETHING OUT BUT OH WELL
I'M ALLOWED TO MAKE MISTAKE'S TODAY, CAUSE OF THIS PROGRAM, YOU AND GOD.
I'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET RID OF MY "SELECTIVE HONESTY".
IT POP'S UP ALL THE TIME.
I WAS TOLD THERE IS 3 KIND'S OF HONESTY;
1. PEOPLE MASTERBATE. (HONESTY)
2. I MASTERBATE. (RIGORIOUS HONESTY)
3. I MASTERBATE THINKING OF YOU. (BRUTLE HONESTY)
I HOPE THIS ISN'T TOO CRUDE BUT IT'S A GREAT EXAMPLE.
THANK'S FOR LISTENING
AND THANK'S FOR 12 STEPPING ME
JACK B.
HI EVERYBODY,
I WANTED TO SHARE WITH YOU SOME THING'S THAT I'VE BEEN
GETTING TO DO, AND THAT IS TAKE SOME OF MY OWN INVENTORY.
ON SOME DIFFERENT LEVEL'S, MEETING'S AND HOW I FUNCTION WITHIN THEM.
I'VE BEEN HEARING SOME THING'S THAT I HAVEN'T HEARD BEFORE
IN MEETING'S.
SEE I'VE BEEN TORN BETWEEN A COUPLE OF DIFFERANT APPROCHES AND SEE THEM IN OTHER'S.
1.
"SHUT YOUR TRAP AND LISTEN!" I HEAR THAT LOUD AND CLEAR
BUT HOW DO I EXPRESS WERE I'M AT FOR THE ONE'S THAT GET
SOMETHING OUT OF WHAT I'M SAYING?
THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO GET SOMETHING OUT OF ANYTHING YOU SAY WHETHER IT BE PATIENCE, TOLERANCE, IDENTIFICATION,
HOPE, AND THE LIST CAN GO ON.
SO BACK TO THE POINT.
THIS KEPT ME FROM SAYING ANYTHING. THIS WAS GOOD AND BAD. GOOD BECAUSE I DIDN'T HAVE TO BE ALL CAUGHT UP IN;
WHAT DO I SAY TO SOUND SMART OR COOL AND I COULD WORK ON MY LISTENING SKILL'S.
BAD BECAUSE I'M NOT A REAL SOCIAL GUY BEFORE AND AFTER THE MEETING. AND DON'T KNOW ALOT OF PEOPLE.
2.
QUOTE OUT OF THE BOOK LIKE MACHINE WORD FOR WORD
(THIS MADE ME SICKER; FROM THE HEAD INSTEAD OF THE HEART)
3.
FEED OFF WHAT OTHER'S ARE SAYING, GO WITH THE FLOW;
HAPPY THIS HAPPY THAT OR PISSY THIS, YOU GET THE POINT
OR DO THE OPPOSITE OF WHATEVER THE VIBE IS, TO BE DIFFERANT. (THIS ALSO MADE ME SICKER)
4.
EXPERIENCE, STRENGTH & HOPE
FOR A COMPLICATED GUY LIKE MYSELF THIS TAKE'S PRACTISE
(COMPLICATED DOES NOT EQUAL INTELLIGENCE)
SO FAR MY STORY IS ALL CRAZY AND HARD TO GET OUT.
BUT WHAT DO I KNOW FOR SURE!
(LIKE MY SPONSOR SAY'S)
WELL I KNOW MY SOBRIETY DATE.
I KNOW I HAVE A SPONSOR.
I PRACTISE THE STEP'S DAILY TO THE BEST OF MY ABILITY.
GRATITUDE IS KEY TO A POSITIVE OUTLOOK.
TRUST THE PROGRAM/TRUST GOD OR H.P.
CLEAN HOUSE.
HELP OTHER'S.
AND WHAT ARE MY FEELING'S?
AND WHAT IS THE SOLUTION?
HONESTY, IS A BIG ONE FOR ME.
THAT'S THE ONE I'M TRYING TO HONE NOW.
IF I'M SIDEWAY'S IN MY THINKING HOW WILL OTHER'S KNOW
UNLESS I SHARE MY BRILLENT PLAN OR WHATEVER IT MAY BE.
FOR THE TIME BEING I'M JUST GONNA BE HONEST, AND IF I'M NOT
SURE IF I'M CAPABLE, I'LL EXPRESS A DEEP SECRET ABOUT MYSELF
IN ORDER TO TAP THAT SOURCE.
ANYWAY'S I'M ALMOST SURE I LEFT SOMETHING OUT BUT OH WELL
I'M ALLOWED TO MAKE MISTAKE'S TODAY, CAUSE OF THIS PROGRAM, YOU AND GOD.
I'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET RID OF MY "SELECTIVE HONESTY".
IT POP'S UP ALL THE TIME.
I WAS TOLD THERE IS 3 KIND'S OF HONESTY;
1. PEOPLE MASTERBATE. (HONESTY)
2. I MASTERBATE. (RIGORIOUS HONESTY)
3. I MASTERBATE THINKING OF YOU. (BRUTLE HONESTY)
I HOPE THIS ISN'T TOO CRUDE BUT IT'S A GREAT EXAMPLE.
THANK'S FOR LISTENING
AND THANK'S FOR 12 STEPPING ME
JACK B.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Riverside, Ca.
Posts: 388
Jack
"FOR THE TIME BEING I'M JUST GONNA BE HONEST, AND IF I'M NOT
SURE IF I'M CAPABLE, I'LL EXPRESS A DEEP SECRET ABOUT MYSELF
IN ORDER TO TAP THAT SOURCE"
Good plan, just be carefull what you share with who.
its good for me to get rid of those secrets, just gotta be carefull what I share in a meeting.
save face = lose ass.
"FOR THE TIME BEING I'M JUST GONNA BE HONEST, AND IF I'M NOT
SURE IF I'M CAPABLE, I'LL EXPRESS A DEEP SECRET ABOUT MYSELF
IN ORDER TO TAP THAT SOURCE"
Good plan, just be carefull what you share with who.
its good for me to get rid of those secrets, just gotta be carefull what I share in a meeting.
save face = lose ass.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: vanc., wa.
Posts: 16
HI J WALKER,
LET ME START OFF BY SAYING THAT I READ ALOT OF STUFF,
WRITTEN BY YOU AND YOU SOUND CENTERED.
I DON'T ALWAY'S BELIEVE WHAT I READ (THIS IS A ASSET.)
BUT SO FAR I TRUST YOUR MESSAGE'S AND I HAVE SOME
PEOPLE'S ON THIS BOARD THAT I CONSIDER CYBER SPONSOR'S
YOUR ONE OF THEM, THANK'S (TRUST IS ANOTHER ASSET.)
TO "THIN OWN SELF BE TRUE" IS NOT AS EASY TO UNDERSTAND
OR INTERNALIZE BUT I THINK YOU ARE HELPING ME GET THERE.
OH, BY THE WAY I NOTICED THAT YOU LIVE IN RIVERSIDE CA.
I,M FROM CA. AND I SPENT 6 YEAR'S IN LAKE ELSINORE
FROM 84' TO 90' SOME OF MY BEST FRIEND'S LIVE THERE,
YES RIVERSIDE IS MY OLD STOMPING GROUND'S.
I THOUGHT THAT WAS PRETTY COOL THAT WE HAVE THAT IN COMMON
OUTSIDE OF RECOVERY.
THANK'S FOR THE RESPONSE
AND FOR 12 STEPPING ME, SPONSOR!
SINCERELY,
JACK B.
LET ME START OFF BY SAYING THAT I READ ALOT OF STUFF,
WRITTEN BY YOU AND YOU SOUND CENTERED.
I DON'T ALWAY'S BELIEVE WHAT I READ (THIS IS A ASSET.)
BUT SO FAR I TRUST YOUR MESSAGE'S AND I HAVE SOME
PEOPLE'S ON THIS BOARD THAT I CONSIDER CYBER SPONSOR'S
YOUR ONE OF THEM, THANK'S (TRUST IS ANOTHER ASSET.)
TO "THIN OWN SELF BE TRUE" IS NOT AS EASY TO UNDERSTAND
OR INTERNALIZE BUT I THINK YOU ARE HELPING ME GET THERE.
OH, BY THE WAY I NOTICED THAT YOU LIVE IN RIVERSIDE CA.
I,M FROM CA. AND I SPENT 6 YEAR'S IN LAKE ELSINORE
FROM 84' TO 90' SOME OF MY BEST FRIEND'S LIVE THERE,
YES RIVERSIDE IS MY OLD STOMPING GROUND'S.
I THOUGHT THAT WAS PRETTY COOL THAT WE HAVE THAT IN COMMON
OUTSIDE OF RECOVERY.
THANK'S FOR THE RESPONSE
AND FOR 12 STEPPING ME, SPONSOR!
SINCERELY,
JACK B.
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 3
Jack, I could relate to you post. I am in Philadelphia & in the meetings where I go, there seem to be only two groups that stand out. Those who are into the Big Book & taking the steps & those who say 'Just don't drink & make a meeting'.
As a newcomer it can be confussing, my sponsor says "listen to the message, not the mess." And I have been sober over a year, & I have begun working with others....but every now & again
I have trouble with 'Just don't drink'. I understand, why people say that, but I just feel that if I could 'just not drink' I wouldn't need A.A. or a Higher Power. I mean, I couldn't stop on my own, so I still get confused about this when I hear it said in meetings.
Anyhow, I use what works for me & the rest might work for someone else. I really don't know, because inspite of my Time, I feel in my heart that I am still a newcomer.
As a newcomer it can be confussing, my sponsor says "listen to the message, not the mess." And I have been sober over a year, & I have begun working with others....but every now & again
I have trouble with 'Just don't drink'. I understand, why people say that, but I just feel that if I could 'just not drink' I wouldn't need A.A. or a Higher Power. I mean, I couldn't stop on my own, so I still get confused about this when I hear it said in meetings.
Anyhow, I use what works for me & the rest might work for someone else. I really don't know, because inspite of my Time, I feel in my heart that I am still a newcomer.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 610
Hi Jack,
I too found the whole thing very confusing for a long time. I was torn between the tough love approach, the more gentle one and everything in between. The truth for me is that all of them worked very well, but not all of them worked well FOR ME.
I just needed to keep my options open until I found what works best for me. I can tell its right because it feels right and I can honestly say to myself that I'm keeping myself honest as well.
At every meeting, I have come away with more knowledge about myself. There is something to be learned from every speaker I hear. Apart from picking things up that I hear, there are the less obvious lessons. If I feel I can't relate and find myself getting bored, my lesson is open-mindedness and tolerance. If I'm offended and squirm in my chair, my lesson is acceptance and so on.
It took me a while to realise that people are just sharing what worked for THEM. It didn't mean it would work for ME, nor should it.
I try hard to take what I need and leave the rest. I still find it very difficult at times, especially when my fears are triggered and I take too much on. But with practice and doing the steps, its getting much easier.
I share the really personal stuff with my sponsor and sober friends and try to stick to the format when speaking in meetings. If there's something I just HAVE to get off my chest, I will. But generally, I avoid doing a step 5 from the floor.
Amy
I too found the whole thing very confusing for a long time. I was torn between the tough love approach, the more gentle one and everything in between. The truth for me is that all of them worked very well, but not all of them worked well FOR ME.
I just needed to keep my options open until I found what works best for me. I can tell its right because it feels right and I can honestly say to myself that I'm keeping myself honest as well.
At every meeting, I have come away with more knowledge about myself. There is something to be learned from every speaker I hear. Apart from picking things up that I hear, there are the less obvious lessons. If I feel I can't relate and find myself getting bored, my lesson is open-mindedness and tolerance. If I'm offended and squirm in my chair, my lesson is acceptance and so on.
It took me a while to realise that people are just sharing what worked for THEM. It didn't mean it would work for ME, nor should it.
I try hard to take what I need and leave the rest. I still find it very difficult at times, especially when my fears are triggered and I take too much on. But with practice and doing the steps, its getting much easier.
I share the really personal stuff with my sponsor and sober friends and try to stick to the format when speaking in meetings. If there's something I just HAVE to get off my chest, I will. But generally, I avoid doing a step 5 from the floor.
Amy
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: vanc., wa.
Posts: 16
yes,
thank you for the reply's and yes, point well taken about the 5th
step download. i do agree with not dumping. like last night i felt
like i was being honest, shared that i'm working on the honesty thing, shared what i was like when i was drinking considering honesty and what i'm doing about feeling's; like i notice how much when thing's hurt my feeling's, i turn it into anger, so that
the root cause is blurred out of focus with the "john wanye syndrom". what i've picked up while growing up is anger is acceptable for men but tear's are for the weak, i know this is dishonest for myself, but find it tuff to follow through, out of habit and fear.
i'm want to say that i don't spill anything with detail to specific
event's but thing's like "i am really concerned what other's think of me".
i heard someone say pain mean's growth. i don't know,
it all might be simple but it's not easy.
i noticed in the beginning of this reply i really wanted to explain it
so you didn't think i was dumping, i realize again how much i want to look good in your eye's thank's for showing me how i can be and what i get to work on.
i can't control other's perception's but i can do the footwork on my
own.
thank's for 12 stepping me.
JACK B.
thank you for the reply's and yes, point well taken about the 5th
step download. i do agree with not dumping. like last night i felt
like i was being honest, shared that i'm working on the honesty thing, shared what i was like when i was drinking considering honesty and what i'm doing about feeling's; like i notice how much when thing's hurt my feeling's, i turn it into anger, so that
the root cause is blurred out of focus with the "john wanye syndrom". what i've picked up while growing up is anger is acceptable for men but tear's are for the weak, i know this is dishonest for myself, but find it tuff to follow through, out of habit and fear.
i'm want to say that i don't spill anything with detail to specific
event's but thing's like "i am really concerned what other's think of me".
i heard someone say pain mean's growth. i don't know,
it all might be simple but it's not easy.
i noticed in the beginning of this reply i really wanted to explain it
so you didn't think i was dumping, i realize again how much i want to look good in your eye's thank's for showing me how i can be and what i get to work on.
i can't control other's perception's but i can do the footwork on my
own.
thank's for 12 stepping me.
JACK B.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Hi Jack
I share quickly...3 minutes tops... and in a general way.
I will be honest...I never listen to everyone who speaks.
I do pay attention to how they look and act.
Let`s both keep sharing abd growing..
I will be honest...I never listen to everyone who speaks.
I do pay attention to how they look and act.
Let`s both keep sharing abd growing..
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: vanc., wa.
Posts: 16
HI CAROL D.,
THANK'S FOR THE COMMENT, I'M JUST NOT SURE WHAT YOU MEAN BY "LOOK"?
I DON'T THINK I'VE EVER MADE IT TO 5 MIN. NOR HAVE I EVER WANTED TO. 3 MIN. IS LONG FOR ME BUT I THINK I'VE BEEN THERE JUST NOT VERY OFTEN. BUT I THINK 3 MIN. IS A GOOD ENOUGH AMOUNT AS LONG AS I'M NOT SPEWING SPAM ALL OVER.
I DO WATCH FOR THAT IN MYSELF.
THANK'S FOR 12 STEPPIN ME.
JACK B.
THANK'S FOR THE COMMENT, I'M JUST NOT SURE WHAT YOU MEAN BY "LOOK"?
I DON'T THINK I'VE EVER MADE IT TO 5 MIN. NOR HAVE I EVER WANTED TO. 3 MIN. IS LONG FOR ME BUT I THINK I'VE BEEN THERE JUST NOT VERY OFTEN. BUT I THINK 3 MIN. IS A GOOD ENOUGH AMOUNT AS LONG AS I'M NOT SPEWING SPAM ALL OVER.
I DO WATCH FOR THAT IN MYSELF.
THANK'S FOR 12 STEPPIN ME.
JACK B.
Digitally Remastered
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Samsara
Posts: 102
Feeling long-winded today!
Thanks for the post Jack...
#1) I have grown to realize more & more where the "Shut up & listen" philosophy fits in with *my* particular recovery. [No one had to tell me to hush up cause my @$$ had been kicked so hard I had NO kind of experience, strength, or hope to share, BUT for the fact I had been initially willing to get to the rooms of AA.)
In my experience I was a very sick person. I had all the answers though...in my addiction. So if I truly did have all the answers, being as sick as I was, day one, surely the people there who had 5 years of recovery could benefit from my astounding knowledge? Yeah. I hadn't even opened my Big Book and I was going to share my experience, strength, and hope?
BUT...even a day old newcomer DOES have experience, strength, and hope and if someone doesn't think so consider the drunk guy who's NOT in the rooms. For me...if a newcomer [myself included] says NOTHING, how are people going to know anything about her/him? I get into how much a newcomer shares...
I want to not be so sick. SO I'd RATHER listen more to those who have come before me...I'd RATHER hush and listen. I'd also like to share a little from time to time, particularly if I am struggling...and I have done that before. There ARE people who have come in at about my same time and they were off to the races running their mouth week #2 and can't resist telling us how to work the program. This person has been blasted to shut up, get a sponsor and read the Big Book.
On the other hand, my sponsor has (and others have) been slowly trying to draw ME out so I will share more of my experience, strength and hope. I think, in the end, it all balances out. I do know, for me, if I heard nothing at all, from ANY day one to day ten newcomer, or month 3 or anyone with any less sobriety than me, I could easily forget where I was....how badly I felt when I was there trying to dry out....confused in my thinking, feeling raw emotiuon for the first time, and I don't want to forget.
But for a newcomer to suppose the answers...otherwise known as Two Stepping (read Living Sober)... may lead her/him back to another drink. It did me when I was first in. [I didn't share that I knew the answers but I secretly thought I did.]
#2) I do read from the Big Book in a meeting and I do appreciate it when others do as well, as it relates to the topic or their sharing. When I was first in I hated that too. (My thinking was, "Well duh! I can read!") But as I grew into sobriety more and more I would remember the people who would read which parts from the Big Book and would realize the answers I would be currently looking for were read in a meeting from the Big Book. I could then find it because someone had read it...I knew it was in there. Sure, at the time it was boring, but it's grown to mean a lot to me when people do that.
An added benefit is that when someone does that I know a little about their program: First, they know enough about the Big Book to reference it which tells me they use it. Second, if I need to find something in the Book to deal with something or learn something I could ask that person.
The newcomer I referenced in #1....has never been seen with a Big Book, but HAS been seen with female newcomers. So it tells me a little something about what kind of program they're working. [ie, Who would I want in my network of friends?]
#3) I shared one time....maybe it was one of first times I shared at this particular meeting. I was as nervous as I could be, but my sponsor had been riding me. When I was finished, some guy who has like a couple years went in direct opposition to what I said. I wasn't trying to teach anybody anything...it was all my experience. Feeling as humiliated as only a painfully shy person can feel, when people with more time than he shared their experience as similar to my experience too, I realized that there are some people who [particularly alcoholics...hehe] "scramble to the top of the pile or the bottom of the heap" ...and to be *different* even if just for the sake of it means they are A-Okay.
The second time I came back in I realized, bottom line, I could keep my *bull$h1t-o-meter" and so when certain people share, no matter which of these criteria they fall in, I either have a good feeling or a "Oh shut the hell up" feeling. [I have realized it's all based in whether I feel it's crap they're spewing or the real deal.]
If it's crap they're peddling I remember that I, too, can learn from a good bad example, and I start getting grateful in my head that I don't have to be a sick bull$h1t peddler or buyer today. I have also learned I don't have to tell everybody it's crap, because if someone is working the same kind of program I am working, and have tapped into that 4th dimension...they will know too. If they don't know it's bull$hit, well, maybe God intended they hear something from that person that will keep them sober today, even if the speaker doesn't believe a word coming from his own mouth.
#4) Honesty.Yes. I do not care how trite, how convoluted, how confusing, or how obsfucated or derelict sounding someone's share (or conversation with me one on one) is, as long as the heart is involved, mine and the other person's, a message has been well-received. I look at honesty as language of the heart. As long as someone has an honestly open heart to give or receive a message, then cash-register or brutal honesty are inconsequential....as it'll all fall in line later.
The Big Book tells us I have no right to bring my conspirator into my amends with someone (w/o their permission)....Or that I cannot take a 5th step with *my husband* if I've cheated on him time again, in order to clear my conscience. That would fall in line with your definiton of brutal honesty I suppose.
Today when I hear the word "honesty" I think of my heart. Facing the things that, for a period of time, I told myself, weren't true. Honesty is valubale and integral to my program if I am to get myself straight...no matter how ugly. [I discovered what honesty was when I came back into AA after a short stint out, before I learned what *Honesty* was the first short time in....and it was when I was finally able to face that I had much anger toward my mom. So it took me 60 some odd days from my first time in, 32 or so days of staying drunk, and not wanting to stop drinking the second time before I was able to face it and admit it.]
AND for the record, my mom and I couldn't be closer, our relationship has NEVER been this great, AND I haven't even had to discuss any of it with her- which may have hurt her. That's, to me, what honesty is - with myself FOR myself.
In sobriety,
Digits
#1) I have grown to realize more & more where the "Shut up & listen" philosophy fits in with *my* particular recovery. [No one had to tell me to hush up cause my @$$ had been kicked so hard I had NO kind of experience, strength, or hope to share, BUT for the fact I had been initially willing to get to the rooms of AA.)
In my experience I was a very sick person. I had all the answers though...in my addiction. So if I truly did have all the answers, being as sick as I was, day one, surely the people there who had 5 years of recovery could benefit from my astounding knowledge? Yeah. I hadn't even opened my Big Book and I was going to share my experience, strength, and hope?
BUT...even a day old newcomer DOES have experience, strength, and hope and if someone doesn't think so consider the drunk guy who's NOT in the rooms. For me...if a newcomer [myself included] says NOTHING, how are people going to know anything about her/him? I get into how much a newcomer shares...
I want to not be so sick. SO I'd RATHER listen more to those who have come before me...I'd RATHER hush and listen. I'd also like to share a little from time to time, particularly if I am struggling...and I have done that before. There ARE people who have come in at about my same time and they were off to the races running their mouth week #2 and can't resist telling us how to work the program. This person has been blasted to shut up, get a sponsor and read the Big Book.
On the other hand, my sponsor has (and others have) been slowly trying to draw ME out so I will share more of my experience, strength and hope. I think, in the end, it all balances out. I do know, for me, if I heard nothing at all, from ANY day one to day ten newcomer, or month 3 or anyone with any less sobriety than me, I could easily forget where I was....how badly I felt when I was there trying to dry out....confused in my thinking, feeling raw emotiuon for the first time, and I don't want to forget.
But for a newcomer to suppose the answers...otherwise known as Two Stepping (read Living Sober)... may lead her/him back to another drink. It did me when I was first in. [I didn't share that I knew the answers but I secretly thought I did.]
#2) I do read from the Big Book in a meeting and I do appreciate it when others do as well, as it relates to the topic or their sharing. When I was first in I hated that too. (My thinking was, "Well duh! I can read!") But as I grew into sobriety more and more I would remember the people who would read which parts from the Big Book and would realize the answers I would be currently looking for were read in a meeting from the Big Book. I could then find it because someone had read it...I knew it was in there. Sure, at the time it was boring, but it's grown to mean a lot to me when people do that.
An added benefit is that when someone does that I know a little about their program: First, they know enough about the Big Book to reference it which tells me they use it. Second, if I need to find something in the Book to deal with something or learn something I could ask that person.
The newcomer I referenced in #1....has never been seen with a Big Book, but HAS been seen with female newcomers. So it tells me a little something about what kind of program they're working. [ie, Who would I want in my network of friends?]
#3) I shared one time....maybe it was one of first times I shared at this particular meeting. I was as nervous as I could be, but my sponsor had been riding me. When I was finished, some guy who has like a couple years went in direct opposition to what I said. I wasn't trying to teach anybody anything...it was all my experience. Feeling as humiliated as only a painfully shy person can feel, when people with more time than he shared their experience as similar to my experience too, I realized that there are some people who [particularly alcoholics...hehe] "scramble to the top of the pile or the bottom of the heap" ...and to be *different* even if just for the sake of it means they are A-Okay.
The second time I came back in I realized, bottom line, I could keep my *bull$h1t-o-meter" and so when certain people share, no matter which of these criteria they fall in, I either have a good feeling or a "Oh shut the hell up" feeling. [I have realized it's all based in whether I feel it's crap they're spewing or the real deal.]
If it's crap they're peddling I remember that I, too, can learn from a good bad example, and I start getting grateful in my head that I don't have to be a sick bull$h1t peddler or buyer today. I have also learned I don't have to tell everybody it's crap, because if someone is working the same kind of program I am working, and have tapped into that 4th dimension...they will know too. If they don't know it's bull$hit, well, maybe God intended they hear something from that person that will keep them sober today, even if the speaker doesn't believe a word coming from his own mouth.
#4) Honesty.Yes. I do not care how trite, how convoluted, how confusing, or how obsfucated or derelict sounding someone's share (or conversation with me one on one) is, as long as the heart is involved, mine and the other person's, a message has been well-received. I look at honesty as language of the heart. As long as someone has an honestly open heart to give or receive a message, then cash-register or brutal honesty are inconsequential....as it'll all fall in line later.
The Big Book tells us I have no right to bring my conspirator into my amends with someone (w/o their permission)....Or that I cannot take a 5th step with *my husband* if I've cheated on him time again, in order to clear my conscience. That would fall in line with your definiton of brutal honesty I suppose.
Today when I hear the word "honesty" I think of my heart. Facing the things that, for a period of time, I told myself, weren't true. Honesty is valubale and integral to my program if I am to get myself straight...no matter how ugly. [I discovered what honesty was when I came back into AA after a short stint out, before I learned what *Honesty* was the first short time in....and it was when I was finally able to face that I had much anger toward my mom. So it took me 60 some odd days from my first time in, 32 or so days of staying drunk, and not wanting to stop drinking the second time before I was able to face it and admit it.]
AND for the record, my mom and I couldn't be closer, our relationship has NEVER been this great, AND I haven't even had to discuss any of it with her- which may have hurt her. That's, to me, what honesty is - with myself FOR myself.
In sobriety,
Digits
Paused
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: vanc., wa.
Posts: 16
HI DIGIT'S,
I REALIZE I ONLY KNOW A LITTLE, AND REALIZE I HAVE ALOT OF OPINION.
I'M THANKFUL I CAN COME HERE AND TALK ABOUT IT, THANK GOD I'M TEACHABLE.
IF YOUR LONG WINDED, THEN I AM MOST OF THE TIME, THANK'S FOR POINTING THAT OUT TO ME, (GREAT! ANOTHER THING TO WORK ON!) I'M SMILING RIGHT NOW.
I'VE BEEN WANTING TO GET THIS OUT, I WANT TO MAKE A DECISION ABOUT A HOME GROUP AND A SECOND SPONSOR,
I FIND MYSELF TO BE OVERLY PICKY AND OR SCARED!
THAN I "THINK EASY DOES IT", BEING HONEST WITH MYSELF IS HARD! BUT THAT'S OKAY, I DON'T WANT TO GET TO SPINNING.
WHILE WRITING TO YOU.
ANOTHER THING I WANT TO THROW OUT THERE IS, I USE TO TAKE MY BIG BOOK EVERYWHERE I WENT, THEN ONE NIGHT AT A SPEAKER MEETING I HEARD THIS SPEAKER TALK ABOUT HOW HE DISLIKED PEOPLE WHO BROUGHT THEIR B.B.(THE B.B. BOOK THUMPER'S) AND ME BEING SO SELF CENTERED I SAW HIM LOOK RIGHT AT ME, I'M LAUGHING RIGHT NOW BUT EVER SINCE THAN
I STOPPED BRINGING IT, I THINK I'LL START BRINGING IT UNTIL
I MAKE THE DECISION, FOR MYSELF IF IT'S SOMETHING I WANT TO STOP DOING. NO RECOVERY IS NOT SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED, SO I'VE HEARD, I'VE NEVER 13 STEPPED ANYONE BEFORE, I THOUGHT ABOUT IT,
BUT NEVER ACTED ON IT NOR DO I INTEND TO.
THANK'S FOR 12 STEPPING ME.
HONESTLY AS POSSIBLE,
JACK B.
I REALIZE I ONLY KNOW A LITTLE, AND REALIZE I HAVE ALOT OF OPINION.
I'M THANKFUL I CAN COME HERE AND TALK ABOUT IT, THANK GOD I'M TEACHABLE.
IF YOUR LONG WINDED, THEN I AM MOST OF THE TIME, THANK'S FOR POINTING THAT OUT TO ME, (GREAT! ANOTHER THING TO WORK ON!) I'M SMILING RIGHT NOW.
I'VE BEEN WANTING TO GET THIS OUT, I WANT TO MAKE A DECISION ABOUT A HOME GROUP AND A SECOND SPONSOR,
I FIND MYSELF TO BE OVERLY PICKY AND OR SCARED!
THAN I "THINK EASY DOES IT", BEING HONEST WITH MYSELF IS HARD! BUT THAT'S OKAY, I DON'T WANT TO GET TO SPINNING.
WHILE WRITING TO YOU.
ANOTHER THING I WANT TO THROW OUT THERE IS, I USE TO TAKE MY BIG BOOK EVERYWHERE I WENT, THEN ONE NIGHT AT A SPEAKER MEETING I HEARD THIS SPEAKER TALK ABOUT HOW HE DISLIKED PEOPLE WHO BROUGHT THEIR B.B.(THE B.B. BOOK THUMPER'S) AND ME BEING SO SELF CENTERED I SAW HIM LOOK RIGHT AT ME, I'M LAUGHING RIGHT NOW BUT EVER SINCE THAN
I STOPPED BRINGING IT, I THINK I'LL START BRINGING IT UNTIL
I MAKE THE DECISION, FOR MYSELF IF IT'S SOMETHING I WANT TO STOP DOING. NO RECOVERY IS NOT SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED, SO I'VE HEARD, I'VE NEVER 13 STEPPED ANYONE BEFORE, I THOUGHT ABOUT IT,
BUT NEVER ACTED ON IT NOR DO I INTEND TO.
THANK'S FOR 12 STEPPING ME.
HONESTLY AS POSSIBLE,
JACK B.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: san pedro,ca
Posts: 20
:banger:
Hi Jack,
Interesting post you made. This last time coming to AA, they all told me to ,"shut up and listen" This was the first time in AA that I finally listened to them. My way was screwy, mushy and unstable. I was about to be committed to a nut ward, going in and out of reality. I was willing to stop and listen, my life was on the line.
Until I reached this point I couldn't (or wouldn't) see anyone telling me nothing! I didn't share in AA meetings while I was writing my Inventory, it took almost 3 months. So I got a chance to listen to what was being said, without having to listen to my head, to figure out what I was going to say. It took alot of pressure of me to Look Good, Sound Good and all that.
After I finished my Inventory, my sponsor only wanted me to share on the solution, how I stayed sober on the steps, sponsor and meetings. Not to tell anyone to do anything, only what I had to do and get to do to stay sober.
It's not just about not drinking, it's my behavior and how I treat others. I am responsible to help anyone who asks, to give away what's been a gift to me, sobriety.
Yesterday I went thru another Inventory with a new sponsor, He saw stuff for me to look at and I became more aware of defects that I knew about already.
The main thing I can say is that I have tried to follow this AA way of life for over 14 months and its been working. I have learned to follow the one in front of me and encourage the ones that come after me. I get to help the new guys in my group, let them know there is a way out.
God has brought here so far, and He keeps me here, without God
I don't have a life.
"I hope something that I wrote, may help someone"
"it's my thinking! that's the problem..."
Hi Jack,
Interesting post you made. This last time coming to AA, they all told me to ,"shut up and listen" This was the first time in AA that I finally listened to them. My way was screwy, mushy and unstable. I was about to be committed to a nut ward, going in and out of reality. I was willing to stop and listen, my life was on the line.
Until I reached this point I couldn't (or wouldn't) see anyone telling me nothing! I didn't share in AA meetings while I was writing my Inventory, it took almost 3 months. So I got a chance to listen to what was being said, without having to listen to my head, to figure out what I was going to say. It took alot of pressure of me to Look Good, Sound Good and all that.
After I finished my Inventory, my sponsor only wanted me to share on the solution, how I stayed sober on the steps, sponsor and meetings. Not to tell anyone to do anything, only what I had to do and get to do to stay sober.
It's not just about not drinking, it's my behavior and how I treat others. I am responsible to help anyone who asks, to give away what's been a gift to me, sobriety.
Yesterday I went thru another Inventory with a new sponsor, He saw stuff for me to look at and I became more aware of defects that I knew about already.
The main thing I can say is that I have tried to follow this AA way of life for over 14 months and its been working. I have learned to follow the one in front of me and encourage the ones that come after me. I get to help the new guys in my group, let them know there is a way out.
God has brought here so far, and He keeps me here, without God
I don't have a life.
"I hope something that I wrote, may help someone"
"it's my thinking! that's the problem..." Paused
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Yorkshire UK
Posts: 103
I'm sorry, guys but I DO NOT hold with the 'Take your problem to your sponsor and share the SOLUTION in meetings' theory AT ALL. Whenever I have a problem, I share it first with my sponsor, who always says "Make sure you share this in your meeting-someone else might have the same problem and they need to hear it"
Also, my sponsor does NOT have all the aswers, and when I share a problem in a meeting, I usually get the answer from someone else who has had the same problem. I am very fortunate in that the area where I go to AA meetings has very honest and open sharing at meetings EVEN from newcomers, (in fact especially from newbies - my sponsees are always encouraged to hare in meetings) we believe newcomers are the LIFEBLOOD of the fellowship!!! Obviously, anyone who is steaming drunk, and repetitive in their sharing are usually asked to shut up if they go on to long, but no-one in our meetings would ever be told to shut up and listen, if they have something they want to leave in a meeting.
This way of sharing GOT me sober, and has KEPT me sober for over 13 years, and I am no longer too proud to 'Tell it like it is' if life jumps up and bites my arse!!
Pride comes before a fall, and for me, I would likely fall headlong into a bottle if I didn't 'Tell it like it is' this has worked for me for 13+ years, so if it ain't broke, I ain't gonna try to fix it.
Also, my sponsor does NOT have all the aswers, and when I share a problem in a meeting, I usually get the answer from someone else who has had the same problem. I am very fortunate in that the area where I go to AA meetings has very honest and open sharing at meetings EVEN from newcomers, (in fact especially from newbies - my sponsees are always encouraged to hare in meetings) we believe newcomers are the LIFEBLOOD of the fellowship!!! Obviously, anyone who is steaming drunk, and repetitive in their sharing are usually asked to shut up if they go on to long, but no-one in our meetings would ever be told to shut up and listen, if they have something they want to leave in a meeting.
This way of sharing GOT me sober, and has KEPT me sober for over 13 years, and I am no longer too proud to 'Tell it like it is' if life jumps up and bites my arse!!
Pride comes before a fall, and for me, I would likely fall headlong into a bottle if I didn't 'Tell it like it is' this has worked for me for 13+ years, so if it ain't broke, I ain't gonna try to fix it.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: san pedro,ca
Posts: 20
"it's my thinking! that's the problem.."
Hello AvieG:You have made an excellent point. I am staying sober on what has worked for me up to this point, steps, sponsors, meetings. And what worked for me is what worked for me.
I know from my past experience that I was the Problem. I needed the experience that I went thru to make it. There are many different ways people stay sober in AA, that's why there are so many types of meetings, when I don't like a meeting I either don't go or try to give something to help the meeting. Like take a committment or pick up chairs.
I am grateful to God that he brought me to AA, following the directions when I got to AA has kept me here. This is a program of action, helping others is key to staying sober.
Without the newcomers, AA for crumble, to see other recover and watch them help others that pretty cool stuff too!
But to end with this, We all get to have our own experience in AA, no one person is better than the other no matter what. I am just a average alcoholic who doesn't want to go back to drinking?
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