FightingIrish

I have begun to notice a discernible difference between the times when I am aware of God's presence in and around me and when I am not.

Examples of when I am not are when I am entering stressful times, perhaps just before an important meeting at work, getting up in front of a group to speak, about to have a conversation with someone I know will not go well.

I read somewhere that fear/anxiety is a measure of the distance between us and God. If I do not believe that He has my best interests at heart and will guide me in whichever direction I can be of maximum service, I am then struck with fear, my vision goes tunnel, and everything turns grey and fluorescent.

If I simply remember to utter the phrase, "God is here, too", in whatever situation is leading me toward fear or stress, these feelings quickly dissipate.

Yesterday I used this while driving across Midtown Manhattan toward the end of rush hour. You'd be amazed.

bugsworth

Irish...lol Everytime I cross the GW or take the tunnels God is driving....

Signal30

Thanks paul, but I have to be careful when I'm around newcomers in meetings. I don't "tiptoe" around the "God issue". Some members believe that you do. Attraction, not promotion of the program of AA is what keeps it alive.

"When we became alcoholics, crushed by a self-imposed crises we could not postpone or evade, we had to fearlessly face the proposition that either God is everything or else He is nothing. God either is or He isn't. What was our choice to be?" (First Edition, BB, We Agnostics.)

The way I perceive that chapter, and the way I see it, is that for me, it is not "Good Orderly Direction", but Gods Orderly Direction. God being that higher power. Good orderly direction is a action, God is my higher power, (a noun). I gain good orderly direction by following Gods will to the best of my ability.

That's how I see it.



Tom

ROFL

This thread is very helpful. I am working step two right now and I knew this would be a hard one for me. I'm reading and understanding what is being said here, and I'm beginning to have a better concept of my own Higher Power, my God. But how do I internalize it? Make it my own? Make 'Him' more REAL to me? What do I need to DO to make this happen?

CarolD

Interesting thread....Thanks Rob!

In AA I returned to my childhood Sunday School
God of forgivness and love.

This gives me deep serenity and joy


Blessings

Tommyh

just follow the steps and it will happen ROFL

I remember one day I was driving thru the country in winter.Everything looked dead outside.The sun was shining,but everything else looked dead.No leaves on the trees,and the weather was cold.
I felt so distant from God,and everything,and I said a simple prayer.I had some strange things happen before I got to my destination.I`m not going to get into those now,but the whole experience proven something to me.
It does not matter how I feel - God is still where God has allways been,right here,right now.
Regardless of how I may feel physically,mentally,or spiritually,God does not leave me.I know I cannot depend on how I feel to judge God`s love and nearness to me.Sometimes feelings can mislead me,but God is more Loving,Powerfull and Greater than my little human feelings.

Tazman53

ROFL:
I will second what ROFL said, the steps, I have found that prayer, meditation and practicing faith in my HP aka God has made him my own, not my own God persay, but God as I understand him. Prayer and meditation allow me to draw closer to him, to have more faith in him and a better grasp on what his will is for me.

paulmh

Many thanks Tom. It wasn't my intention to take your inventory with regards to "pride". I was only taking the opportunity presented by what you wrote to make mention of it.

I am grateful for your share of your experience. It is very beautiful, and it resonates greatly with me. I like the quote from the BB from the chapter "to the Agnostic". I think that quote captures the either / or nature of the alcoholic crisis.

I understand that you think I tiptoe around the G*d issue. I have a dear friend in AA. He's 40 years sober this year. He is AA through and through. He takes it literally. He is very angry with everyone else for not doing AA right. He does not have what I want, but I love him dearly because he has taught me so much about what AA is about. If I had to describe him I would say that he put down the drink and he picked up the book and he didn't miss a beat. What was true then of him is true now. AA has made him a better person in spite of his self-will. He talks a lot about G*d. And yes, when I think of him I think attraction rather than promotion. I suspect you were making a more cutting remark about me though.

I experienced the crisis you quote. I chose G*d. But that doesn't mean that because I chose G*d I know his essence or even his will. I believe it's dangerous for me to think that I do. But I pray every day, and I hand my will and my life over. I just don't know what to. If pressed I would say that no-one does - but maybe I've just not experienced it, so maybe I should pass over the "what to" in silence.

The purpose of worikng a programme of recovery is not - I believe - to understand the nature of existence. It's to move away from being a self-willed, self-important, self-righteous individual. My question is - do you think that claiming to know G*d, and to knowing that He expects all AAers to bring prospects to their notion of Him - is that to do with recovery? Or to do with self-will?

nolonger

Thanks Irish. That was fantastic. "Grey and flourescent" is how the world seems when I'm at my worst.

Reminded me of Heraclitus...

Heraclites ( or: Heraclitus ) – The Fragments

(a). Everything flows and nothing abides; everything gives way and nothing stays fixed.
(b) Homer was wrong in saying, "Would that strife might perish from amongst gods and men." For if that were to occur, then all things would cease to exist.
(c) Soul is the vaporization out of which everything else is composed; moreover it is the least corporeal of things and is in ceaseless flux, for the moving world can only be known by what is in motion.
(d) Human nature is not rational; there is intelligence only in what encompasses him.
(e) [When visitors unexpectedly found Heraclites warming himself by the cooking fire:] Here, too, are gods.

Zoobear

I think there is plenty of God to go around.:ghug2

sugErspun

Read "We Agnostic" slowly and carefully.

Personally- I had to 'set aside' any notion of what I thought God was and just be willing to believe that God could return me to sanity. That is all. Step two is coming to realize that this has worked in others and 'might' work for you - it's all leaps of faith. Faith without doubt isn't really faith at all.

What do you need to do? - After you take your third step, start the fourth right away and keep moving until you are making ammends. It's taking the action based on faith, getting some results, that builds this internal peace with God. He won't 'seem' real - you will know he's real.

I can only speak from my own experience. But I have met many people who feel exactly the same way (from their experience).

Signal30

Paul,

I took absolutely no offense to your comment. I am passionate when speaking about God, because God has truly did for me what I could not do for myself.


Tom

Sheryl85

I'm so proud of everyone posting here. Everyone has been civil to one another and seem to have taken great pains to share from the heart. Thank you...:ghug

gravity

I am having a similar experience to what SugErspun posted about. I entered AA with a very confused, half-baked idea of what my Higher Power was. I went right back to basics when I first started. What makes me stronger than I am on my own? At first, my children & the memory of my late father were my Higher Power. I pushed myself to do things that I couldn't have done without them (eg. my kids need a sober dad I will do it for them, I will make my late father proud of me). Being the 'I need proof' guy that I am/was, I really needed something tangible to relate to and this internalized it for me. As I worked through the first few steps, my faith & belief that the Creator is everywhere sort of evolved as the promises in the BB started to happen (amazing stuff really).

Just as an aside since this is kind of the subject, I've heard a couple of people say that in AA, anything can be your Higher Power - even a rock. This always sounded kind of flippant to me, almost disrespectful (of the AA program). However, in Ojibway culture, rock embodies the spirit of our Grandfathers - strength & wisdom. Sound's like a pretty good Higher Power to me!

trooper913

and maybe we didnt pay attention to god and got so scared we refused to submit?

Sheryl85

You are perhaps right...after all, were we not driven by a hundred forms of fear? Fear of submission is very real. Sometimes we feel that every time we submit we lose a little more of ourselves. It talks about that in the literature...fear of becoming the hole in the doughnut. It isn't until later that we really begin to understand that a personal declaration of dependence on God helps us become a truly independent being.

Just a little food for thought...

Ananda

I'm so glad this thread surfaced today. I somehow missed it the first time around.

I remember when I used to say my higher power who I call god cause it's easyer.

Some of the posts reminded me...its a word.

Hope to get back there as I work the steps in my new sobriety.

Thanks to all of you.

Katecan

Great thread! What helped me to grasp the concept of what/who God is was to first make a decision to let go of all my past preconceived notions others had fed me about him. I had to discover on my own. So, what I did was dust of my bible and read it. When I didn't understand things I read, I stopped, said a prayer for clarity, then continued. I read it front to back, underlined important verses that meant something special to me. In the end I realized what I had done was get to know God by doing this. He spoke to me through the bible. When I mentioned times when I did not understand things and prayed for clarity, well, I always eventually found my answers as I kept going.

I did this shortly after 911 by the way.

One mistake I did after that experience was to think I was done after I read it. Nope, read it again, pick any page this time, jump all over, it seems brand new everytime you do this. Moves me differently every time because my life keeps changing.

Thanks, Kathy

BP44

We have a tendency to complicate this matter. I know I did. Or at least I tried. See I wanted to take issue with deserving God's grace. It was plain to see that I had His grace. But what's a real alcoholic if he can't muddy the waters. I called one of my AA pals about this whern I was at the second step and this is what he said, " First, let's start of with the premise that you are insane, and I'm not going to crawl into your insane thinking right now" I couldn't argue there. Then he said, " my suggestion to you is to see if you can find an episode of The Simpson's, it'll make more sense than anything you're thinking right now" This is exactly what I needed. And this wasn't even coming from my sponsor. This type of encounter helped me to set aside anything I think I know about anything, particularly spiritual matters. It was suggested that I set aside any truth that I thought I might know. If it were the truth, it would still be true when we were done. The rest was useless anyway. This enabled me to come at this deal with an open mind. I did not come to believe in the second step. I came to hope. I came to believe in the process of the rest of the steps.

jimhere

"When we drew near to God, He disclosed himself to us."

Or as my grandpa sponsor used to say, "As you reveal yourself to you, God will be revealed to you."