jimhere

"Turns out, around here -
the 'good old days'
wern't as great as they'd remembered.
The old 'my way or the highway'-
wound up running themselves off."

This isn't about the good old days. It is the present reality. And it isn't about my way or the highway either. It's about "Respect Your Elders." Find yourself a copy of one of Don Coyhis' talks. Don is a Native American man from Colorado Springs. He has been sober a long time and comes from a culture where the elders are respected and valued as a valuable resource. He brings that into Alcoholics Anonymous and talks about it from the podium. Many of the old-timers I've talked to are sick of the meetings where everything goes but AA, where "a drug is a drug is a drug," where sponsorship, the steps, God, The Traditions, and the old-timers themselves are viewed as passe'. When they speak up, they are called stodgy, rigid, nostalgic, old-fashioned, and worse. They are disrespected and sometimes shouted down. They are ignored. So they don't go to meetings. Hell, I'm not even an old-timer and I get the same stuff sometimes. Most of the meetings around here I won't get called on because they know what I'll say. So I know what Steve means when he says he feels like a Baptist in a mosque. It's a sad day when an alcoholic feels out of place in the one place he shouldn't feel out of place in.

"I learned early on that my sponsor is just as close to a drink as I am.."

If I'm just as close to a drink now as I was when I was new, where's the hope in that?

barb dwyer

Jim,

I'm sorry youi're not understanding my post.

I stated (I thought ite clearly)
that when the 'elders'
tried to isolate themselves away
in a group onloy they could be members of
it lost all its attraction.

The Eleers of this community
is aquite respectful
and looks to all the
oldtimers' for guidance
or to step into the solution
in meetings that cannot find their way there.

In fact, I can think of four offhand
who ARE Native Americans.

I'm sorry your area doesn't respect you
in the way you feel you deserve
but our community
is just fine thank you.

jimhere

It really isn't about the respect I get or don't get barb. I think you are the one that misses the point of this whole thread. I've written inventory about the whole "They don't recognize my true importance" thing, and believe me I'm about as important as a fly on a horse's ass. But at the same time, I know what I'm talking about. Why go where you are not wanted? If it was just me, it wouldn't be a big deal. But it isn't just me.

I understand what you say about the old-timers starting a meeting that only they could be members of. There is one like that in Seattle. I understand why they started it, but I've been to it and it is about as sick as the ones where its all newcomers and no old-timers. The healthy mix way is the best approach. What I'm saying is that you don't see that a lot here. You have the ones like I and a few others described and in turn the old-timers just get disgusted and don't go.

Boleo

Note that tradition 5 says:

"Each group has but one primary purpose—to carry its message to the
alcoholic who still suffers."

IMO the "alcoholic who still suffers" can be any length of time including decades.

That is why I try to carry the message that this is a end of suffering program for those who use promises as their benchmark instead of years.

Sober25

I've really enjoyed this thread. I'm 25 years sober and feeling pretty down on life right now - not suicidal, just a bad case of the blues. It's a long story that I won't get into here but perhaps could benefit from private conversations with some of you oldtimers if you care to. It looks like you have to have 25 posts before you can pm someone so I guess I'll have to wait on that. I've done without AA meetings for the past 13 years but have just recently gotten back into the fellowship. I have mixed feelings about it. Anyway, thanks for all the comments. Some of you may be hearing from me when I have the means to contact you.

Sugah

S25, I'm sorry you're hurting. Truly -- and I pray you find the fellowship you need.

At the same time, I see a symptom of the difficulties being discussed in this thread. You request private counsel with "old timers," when we all need to help and be helped, regardless of how long we've been on the path. By not sharing the ups and downs of life (and asking or sharing how the solution can be applied to them), "younger" members are given a false impression of recovered life, and by denying help from anyone not in a particular "sober age" range, a lot of folks miss out on an opportunity to practice the 12th step.

Here or in the meetings you've returned to, please let us help you. You'll be helping us, too, not to mention teaching us -- and learning yourself -- something about humility.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

todd6138

I don't necessarily LOVE the Clubhouse I go to, because of the gossip and 13th stepping.. However, the old timers are always chosen first to speak during the meetings, and then the newcomers are given the chance to talk once the floor is opened up . It doesn't work that way in the evening meetings, just the noon. I think it is good for the old timers as well as the newcomers because they show up often and are called upon to share their ESH. But we did have someone who has 18 yrs+ share this month about a horrible financial situation and his children being jailed, etc. and he wanted to drink.. Many people stepped up and helped him and we all prayed for him.. for today, he is still with us and a vital part of the clubhouse.

Sober25

Sugah, I certainly did not mean to imply that those who are not oldtimers have nothing to share. I just meant that it would probably take an oldtimer in the fellowship to understand the things that I would be sharing. I do appreciate you who messaged or emailed me. I'm sure I can truly benefit from your friendship, as well as all others on here. I'm starting to think I have really missed out on some wonderful friendships and blessings from staying away from the fellowship so long. I will need folks like you all to get me back on track. Thanks for being here for hard-headed dummies like me.

CAPTAINZING2000

I need to see a fresh face to remind me why, I still attend a meeting. There's about 10 to 12 of us in my home group with double digit sobriety. Ten to twelve out of around 20 to 25 people isn't too bad. I'll keep you posted in another year or so if, that changes.

queenof7

This has been a good thread to read. I only have 16 months sober because I was one of those revolving door alcoholics... been in and out faithfully for awhile now.

Hopefully this time it sticks.

I appreciate the oldtimer and newcomer alike and am gonna look for those tapes on Don Coyhis

Puddy

I've heard Clancy say that the old timers who are happy joyous and free are the ones who still vigorously work with alcoholics. He went on to say that the book has a precise instruction for those type of days described earlier in the thread - it is not sit in meditation, ardently pray, or even go to a meeting. It is to work with another alcoholic.

I'm not qualified at all to make an opinion for any old timer so I'll just quote Clancy, and just throw in that that is when I am most happiest as well.

I love spiritual retreats, conventions, conferences, potlucks, all kinds of meetings, but at my last spiritual retreat I wanted to drink and I was otherwise insane as well. When I got back I went down to the Salvation Army and read to a guy. It disappeared, all of it, and I felt connected to God and my fellow travelers again. For what it's worth, that is my favorite AA and my favorite activity - sitting across a table from another alcoholic. I hope I never forget that.

Sober25

I'm coming to terms with some things that really had me upset a few weeks ago. Getting back into meetings and posting here and other places online have helped me to sort out some things. I'm really grateful to you folks here on this forum. You have been a big help to me. I've been posting in the newcomers section where I can carry a message of hope to the newbies, and that makes me feel useful. Even though some uncomfortable days may be ahead in my life I know that I will get through it without losing my sanity. Sometimes us oldtimers just need to get our head out of our ass and do some constructive thinking - and acting. Sometimes we get away from the basics and try to fly when we should have our feet on the ground - at least that's what I need.

BadCompany

19 years sober here.

For 17 years I have lived in a smallish town with an AA clubhouse. After 2 years going there I found myself going many miles out of town for meetings. Not the best way to work a program. I got tired of the endless drama, people wasting my time bitching about their day, the card signers wasting my time shining me on for favors and rides, talking about positive affirmations, guided imagery, heck every platitude out there that has little or nothing to do with this program. I spent several years on the outskirts of this program.

I finally found a good meeting within 20 miles of home. Made the mistake of getting a new sponsor. Made the bigger mistake of bitching about the weak ass AA in my hometown. "Well" he says "you're strong, why don't you go fix it?" (insert "forehead slap" gif here)

I'm the dreaded big book thumper. Some of them hate me, others look forward to my share. I now sponsor three of them and one of them just commandeered the tuesday night meeting. I almost feel like a pirate boarding a sleepy french cargo ship when I walk through the doors of that hall I despised for so long.




Well said!

CarolD

BadCompany...
Welcome to SR

You will meet quite a few of your fellow
thumpers here on our
Alcoholism 12 Step Support Forum

Before you begin to quote from our BB
please read this link to our SR guidelines

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...copyrights.htm

Thanks for joining us...

McGowdog

Yeah, welcome to SR BadCo... and don't forget to ROCK STEADY!

You can borrow my standard disclaimer below there until you get one if you would like.

rockworm

I thought this may be a good time to stick my hand up and say hello. I have been sober for 24 yrs, so guess I may be approaching the old-timer status. I recently left a group that I had been a member of for 16 yrs. Little by little, the group has increased in members who felt the fellowship is the program and "group conscious" has drifted away from the primary purpose. I now belong to a Big Book study group where there a number of members with double digit sobriety.

The members of this group, myself included, are not afraid to talk about God, as each understand's Him, and that contented sobriety is a result of the spiritual awakening obtained through the 12 steps. In essence, the Primary Purpose of this group is to carry the message of the Big Book to the still suffering alcoholic. We are active in treatment centres and detox meetings and sponsorship is taken seriously. What is amazing about this group is the rate of growth over the past few years.

I still attend other meetings, but find that many of them now seem to be fellowship, not program, related. Most speakers talk about what it was like and never get into what happened or what it is like now. Most step studies revolve around the 12 and 12 and not the Big Book. Most members feel that 12 step work is setting up the meeting, chairing or other service related work.

The old-timers that took the steps are no longer looked to for help. Rather they are considered dinosaurs and "Thumpers" to be avoided. I believe the root of AA, the 12 steps, are no longer the root, and old-timers may feel that they have nothing to contribute, primarily because they know there is so much more.

There is so much more to say, but I feel that I would take this thread off track.



All Big Book quotes taken from Alcoholics Anonymous First Edition

CarolD

Glad to see you here with us rockworm...

Welcome to our recovery community

rockworm

Thank you. I have been lurking for a couple months before saying anything. Kind of like when I first got into AA.

CAPTAINZING2000

LOL I like that


It's up to us that've been around the tables for a few years to get the newcommer involved. I didn't actually volunteer for anything except to chair . I did take others that were new to the program like me to meetings. I growled cause, they got their lic. back and quit going but, I stayed sober through it all.

It's wrong for me to assume new commers should volunteer. I pass out a sheet for people to sign up to bring things for our AA parties. I'll call a couple guys and have them come into help me set up my church meeting.

Like the saying goes, we're either part of the solution or, we're part of the problem



Nice to have you on the site