Plath

This topic came up on a different thread I had posted, and I thought it would be a good idea to post a separate thread for it.

I've come to the realization that I do not believe, on any level, that I deserve to be loved, respected, cared for or accepted by anyone, let alone myself.

This feels a little crazy to me, just because I don't think I've ever realized the magnitude of how deeply rooted the self-hatred is for me.

In more self-destructive times in my life, it was almost like something tangible.

But I got my life together a bit, and the hatred seemed to have subsided a little. But evidently it's just moved a bit below the surface, so to speak, still just sitting there every day, telling me what a jerk, idiot, etc., I am.

I am realizing that I can't give my husband the unconditional love that he gives to me because I don't have even a grain of love for myself--none that I am aware of or can locate, anyway. I have nothing for myself, so I have basically nothing to give anyone else that is of any substance.

At least not when they treat me with any kindness or respect that is not somehow distorted.
I have taken care of schizophrenic adults and been able to demonstrate the unconditional, nurturing support for them that I can't seem to muster for myself or others (except for my son, but he is only nine months old...what's going to happen as he gets older if I can't love myself??). Maybe because they were wounded also, and depended on me entirely for their safety and care as long as I was on shift...?

It's like my mind slams down like an iron gate if I even so much as *try* to think that I might deserve love or respect, or to have dignity.

Now that I'm realizing it, I can work on it.

But I'm wondering about other people's experiences along these lines (I am going to assume that I'm not the only person who has felt this way...)?

I don't have a therapist right now. For whatever reason, I'm often a bit skeptical of them because the ones I've had have either been outright unpleasant for me to talk to, or they've just kind of sat there and listened, without offering any real valid solutions. I suppose I prefer to get my advice from people who have "been there and done that".

I may start looking for one soon, as our insurance just became active this month, but until then I post on here, journal, and talk to the people I am able to talk to about this type of thing.

It's such a crazy revelation for me, it feels almost liberating in a weird way. As if I want to go shouting "I don't love myself! I don't feel even the slightest bit of worth or dignity, and I haven't for as long as I can remember!"

I guess that's what happens when something that we've been hiding from ourselves out of fear becomes something we're willing to admit to ourselves. It's a big giant step into the unknown, but it's better than feeling like I'm totally restricted and cramped by my own strangle hold.

Kialua

I've noticed that when I am happy with myself and loving myself, when I go out I draw people to myself. It's like they can't help it. I get hello's and smiles from everyone I pass by. Most of the time I am not in that boat so when it happens it stand out. Most of the time I pretty much like to hide in a crowd, that's my comfort zone. But as I become more aware of myself being a deserving person and at peace with myself it radiates. It's just something I have been noticing this last year. I don't know how to explain it all or how to control it. I don't know if I am even explaining it right...

Plath

I can relate to that on a small level...

I agree, I am way more comfortable walking around in the crowded city streets, shopping, or doing whatever than I am with actually having to make eye contact with people or talk to them.

But I have noticed that, although I probably rarely (if ever) feel love for myself, when I am at least feeling "okay", or reasonably comfortable with my appearance, state of mind, etc., I am more inclined to have enjoyable conversations with people I don't know while I'm out and about, make eye contact a bit more freely, etc.

But I know what you mean, I have encountered people who radiate that sort of energy, and while I normally would feel drawn to them because of it, a lot of the time I've noticed that it only makes me shrink more into my shell because I feel like it makes my worthlessness stand out that much more.

It wasn't always quite that bad, but I think it's become a lot worse for me over the years, even though I thought it was getting better.

Hmm...well, nothing left for it but to do the work and pray about it.

I'm glad that you're coming out on the other side of that tunnel now, I suppose it just sort of happens when we recognize what's going on and become willing to love ourselves...(*kicking myself for sounding so cliche*)

Willybluedog

Plath, did you try the affirmation exercise I posted? I did it for the 7 times a day for 21 days as my therapist requested and it really helped, it really quieted those thoughts.

I used to be like you, I took every opportunity to try to kill myself in ways that could not be labeled suicide, I actually drove a pickup 140 mph on a wet road one night, I knew that one mistake and it would be done, I got into bar fights hoping i would be shot or stabbed or beat to death. I was too much of a coward to just shoot myself.

I stayed with an ex-wife who was brutal to me because I believed I was a piece of crap and I really deserved everything she was dishing out, everything she was doing was simply a continuation of the abuse my parents doled out.

I hope you can work through this your husband and son need and deserve you at 100% power.

I am going to repost that exercise, I really hope you will give it a chance.

If there is something I can do to help, please let me know, I want to see you make it through this and come out whole.

Big hugs,

Bill

Plath

Thanks, Bill. Yes, please repost it, or give me the link...

I haven't tried the exercises, and I'm not sure which thread they're posted in...

Lots of good thoughts going out to all of you who continue to share and be supportive on here.

hypochondriac

Plath, I know just how you feel. I have never, even as a child felt like I had any self worth. It is a natural state for me and when one therapist suggested getting me back to a 'normal' state it did confuse me somewhat. Sometimes it is overwhelming. Other times I use a bit of CBT and counter all my negative thoughts with positive ones. It only ever works if I write it down and sometimes when I read it again it makes me smile. It's a small thing but it does help sometimes x

bluebelle

Plath, I understand that self-hatred. It is something that I have to work on all the time. I don't know if you are interested, but I am reading the book The Courage to Heal. It is for victims of sexual abuse. It does not necessarily have to apply to that. There is a lot of stuff about being able to feel and that being o.k. There is also stuff about positive affirmations, etc. I'm only about 3/4 way through the book. It is a lot to take in at once. Plus, there are journal exercises to complete. I took a break from it for awhile, but brought it back out last night.

I'm also shy and have a pretty good wall around me to protect myself from other people. We've talked about this before, but I also work with people with mental illness. I'm very good at that, too. On one level, I know that I am worthy. I feel it sometimes--I get a glimpse of it. However, there is that other, hidden part of me who wakes up in the morning and thinks, "I hate myself." I've told my psychiatrist about that voice. Sometimes, I think it just helps to do the positive affirmations. I try to change my thoughts from, "I hate myself," to "I love myself," and "I am worth it."

I really think that we heard that as a kid growing up all the time. We either heard that we were not worth it, or we were taught that by the actions of the adults around us. It has somehow gotten ingrained in our heads. We are worth it (isn't everybody?). It's just a matter of changing that voice that we hear.

You have surrounded yourself with healing things, which makes me think that on some level you do believe you are worth it. If you are anything like me, you are probably harder on yourself than you would ever be on anybody else. I know there is an AA saying, "Progress, not perfection." I think that fits in this situation.

I read in the book Courage To Heal that one thing that is good is self-care. You can take a hot bath with good smelling things, have a massage, put on good smelling lotion, give yourself a facial--anything that practices taking care of yourself.

They also mentioned making a list of everything that makes you feel better. The list was specifically for panic, but you could use it for anytime you feel bad. My list included things like breathing, hot tea, hot bath, stroking the cats, etc. They suggested that you pick out a place in your house that is safe. It is somewhere where you know you can go to feel better.

I thought these were great ideas. I made up my list last night, and I hope to remember to go to it next time I start feeling bad. Take care.

Willybluedog

Ok, I don't know if it's me or if it's SR but I cannot get it to load.

I am going to put it in my Sober Recovery Album on Photobucket.

Just search Willybluedog.

If anyone wants me to email it to them just let me know.

Bill

Plath

Thanks, Hypochondriac and Bluebelle.
And thank you Bill, I will look for it on your page.


I'm familiar with the book "The Courage To Heal", but I've never bought it...might be worth checking out, it sounds like.

Yes, I hear that silent voice too, Bluebelle. I firmly believe it is the language taught to me by my mother and other extremely negative people throughout my life and childhood, as you said. It's always there.

And I do occasionally catch glimpses of my worth, but generally I shrug it off.

The really cool thing is that, surprisingly, now I feel comfortable with the fact that this is how I feel, and that yes, it's OKAY for me to feel like this!

I think that all of the energy I have been putting into trying to hide how I feel from myself and others has been maybe even more draining than the feelings of worthlessness.

It's so amazing to feel these feelings, as horrible as the initial realization was, and to be _comfortable_ with feeling this way instead of trying to cram it down so far that maybe I won't notice that this is how I'm feeling (I'm hoping that makes sense).

So for now, I have the luxury of feeling my feelings instead of trying to suppress them and pretend that they aren't there, which is a really big deal!

Thanks again to all of you for sharing, commenting, reading, and for just being here.

Plath

Wow, the more that I think about this, and the more things sink in, I think that the total refusal to respect myself or feel deserving of dignity has been really tied up in the fact that I have spent so much energy lying to myself about how I feel.

Now that I have been able to come to terms with those feelings and allow myself to feel them, it's almost as though some huge part of me has opened up to receive respect and love, because how could I have been able to allow those things in my life when deep down I knew I was lying to myself about it from the beginning?

I hope that makes sense...it makes sense to me, anyway. If we're lying to ourselves about how we really feel about ourselves, how can we ever hope to feel self-worth or respect?
It's really like I can respect myself more now, because I know that I'm being honest with myself. I wouldn't respect someone else if I knew they were lying to me, so why would I react any differently with my own feelings?

It's kind of mind boggling that, by acknowledging and accepting my inability to love and/or respect myself, I have opened the door to being able to do just that. That by trying to lie to myself about it, I was only perpetuating the feeling of disgust that I've held for myself.

I realize that I am rambling, and I hope it makes sense on some level. It just feels amazing to get it out there.

Plath

Wow, the more that I think about this, and the more things sink in, I think that the total refusal to respect myself or feel deserving of dignity has been really tied up in the fact that I have spent so much energy lying to myself about how I feel.

Now that I have been able to come to terms with those feelings and allow myself to feel them, it's almost as though some huge part of me has opened up to receive respect and love, because how could I have been able to allow those things in my life when deep down I knew I was lying to myself about it from the beginning?

I hope that makes sense...it makes sense to me, anyway. If we're lying to ourselves about how we really feel about ourselves, how can we ever hope to feel self-worth or respect?
It's really like I can respect myself more now, because I know that I'm being honest with myself. I wouldn't respect someone else if I knew they were lying to me, so why would I react any differently with my own feelings?

It's kind of mind boggling that, by acknowledging and accepting my inability to love and/or respect myself, I have opened the door to being able to do just that. That by trying to lie to myself about it, I was only perpetuating the feeling of disgust that I've held for myself.

I realize that I am rambling, and I hope it makes sense on some level. It just feels amazing to get it out there.

Keyn

For me, everyone around me told me how great, and smart, I was...how much potential I had. But i came to realize that I felt responsible for my mother's situation. She told me I was her everything, and she couldn't live without me. That showed just how my worth should go. The better I was, the better off she'd be. But because she was a junkie, prostitute, and occasional convict, I found that I was worthless.

I know now that my mother's choices were hers, but I still get suspicious and angry at 'positive self-talk' stuff. I would watch Stuart Smalley on SNL and I literally wanted to change the channel. I just have a really hard time with the positivity thing and this idea that somehow, I have a worth intrinsic to my existence without some proof. When I do have any evidence, I usually explain it away...

Willybluedog, I would like that affirmation thing to check out. I am all about seeking healthy change. Thank you.

Willybluedog

When my therapist gave me this affirmation exercise, I said "this is stuart smalley bs" she said yeah it may seem that way, but it works because you are training your brain to think positive through repetition, there is not really anything else to it.

The exercise is out on photobucket, you can get an account for free, or just private message me with your email and I can send you the excel spreadsheet version and the pdf.

Plath

What I'm finding today, after my newly found freedom from acknowledging my lacking ability to offer much self-care, love, or respect for myself, is that I am really feeling disgusted that I continue to seek approval, acknowledgement, and acceptance from people who are absolutely not going to give it to me.

My family is pretty much out of this equation for now, as I'm not feeling such a lack of validation from them anymore. Some days are more supportive than others with them, but I think it's probably on the mend for the most part.

However, I've been thoroughly disgusted by the fact that, no matter how much I know in my brain that my in-laws are never going to be supportive or caring towards me (especially the MIL), I am *constantly* seeking their approval anyway.

I try to tell myself that it's fine, I don't have as much acceptance to give myself right now, so I'm trying to find it from other people--especially people who will not give it to me, or are simply incapable of giving that to anyone, in reality. Clearly, it's a trigger for me.

But I'm finding this to be a real road block right now. I'm not looking for my family's approval or validation anymore, and I'm not really looking for my own...I'm just kind of waiting for it to fall into place.
But in the meantime, I'm still obsessing over how much anger and resentment I feel towards people who I feel *should* be caring and supportive in my life, but are not.

It makes it really difficult for the self-acceptance, love and respect to start flowing in me when I am still desperately seeking approval from people who really don't give a crap about me in any way. So it seems to me, anyway, at least on a genuine and sincere level.

So, the validation and approval seeking has shifted from my actual family of origin to my in-laws for the time being, as I try to allow myself the time and healing to give my own validation and approval.

I don't know how to stop the thoughts, although I could possibly stop the reactions. Then maybe the thoughts will follow, as I wouldn't feel so shameful and disgusted by my needy behavior with people who don't care...?

So, that's my newest road block (it's always something, isn't it?). I suppose that by catching myself when I react to these triggers with them, it will offer more respect for myself and more room for the love and dignity that I do in fact deserve...

Willybluedog

Plath,

It almost seems like an ACOA reaction where you have replaced your parents with your in-laws and you are a kid: I'll show you, I will be so good that you will have to love me!

Only most of the time it never happened no matter how good you were, no matter how hard you worked, how good your grades were, your brother or sister was always better.

And now it's how good a mother you are, how clean your house is, there is someone else who does a better job than you.

My mom lets my brother-in-law steal money from their house because my sister can do no wrong. Also, I never go visit my MIL, she does not like the fact that I discipline my children, she thinks there should be no rules for her grandchildren.

I wish I had some idea how to help pull you out of this hole, the fact that you "owned" the self-hatred seems to be a good step to me, you cannot fix it until you acknowledge it.

For a long time I did not believe the good things people said about me, what they said seemed foreign to me, they might as well be talking about someone I had never met.

I know one thing, I am glad you are here, I am glad you are sharing with us, I see that as a good sign that one day you will beat this thing, you will kill it, and you will bury it so deep that it can never rise again.

If there is anything I can do to help, please let me know, I want you to be 100% for your family, especially for your son.

Hugs,

Bill

Plath

Thanks, Bill.

I'm getting a little off track here, and this is a bit of a rant, but so it goes...


Yeah, you're definitely right about replacing my parents with my in-laws (like I said, especially my mother in-law, because she really treats me very much the way that my mom did, but on a much subtler level).

So yeah, it's like I'm reliving that experience now, and it's absolutely infuriating. She IS a "mother figure" in my life, and by all normal standards, there is really nothing stopping her from liking me save for her own personal issues.

We get along pretty well, really, except for the occasional, annoyingly undermining comments that she throws at me when I least expect it.
In all honesty, I question whether or not I might have started the passive-aggressive ball rolling, because I have been working on that exact type of behavior, so who knows...
But, at any rate, I'm working on the behavior and trying to avoid it, and I wish she would do the same. But, as the proverbial saying goes, people in hel! want ice water, too.

Her only friends (all two of them) are seriously screwed up, extremely codependent people, and she is basically their only friend; her friends have never met each other. That should be a red flag that I am not the issue, but I still continue to beat myself up over not being able to get her approval.

You're right, the first step in "owning" my self-loathing is a really big step, and I know it will get better from here.

Of course, when I talk to my husband about how I feel, he is really not interested, because he is really close to his mom. But of course, I have to tell him all about how she triggers my feelings from childhood, etc., and I can tell that it makes him resentful. He doesn't necessarily shrug it off, but he's not really interested in the subtle dynamics between his mother and I.

So anyway, it all still boils down to having my own love, respect, and dignity for myself and not allowing people like my MIL to trigger me and react to their behaviors.

I do feel as though I have the power to stop reacting to how she conducts herself, so maybe that will help with the self respect and self-love part of the equation. I've learned in other 12 step groups that the less things I do that create shame for me in my life, the less shameful I feel about my actions (makes sense, right?). It's just learning to control how we react that's the hard part!
So I guess this is just part of the package when we decide to tackle these issues...

My last therapist gave me a hand held recorder with head phones to record my own positive affirmations to listen to while doing the rapid eye movement practice he was working on with me.
I recorded some things the way that he suggested, with a negative thought followed by a positive affirmation, and it feels really helpful.
Things like "I don't respect myself as much as I wish I did, but I do deserve to love and respect myself", etc.

Anyway, thanks for hearing me vent, I am going a little bit off topic with this, but I just noticed today that the dynamics with the in-law situation really sets me back in my progress, and sets me up for that same feeling of disgust with myself, and only serves to confirm to me that I am undeserving of respect...So...the only thing to do is to figure out how to *NOT* react to her when I feel triggered, because it will give me a better sense of my own power and worth.

Thanks again Bill, and everyone. I'm so glad that you're all here.

tromboneliness

I don't have much to add, except that I feel the same way most of the time -- and have for... going on 49 years now. Why the h3ll was I born? What a f890ing waste. Affirmations? F890 'em. I'm OK, You're OK? F890 it. Happy, joyous, and free? What's up with that. Serenity/courage/wisdom? Give me a break. Stop and smell the roses? Really, screw that!

In reality, I am working on this stuff, like the rest of us. Did a 5th Step with my ACA sponsor a couple of months ago, and it was one of the best things I've ever done. I'll muddle through. But there are times -- e.g., at 5:00 in the morning when I can't sleep, having the brain spins after a bowling tournament where I bowled like junk and went nowhere, despite having a doubles partner who is the reigning Bowler of the Year on one of the tours -- how's that for a package of self-loathing waiting to happen?

Anyhow, it's not as bad as all that... But I still wish my parents had decided to stop after having one kid. (I have an older sister.)

T

micealc

Self Hate starts as an anger that doesn't get resolved. Then it becomes a resentment, and then a true hatred that can go on indefinitely...hatred caused me serious damage over time. Haters like me can't let go or get on with life.

I have been Infected with this Emotion sense Childhood....Deep down I hate myself,I dont want to admit it,or think that Im like this.
Looking at the reason for all my Pains/Anxieties/Phobias,this is where they Come from.
Its a hidden Hate of myself.......And I need to Find and Change this Hidden Beast.

It goes back to the way I was Treated by So Many People in my life.
Dad never praised me.....Why....Dont know.
Mam forced me to do what she wanted,not what i wanted..
It was a constant People Pleasing thing.
I Could not Concentrate at school,....Could not achieve Prefection.
Shyness,Red Hair,Physical appearence was critivised by Others....and on and on.
Followed by those that were jealous or found me someone easy to tease because of my Quite Nature....and Lack of coping Skills.

I walked in Fear.........Most of my life....Fear of Been Rejected,Teased,Bullied,Criticised,etc

Im not a bad person.........I just did not know how to be Happy,because no one ever showed me.

Joy,Gratitude,Happiness,Looking Forward to Something,were all Tainted...it wont last.


Right up until this Moment I'm afraid of been Rejected,Criticised,Abandoned,.....I got to Stop this.

I'm worthy of Love,Joy,Happiness,Contentment,....A Place in the Choir....I just need to Believe in myself and the Goodness within myself.
I need to treat myself as I treat others.....With Great Compassion.

The Only way to Get to Compassion in myself I am Told is through the Breath......The Breath is my Connection to my Inner Child...Who is Hurting and Needs a Loving Parent..........Me.

I have to forgive myself for all the Lies I have told myself for years....for not been the Perfect Son.
Its my time.........my time to live,no matter what age I am now....Age is not an Issue if I truely Believe this suffering was all for a Reason,and only God knows the Reason.

hope2be

micealc stated:
"Joy,Gratitude,Happiness,Looking Forward to Something,were all Tainted...it wont last."

That's a biggie for me. It goes along with self loathing of "I don't deserve good things to happen to me".

Positive affirmations is really a great exercise, as Williedog has said. I've tried it in the past and it did improve things for me. I've recently took it off the shelf, dusted it off and began using it again.

I am more aware of how many times a day I do this. I try to immediately block it and state in a soothing voice "let's be nice" or something similar. It's kind of what DesertEyes keeps saying about comforting a small child, because that's what I feel like when the voices tell me harsh things.

Sometimes I wish I could just go to a carwash, open up my head and wash out my brain. I'd even put a Clorox solution to make sure this fungus wouldn't grow back.....years and years of garbage put in there that now needs to come out.

Huggs,
Hope

Willybluedog

To everyone out here, to all my friends who are hurting, why is it easier to tell others we love them than it is to say it to ourselves, should it not be easy (if somewhat silly looking) to stand at the mirror and say "I love you". Is it simply because we don't love ourselves.

If we don't love ourselves then why don't we deprive ourselves of everything we need to survive and thrive? If we really don't love ourselves even one micron would we not do as some monks do and stare at the sun until blind, starve themselves, immolate themselves, deprive ourselves of sleep, etc.

We must love ourselves to some degree however subliminal that is.

I would like to say to all of you that I love you, and I love so many things about you, that you are my friends, that you are working hard to be well, that you take care of children and grandchildren, that you take the time to share your stories so others may learn from them, that you give comfort when it is requsted.

So big hugs to all of you, I know at times I can be prickly and a major hemorrhoid, but you keep coming back with love, support and good advice.

So if you cannot tell yourself "I love you" the you can at least say, well that prickly homorrhoid willybluedog loves me