Rob B

My ongoing issue with you Bugs, is that you take your experience and generalize it to apply to everyone. It's like me saying the 12 steps are the only way to recovery becasue they worked for me.
As was mentioned in a prior post, The 12 steps are AA's path to God, I know there are many.

I do regret the smarmy tone of my post, I should mind my own business unless specifically asked for considerations, I forget this sometimes. I did not pause and consider that you are worried sick about your son, I get that, I have loved ones that are hurting too. I should have stuck to my experience, I call ******** on myself for not showing more love and tolerance. I will hold you and your son in prayer.That's all for me on this thread as well, peace.

Ago

couldn't resist could you?

Good luck with your son, must be very hard for you to send him to AA, even though he isn't an alcoholic. I will also note that it was us you turned to for support when things got scary for you awhile back, and the 12 steppers here gave that support to you, along with, quite frankly an incredible outpouring of Love.

Maybe someday that will mean something to you and you will stop your derisive sniping.

Maybe not.

bugsworth

Rob, Thank you for your prayers and for always stepping up when you feel as you have been in error. I take my ownership in the provocation of a smarmy response from time to time. I too am a work in progress and I don't hold grudges when words are spoken out of passion...we are human and not so unalike.

Ago...nope couldn't resist...would you? LOL

Ago

actually I would and do.....frequently

I am here for support and to give support, not to snipe at others with derogatory comments if they have a different belief system then I do

navysteve

The difference is identification. I agree that there is no "real" difference, but the one of identification ( although it is only in perception) is key to a new person getting this thing called recovery. Yes an alcoholic can lead an addict through the 12 steps, this is nothing new, and to simply say that the failure of NA ( If indeed that is the correct thing to say) is not AA's problem is to totally miss the Will of God ( Maximum service). We cannot expect that new person in a meeting to filter through and find something to compare in to. We have to enter the dark cave with a lamp and show them the way, we do that through the common suffering ( One alcoholic helping another), when approached by someone who has other ism's it would be a sad testimony of the life I have been given if I were to simply hand them a schedule and send them on their way. And it would be just as wrong for me to disregard all others in that room who may still be partially blind to place the welfare of the one ahead of the many.

Bob23

Thanks for that. It describes the spiritual dilemma I'm experiencing perfectly.

bugsworth

Ago...please this just borders on being childish...I have read many of you post and they are not always free of sniping. With that being said I appreciate all that you have contributed to the conversation.
Steve...I agree that it is a sad testimony, the world is already full enough of separatism.

Ago

That border was crossed long ago

Why are you in the twelve step forum if your opinion about 12 steppers is they take NO personal responsibility for their recovery? That God has NO place in Recovery, and we have NO business "making promises on behalf of God" as you put it.

You have made your views on People who have/use a God of their own understanding in their recovery as weak and wrong, even saying me working the program as instructed is heresy, and that saying alcoholism as viewed by us is an obsession of the mind coupled with an allergy of the body, and thus we are powerless over it, makes us take NO responsibility for our own recovery, even when I spent hours upon hours trying to explain the concepts to you, not to "CONVERT" you but to set it up so we could have an amicable understanding, you chose to completely disregard everything I/we said in that entire thread, just making snide and derogatory off topic replies, why are you here?

I mean as far as people refusing to take personal responsibility for their actions I suggest that you look in the mirror Bugs.

You disagree with everyone here about everything, you feel alcoholism is a choice, you disagree with being powerless over alcohol, you send your son who isn't even an alcoholic to AA, thus don't respect our traditions, bash AA at every opportunity, disagree with allowing people to have a God of their own understanding, disagree with the fact we feel alcoholism is a spiritual malady, disagree with us thinking God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves, yet you come and post in the 12 step forum, making random derogatory statements at every opportunity, and then tell me this is bordering on childish?

Good observation, possibly the most accurate statement I think I have ever seen you make.

Why are you posting in the twelve step forum Bugs, if you disagree with everything we stand for and everybody here?

What is your purpose in being in the twelve step forum, you get bored of starting threads in which you attack AA and the people in it and just thought you'd drop by to say Hi, maybe stir the pot a bit, disagree with a few people here, start a few arguments, make a few smarmy remarks and get in a few potshots, and then leave?

I have NO idea why the mods allow you to continue to get away with your continued behavior, which at best is controversial.

McGowdog

bugsworth

Ago...if my posts disturb you do not read them. If you take a gander in the 12 step forum you will see that I rarely post here. In fact in the last 10 pages of 12 step discussion, of which each page holds 25 threads, I have only posted in 2 threads. That is 2 out of 250 threads...I am hardly a regular here in this forum. I posted because I had a question...don't like the question don't reply. It is not complicated.
Your dislike of me grows ever more evident as time goes on so I suggest you do what you need to do to rid yourself of this resentment.
Your assessment of my beliefs are off base and grossly inaccurate...it would seem that you are letting your emotions get the better of you. In fact I am not the only one aware of this as I have received a number of pm's and emails supporting my opinion on this subject matter.
Again I thank you for your time and input.

DaveBB164

Bugs,

To be honest I don't agree with a few things you say on here, what I do believe is your questioning is not to disprove anything anyone else says but to improve your own understanding of what others believe, I think thats a good thing, after all if you don't ask you don't get to know and if it evokes a positive debate, all the better, debate is good right?,

if I was offended by questioning of a perfectly harmless nature I would have to ask myself why and take a good look at myself,

I have not posted here for a while and to be honest my reasons were entirely selfish, I am a 12 step, Big Book orientated person as you probably know and I have received exactly the same reactions on the 12 step forum as you, a non 12 step person if I may be so bold as to say that, no offence intended,

I can't be bothered these days to get into long and convoluted, heated exchanges, its sad really there are some great people here and solid sobriety that would be beneficial to anyone, let alone a newcomer,

the handbags at five paces kind of stuff that goes on make it highly unattractive which is exactly the opposite of what I want my sobriety to be to the next suffering alcoholic that comes along,

I think the problem is "sensitive little feelings" get pinched and the fingers start going on the keyboard before, compassion and consideration or understanding of anyone else's beliefs pops into minds.

anyway thats my first and last on this thread, God Bless Bugs.

Dave

CarolD

Thanks to everyone who did share on the topic
Sponsoring a drug addict.

Obviously....that topic did run it's course at this time.

The discussions of each others personalities and motives
are best done in PM's.

This thread is closed.