CAPTAINZING2000

Do you think, it's all about being rigorously honest?

I look back at those that, have went back out, the one's that lost their lives to suicide or, the painful death from drinking.


Some of the people that, didn't make it was a shock. Other people that, went back out I didn't think, they were ready.

Can it just be, mental illness in many cases?


I'm always saddened by the loss of the people, I've gotten to know that, lost their life to this.


No alcoholic ever dies in vain. How painful a reminder a friend's death is

RufusACanal

Is not Alcoholism, mental, spiritual and physical illness at it's core Capt? Rigorous honesty is not the untainable goal that many drunks would make those around them think it is. Many Alcoholics die because they refuse to change their lives. It is sad, but today I live for those who want to live.

CAPTAINZING2000

Yes but, is it depression from the drink or, just a chemical imbalance that's causing the depression to make some think, that life's not worth living?


Life sure seemed to be painful at the last while drinking. it still can be an awful burden placed on us at times.

I was told early on to make a gratitude list of my blessings. I can come into an AA meeting thinking, I've had a bad day and listen to other members tell how bad their day was and I'm humbled by how small my problems really are !!

lizw

Amen to that.

The cry of the alcoholic is 'why can't the world change to suit me?'. I.e. people, places and things never do what I want.

And soberity requries the attitude that we change ourselves to fit into the world and be grateful for our lives as they are.

Any human being is capable of change because we are all capable of action.

CAPTAINZING2000

I wonder, was it upbringing that, might have played a part in it? Some abusive parents mking the person feel less then human? Is it of our own actions, due to guilt for the part we played in others lives due to our self centered ways etc.

Tommyh

Capt,we may never know all the reasons.There may be mental problems,or whatever.It is indeed a shock when it happens,but when it happens it helps me to try and help those we have instead of those we don`t have.I try harder to understand and to be more effective.A old timer said once,in AA we take good care of who we have.maybe that would stop a few of those tragedies.
Jim mentioned in the tradition 2 thread about how his group grew spiritually and the things they did.I can see where a group like that can be highly effective when I compare it to some groups I have seen before.

navysteve

Without applying the 12 steps to my life on an ongoing basis I will have no choice but to pick up the drink again. What I did yesterday for my recovery will not keep me growing today unless I continue on the path that is outlined in the Big Book

AW2486

Double Amen to that.

Willingness & Application .. can only be produced within ourselves, and so vital to recovery. So grateful I somehow had enough of both to get me started.

yeahgr8

I'm sure some people, as you say, have depression and anxiety where a new lifestyle and thought process would not be enough to maintain a healthy lifestyle. I think they should take medication, if required, and also should be working AA and/or counseling.

It's quite a thing to watch someone drink themselves to death, i was privvy to this when i was drinking first hand. It's quite a thing and i don't think anyone can understand this really if they are not an alcoholic.

gravity

I consider myself to be a very fortunate alcoholic. I had my share of challenges in life but no where near the hell that many people have and still go through. I am also very fortunate that I did not lose my family, freedom, or sanity to my drinking.

I have lost many family members & friends to alcoholism. The physical, sexual, and/or emotional abuse, the many traumas that they experienced broke many of them. I did not walk a mile in their shoes so I really don't know how much choice they had in seeking a solution. Take my own torment and multiply it by 1000 - would I have the strength to reach out for help?

At the same time, I have other family members and friends with the same torments who have found a solution – usually either AA or religion - and have some sort of peace.

I used to be shocked when someone in my life died an alcoholic death. But I'm 42 years old and, sadly, I expect that there is more to come. I'm not shocked anymore.

I guess the only things I can do is to pray for those who are suffering and try to be there for them (as an AA member and as a friend).

I have never felt true, 100% hopelessness, when the horror of active alcoholism is preferable to living with my demons - I never had to face that "reality". I pray I never do. If I did, it's quite possible that I would drink myself to death. But as long as there is hope...

Tazman53

I personally feel that there are people, both alcoholic and not who do not have the ability to be rigously honest, some of the biggest liars I have ever known in my life I never saw take a drink, the heck of it is most of them have been liars so long they can not tell fact from fiction!!!

geekorunique

Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselve. There are such unfortunantes. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty.

I really do believe that there are some people who just don't get the program. I don't think it's their fault they just don't know any better. They are honest with themselves and other people. You can't buy sobriety - if you could people would be queueing for miles to get it. There is no doubt that AA works but 95% of people who walk through the doors just can't grasp it. I've been in AA 8 months and lost people already through this illness. I do believe that some people have to die to be an example but that person doesn't have to be me. What it teaches me is that I should be more grateful for my sobriety and a day at a time I should show my gratitude.

Remember - if someone goes back out there - find them. Find them and carry the message to them. But...you can only carry the message not the alcoholic or the addict xxx

Source-Alcoholic Anonymous
1st Edition

CAPTAINZING2000

We still know so little about the human mind though. As far as treating depression.

My good friend mentioned to his Dr. he was suffering from depression when, he first got sober. The Dr. told him to wait it out for a while to see if, his depression left to make sure it wasn't after effects from drugs and drinking.

I would agree with this.

I first stopped drinking, it took over two years for my spirits to get elevated, part in fact due to the wreckage of my past.

I'm sure, it's hard for most people to read, I wrote 2 years. I hope that, they don't give up.

I left claw marks every where I was for a while.

It was all worth the wait though

I never want to lose sight of how much misery people are in trying to get sober!!!

navysteve

No offense, but we don't treat depression in AA. That is better left to people more qualified

CAPTAINZING2000

I do agree with that still, alcohol is a depressant. How much depression is, from the drink or due to a chemical imbalance?

Luckily, I never had physical side effects from drinking and substance abuse but, emotionally I was a mess.

After a period of time, some sort of determination has to come about if, your still miserable and have worked the steps.

We can't will away cancer or, any other physical disease nor, can we will away a chemical imbalance.

You walk around homeless people and you realize, many suffer from mental illness.

navysteve

That is why we see doctors. My girlfiend suffers from this. She seeks help from people who are qualified.

CAPTAINZING2000

Steve,

I gutted it out. I don't know how long you drank but, it was a real struggle. I didn't want to go to a Dr. unless, it was absolutely necessary.

How's your girl friend since, she went to the Dr. ?

navysteve

Getting sober is a struggle until we surrender. She is fine. She follows directions from people qualified to give it.

CAPTAINZING2000

Steve,

you could still surrender and be suffering from a mental illness.

I don't know your age but, I drank for 30 years. The last few were almost a daily blur.
My alcoholism had rapidly progressed the past few years of my drinking.

I'm happy at times to be able to keep a complete train of thought to complete a sentence.

With the drugs added along with the drinking, I'm just glad, I don't slobber

navysteve

Sir,
I am not arguing with you. Many in AA have to deal with outside issues such as depression and other mental disorders. Many can recover if they can get honest with themselves. No one ever promised me eternal bliss just because I got sober. Bill W. reportedly battled with depression his entire sobriety. As far as the length of time I drank, that has very little to do with it. To equate time drank with difficulty in recovering is a separation issue. I have many outside issues which are treatable because I live the AA program to the best of my ability. None of these issues are dealt with simply because I am in AA. You said it best when you said:

The steps are not a cure all. Every issue in my life is not because I am an alcoholic. True enough, alcoholism touched every aspect of my life ( the key word there is touched, I have the steps to keep that issue in check), but it was not the cause of all my woes, nor will the steps remove all difficulties from my life.