Willybluedog

Thanks Jason, I appreciate your sharing and your support.

Big hugs,

Bill

tromboneliness

Maybe it's just me, but I don't understand why hearing "I Love You" is such a big deal, one way or the other. Anyone can say it, but what they mean can be anything. When my sister (World's Biggest Codependent™) told our parents she "loved" them, it meant, "I don't like how you're behaving, and if you gave up drinking, smoking, driving drunk, eating too much, not eating enough, driving fast cars, partying, blah-blah-blah, and otherwise did what I think you should do, that would be good, because I'd be able to stop worrying about you."

I'm sure my mother told me she loved me at some point, although I don't actually recall her saying those three words at any time. I guarantee my Dad never said them -- probably not even to my mother! As I've explained to you guys, my Dad and I bonded (or expressed love, if you prefer) by talking about cars. Or bowling. Or -- when I was younger -- sports. Or whatever. It was always indirect.

Fact is, I don't tend to say "I love you" to my wife very often, on my own initiative. I didn't even say it that often before we got married. She just knows I've got her back, and I know she's got mine....

T

Zoenob

Hi Michael, I hate that your parents seem to show favoritism. I was going to ask if your sibling was male or female but you answered that. My Grandfather was that way with my father. Poured the love and affection on my father's sister and clashed with my father. I don't know if it has to do with that generation from WW2 where men don't hug other men. Men are tough and taught to be strong, men are weak if they want female emotions and love shown from their fathers. Well this caused all sorts of lifelong struggles with my father wanting his father's approval. "Men are men, Toughen up, are you a sensitive pansy?". My family prided itself on not showing emotions in public, "that was in the lower classes", you never lost composure or showed affection, "that simply isn't done". I never saw my parents kiss, or argue, and only when I was grown did I finally see my mother cry.

My Grandfather loved my Father so much but couldn't show it because that was how men in my family were taught to act. He could show it to my Aunt because she was a woman. Maybe this ingrained thinking is why he can't show too much love to your children because he would have to expose this emotion and love in front of you. Hell, I don't. Don't listen to me.

Kialua

You have what you have. Your parents won't say I love you. The only time my Dad ever said he loved me was the next day after he beat me up and he was on his fist drink. Then it was I love you I'm so sorry and crying all over. But the end of the day was another beating.

Words mean NOTHING.
Action is truth.

Zoenob

This sounds horrible but maybe you just don't like each other and have nothing in common. I am the black sheep in my family and it would get under my skin when I would find out all the stuff my family did without me. It hurt my feelings until I realized that it wasn't that we all didn't love each other, it was just that we do not relate to each other and have zero in common. I love them all and they love me but we have zero to talk about, zero in common. They would be there in 2 seconds for me and me for them if we needed each other and when I realized this I didn't begrudge how close they all were because I had my own friends and life that I fit in quite well with. I also get along much better with them all now knowing they love me and it's okay not to be included in things I would hate to be a part of in the first place.

jolinda

Just wanted to add, My son [Jake] whos 20 still and always has kissed me, hugged me, and tells me he loves me. Even in front of his friends, and your right, because ive brought him up doing and saying itBut most of all , because he wants too.

Zoenob

So sorry Kialua

Zoenob

I do want to add how that all my family can show love and affection to each other now. My brother and I not so much until he is drunk but he showers his son with what he didn't get from our Dad. My Dad always showered me because I was his little girl but now he can show everyone including my brother. The cycle did get broken. I am so happy that all of you have been able to break it as well with your children. You all deserve a warm hug!
((((((Jolinda Sharon Willy Thumper Francis))))))))

Kialua

Thanks. This happened to me as a child and teen. This was many decades ago. I have long since forgiven my father but the reality of my life is still reality. My dad was an active alcoholic till he was 80. Bill's mom is still actively drinking. There is no way to communicate truthfully with someone still in the throes of alcoholism. There are no "reasons" why they don't do what we need besides the disease. They are incapable of being a loving parent or they would be one.

We don't go to the hardware store to get bread.
We don't go to our active alcoholic parent and enabler parent to get love.

They don't have it. They are all consumed with the disease and cannot be healthy for us.

EveningRose

I don't recall hearing my parents say they love me. My mother continues to send mushy birthday cards with lots of nice thoughts, but then spends the rest of the year telling people at church (my church as well as hers) that I imagine things. My dad posts on his public facebook page that he's proud of all his children, but then treats me as he does. So even if they said they loved me, I wouldn't believe it.

XH rarely said I love you, and never in the last years. And he was cheating on me and using his supposed difficulties with me to get sympathy from other women anyway, so again...I wouldn't have believed him.

I, myself, struggle to say I love you to my children. :-( I suppose because I didn't grow up with it. I'm making a greater effort to say so, and, sadly, I think it makes the older kids a little uncomfortable, although I'm glad they seem quite comfortable with getting genuine hugs when they head out again for college (the hugs from my parents always felt stiff and forced to me.)

Zoenob

I hear ya Kialua! We are all alcoholics in my family(except my Mother, she is poster child for Codependency) but we WERE also taught and raised NEVER to show emotion. My eldest brother died when I was 19, he was 24, when this happened it broke the cycle of not showing love. No one cried at funerals in my family, it just wasn't done, you would NEVER show your emotions. Good southern families would never display such inappropriate behavior. When my brother died it shook everyone to the core. My immediate family, My Grandparents, My Aunt, Uncle, and cousins, We all changed. We say and do it now but my family sure as Hell can't stop being alcoholics. We are just a bunch of drunks that can finally show and say how we feel even when we are sober. I just hate that it took the death of my brother to show us how to love. My Mother was so codependent and detached before my brother died she couldn't let anyone in(including us kids). Afterwards, she got help, stopped putting up walls, enabling my father and the floodgates of enlightenments began. She and every relative showered each other with love. We all learned to stop suppressing feelings and emotions. We haven't kicked the substance addictions but at least we have learned what the Hell was happening to us, that we were in a cycle of alcoholism and cold emotional abuse that can stop.

Now my XABF is another story. I sure as Hell can't get the love from him I need and my past is what led me here. The lack of feeling that love from my parents before my brother died when I was young led me into unhealthy relationships by seeking out what I didn't get, but dammit I sure can show and say it like a muther f***er. lol.

Chris1000101

Can the people in your life tell you they love you?

Many of them can; the ones I chose to call my adopted family and friends. I know my biological parents never did, nor did any of the foster homes until the last one I was in. To clarify, I was never adopted by any of the families within the foster system. Today, my friends and adopted family is within the rooms of the 12 step programs. I am fortunate to have lived in a few states over the last several years. I have friends and those I chose to call family all over the country.

There was a time when I longed for it and I can understand what many of you have shared. I have no idea what the answer is, I only know what has worked for me; I chose my friends and which ones I’ll adopt as family.

Willybluedog

Thank you everyone for your posts, as ususal there is so much insight in all of them.

This thread is much more popular than I ever thought it would be.

Tromboneliness, I wish I could tell you why it is so important to me, I am going to have to work on that issue with my therapist.

I think a big part of it is that they can say it so freely to my children, so it makes me wonder, do they love me or do they just use me as their unpaid butler?

If they really and truly don't love me, I would like to know, I think it's only fair that they be honest with me. I believe I just want to confirm once and for all what I think is the truth.

Kind of like when my ex-wife was cheating on me, I knew she was, I just wanted her to admit it!

dollydo

"If they really and truly don't love me, I would like to know, I think it's only fair that they be honest with me. I believe I just want to confirm once and for all what I think is the truth."

I chose for many years to believe that my parents loved me. It was my fantasy and to be real henest, I still don't want to hear them say "I don't love you"...after all I am entitled to a little fantasy in my life...or so, I think.

Sometimes knowing the real truth is more heartbreaking than living the lie.

Kialua

Yeah I don't think any good would come from hearing them say either way. They are what they show. Proceed with what you know. "what if's" and "I wish" don't build a life. We just don't usually get it our way, never have. We get what ever they can give, which isn't much.

Seren

My mother is an untreated ACoA, and I know that she loves me by the the way she treats me and the things she does for me. However, she never tells me except in writing in cards. Even then, it's "love, Mom" not "I love you!".

My father has told me a few times, and, like my Mom, I know he loves me merely by the way he treats me and the things he does for me.

I have a hard time tellling them I love them....I do love them, but for some reason, it's hard for me to say so. Perhaps because it's hard for them to say so as well. For all the other people in my life whom I love, I say "I love you" easily. I have no idea why any of this is true.

Interesting topic

dbh

My parents would tell me that they love me all the time but it often didn't feel sincere.

I would get the drunken "I love you honey!" calls from my father until I set a boundary and told him not to call me when he's been drinking.

My mother's mother was cold and abusive and I think my mom didn't hear "I love you" too often. I believe this lead my mother to say "I love you" all the time. At the end of every visit, every phone call, and before we went to bed each night. My mom is often extremely critical of me and I remember when I was a child she would tell me that even though she didn't like me at the moment she would always love me. I couldn't figure out how she could "love me" and yet blame me for so many things.

One theory that I have is that parents sometimes look at children as an extension of themselves. They sort of project how they feel about themselves onto their children.

I have actually caught myself feeling inadequate as a parent and then turn around to yell at my children because something they are doing/wearing something that confirms what a lousy mom I am. "Did you brush your hair!?!", "Don't you have a nicer shirt!?!", etc. This is hard to admit.

Guess we can all have our theories, but the truth is I'll never truly know what causes/caused my parent to behave the way that they do/did.

I'm working on understanding me.

I'm working on being the parent that I always wanted/needed.

I'm working on telling myself "I love you" and believing it.

Hugs,

db

Willybluedog

I know what it is, deep deep down, they treated me like crap for years, they told me I deserved it, it was so ingrained, my sister was always the princess, I got better grades, I was in trouble less often, but I was always the **** on their shoe!

I have got to get over wanting it to be what it will never be!

My therapist is working hard with me every week, it is a huge ball and chain for me.

If they would admit that they don't love me then I feel like I could walk away and never see them again without any guilt, but they want to keep me as their indentured servant, so they tease me and taunt me with smoke and mirrors that they portray as love and affection, they use praise like fish bait because they know that I will bite that hook over and over no matter how much pain it causes.

Thanks again for all the wisdom,

Bill

dbh

Have you ever posted something on the forum and feared that it was interpreted the wrong way? That's how I feel about my previous post.

What I was trying to say is that hearing the words "I love you" from a parent doesn't always make you feel good.

The drunken "I love you"(s) I heard in the past were meaningless. Also, hearing "I love you" after being yelled at or shamed didn't negate the effects of the bad stuff. Actions truly do speak louder than words.

I personally tell my own children that I love them all the time. Lots of hugs and kisses. I also try to admit when I'm wrong. I try to be respectful, fair, honest, consistent, and reliable (things I wish my own parents were). I hope that this shows my children that I truly do love them.

Also, I do (sadly) understand what it is like to continue to go to the hardware store for milk.

Thanks for letting me share again.

db

Kialua

Bill it would just be a whole new kind of hurt if they came right out and said it. I know. When my af was in treament he admitted proudly that he favored and loved my sister. Yes it can also fuel a deserved hatred and that is another big ole ball o wax that can snowball. I hope you can do away with the need to hear it for your own sake.

When my parents would tell me later that they loved me it was of no value at all. Meaningless.