Uncertain Me

How strange that something that is as basic to our human nature as love is so difficult to live with or know how to feel.

You all, though, have found a way to express this inexpressible feeling via a most remote and mechanical means - the internet.

I am grateful for your teaching and examples!

We will all become healthier with this(and Growing, you are right that it is our Higher Power that guides us all...)

UM

Growing

Hugs to you UM!

I agree with GiveLove.

Your process is beautiful.

I am cheering for you!

You are on a beautiful path to recovery.

I love this HP stuff.

Growing

Uncertain Me

Good Morning all -

Friday was a great day, then yesterday was one that from the first light slipped gradually but surely into tears and pain. Today I awake and currently feel strong; I'm hoping it will stay that way, but I know that I will be meeting with my husband to talk about financial things and some of where we are in our relationship.

Yesterday when I had finally slid into the bottom - when I got to the point where the pain was great - I called my husband to cancel today. He asked that we talk then, so we did. I know that part of the reason he is kind to me is because he feels guilty about what he's done, but part of the reason, he said last night, is because he still cares about me. Then he proceeded to tell me how he sees my actions - that I tell him the changes that I'm making just to draw him back into our relationship and that he wants us to divorce because he wants me to live my life on my terms. I tried to acknowledge that his insights were his to make - not to just tell him he's wrong although I don't consciously have the motivations he described - and to comment on how much I have recently seen him change his own abilities to draw boundaries. What I didn't say but might today - since we decided to try to meet today anyway and talk - is that my terms would include him if we could both be healthy in our relationship.

But, am I kidding myself? Is it even possible to have a healthy relationship after living so long in an unhealthy one? Many of you speak of new relationships with your alco-parents, but are those close relationships or more redrawn lines with escape hatches? (I'm not judging in any way, just trying to understand if the relationships become ones of trust or more ones of awareness of ways to keep the other's illness from controlling the relationship.) Were his responses to me already not him drawing lines but swallowing emotions (I know, I have to ask him!)? Were my responses - and if he's right about how he sees me - not healthier? I keep thinking that somehow I'll just know that we are in a better place, that we will be confident that we won't absolutely fall back into old habits, that we have brought ourselves to somewhere healthier ... but for the life of me I just don't know and only can second guess that what I'm doing now is better than what I did before.

I think I know my answers. I just thought I'd try posting this morning as a way to clarify my uncertainties before I meet with my husband. How much, sometimes, I wish he would be mean and out of control; I keep thinking I could let it all go in anger so much easier than letting go in love.

Whew... I wish sometimes I could avoid awareness...

UM

Uncertain Me

Quick follow-up:

I have taken a shower, feel better. I'm going to meditate for a while, pray for a while, then reread all of your supportive posts and pms. I think I can handle this day. I will try to just listen to what and how my husband speaks, try to not control or compete, and remember to do what is good for me.

I just need to keep in mind that the future is not written yet, I cannot control it, and all that is really known is now. If I stay present and out of my head maybe I can get through this day with my emotional self in-tact.

Cheers, all -
UM

Uncertain Me

Ok, so maybe I need to either pray or meditate - or both - more next time.

Today just put the final crunch in this weekend's emotional train-wreck. So much pain, so much sadness. I know I have to let him go, and I'm doing better being transparently honest, although I'm not sure he believes or trusts me. Still, I have a hard time understanding his thinking - why it would be easier to begin again with someone new than try to re-design our marriage. He is so certain that because our personal healing has come through individual counselling and that our past years were so challenged, that we can never come together and build something positive. For me, these things are evidence that we can ... but that doesn't count at this moment. Like the questions of understanding love and trust, I see now how completely different we have been about this matter of change as well.

Just wanted to give the final note to this weekend's drama.

I'm off to bed in hopes that tomorrow is calmer and less upheaved.

UM

Growing

Um,

I am thinking of you today..so sorry that you are going through this.

But, it is good that you are posting..

Hang in there,

((((hugs))))

Growing

Uncertain Me

Growing -

Thanks for the thoughts; I think they helped. I am, at least, emotionally in a better place. I think it is the not knowing that gets to me, even as much as I try to sound strong and defiant (see comments about staying in the moment!). I know that if I can remain patient, if I can keep working on letting go, I will be fine - and maybe we will be fine. It just hurts sometimes...

I think and send prayers for all of you as well. You are a wonderful community.

UM

Uncertain Me

Hey all --

I'm not sure if my question is best posted here or elsewhere, but you here have been my support system, so I'm starting here.

This weekend, my husband and I had one of those painful talks with too much honesty and assertions by him that we can't find any means of getting together. That isn't the issue, quite. In the midst of the talk, though, he made some comments about how he couldn't even imagine being intimate with me again, and that the thought of our past sex life was too upsetting to him. (We didn't have a horrible sex life, I thought, but I didn't relinquish control easily; I was date raped at 16 and never really addressed all of that baggage until late in our marriage - and not even fully until the work I've begun this past year.)

The next day - Monday - I e-mailed him a note letting him know that my response to his rejection of me sexually was tied up with the fact that I was coming from a damaged position - the rape was my first and only sexual experience before I met my husband. He replied with a caring note saying that my letter absolutely unsettled him and that he needed to think through his reply. Later, we were talking - get the sense we talk alot?!? - and he mentioned that he felt it was only fair to explain why I couldn't own all of the problems with our intimate times - but, he said, he still wasn't ready to tell me what he meant by that. Now he tells me he can't explain what he means until after he sees his counselor on Friday.

Ok, so here's my codie help request: Why am I wigging out at this? What about not knowing sets my antennae on edge? How do I find the patience to wait until he tells me when all the time I'm second guessing what this might all mean?

I know that there was sexual abuse in my alcoholic father-in-law's past, but my husband has claimed no personal sexual abuse to his knowledge. That doesn't keep my mind from reeling, with possible scenarios ranging from this confession being about my husband realizing suppressed memories to my husband having secret sexual affairs to nothing more than my husband not able to see me without seeing the rape. I'm a little crazed, and I can't quite decide why. I keep telling myself that no matter what my husband says, I do not own it; I am whole inside apart from his revelation and I don't have to pick this up for him ... nor can I. Still, it doesn't matter how much I tell myself (I was up at 4 this morning trying to meditate my mind back to quietness), I am not handling this well.

So, in all of your collective wisdom, do you have any guidance for me? I feel like I only come with issues, but I feel like if I can find a way to deal with this, I am making a new stride in my own healing.

..... Uncertain! ....

Cynay

Wow... I’m confused somewhat but I’m also the queen of over thinking and the "what if's" So maybe I can help on that end.
I tend to spend a great deal of time (much better today) going over every possible outcome of whatever the issue is. I also tend to question every thing I did in a relationship, what I did wrong, what I could have done different etc...
Today I’m learning that it all comes down to step one.

I am powerless over people, places and things and my life has become unmanageable.

When I’m in the throws of the what ifs, what did I do wrong, why not's etc... that is unmanageable and does nothing for my recovery. When I get to that point is when I keep repeating steps one, two and three over and over…. I have to trust and have faith that God has the best plan for me and is preparing me for that plan… Now I did not say I had to like it, but I do have to accept it.
Believe me when I say I’m trying to tell you what I see in the very nicest of ways... and I do know 28 years is a long time and alot to lose but.... (and mind you I am trying also to practice what I preach)

My thought is this.... You are way too focused on his issues and not nearly focused enough on yours. It sounds to me like there is alot in your history that needs attention. I had to stop putting my hand on the hot stove and burning myself... That is exactly what was happening to me, I have the choice to continue hurting myself or I can turn inward and love and respect myself and heal. Listening to his negative thoughts, getting tied up in his demons, Letting him take your inventory is not helping the pain right now. There might come a day when you could talk with him and ask his opinion so you can reflect more clearly... but today is just not that day... you are not healed enough.
My thought is to try and stop caring what he thinks... Believe him when he says he is not willing or able to have a relationship with you... trust me it will save alot of grief if you listen and believe him.... His opinion about you is not your business right now, your business is to work on yourself and allow him to work on his issues. Sometimes it is for the benefit of both partners to just stop the insanity of doing the same things over and over. If you are ment to be together maybe you need to be separate now to work on your individual problems so that you can come back together a much more whole person and a much healthier relationship.
I have seen relationships that had to separate ... each person had to learn a lesson separate because they could not learn that lesson while still attached. I have also seen relationships that should have ended and the people became much healthier and happy without that partner... either way, only great things will come from you taking this time as an opportunity to work on yourself, love yourself and grow individually.

Remember to take what you want and leave the rest.... these are just my thoughts.

Uncertain Me

Cynay --

Yes. I am working through much of this -- with some issues for the umpteenth time! -- with a good counselor right now. I think I am actually untying many knots that I haven't successfully untied before. That said, I know there's a ton more to do. Being a good codie, though, means focusing on his issues is much more attractive than addressing my own, right? :codiepolice

The first one's really hard, the second one I try. The fact that we have our sons and he isn't even remotely interested in leaving them - he can't go a day without seeing them or talking to them - means that we don't have the space that I think I need to really succeed at giving up this relationship. He's been way too much the center of my attention for too long; I'm not good at the letting go stuff...

This I agree with too. As much as I wish we had been able to do anything before he left, I know we wouldn't have gotten where we are now without his pulling the plug.

Thank you for your thoughts. I need the reminders and the perspective. You are one of many to say some of what you said, so I know you are speaking truth. Trust me when I say this year has had a crazy learning curve for me; I wish I was able to heal more quickly... still I'm a whole lot better now than I was even in January when he walked out. All that said, I think you can see why I'm recognizing how much work I have to do. I do try to hug myself, and even today I talked myself down a bit - even after today's earlier post - by reminding myself that I'm lovable. Hard one for me to feel, though. I married him in part because I was sure no one would love me otherwise. ... :puppet

You, and Ginger and GiveLove and DesertEyes and others, though, have been so immensely supportive. I am grateful! You give me hope that maybe some day I will succeed!

UM

Cynay

You are already succeeding hon… you’re here, your reaching out and you are identifying the issues that need work.

“Every situation perceived properly is an opportunity to heal”

“If I could spare you the pain you’re experiencing, I wouldn’t –because I wouldn’t want to deprive you of the strength and wisdom you will gain from having gone through it and come out on the other side”

Love and Karma

Watch your thoughts, they become words,
Watch your words, they become actions,
Watch your actions they become habits,
Watch your habits, they become character,
Watch your character, they become your destiny.

I wanted to share this quote with you because it rings VERY true in my life. If I could go back and change my life and make everything right…. I would have lost the most amazing part of myself….

My ability to Love …. To Feel deeply and to give it all away to other people that have felt like I have at different times. I will share a very personal experience with you .

There was a lady I met when I was 12 years old. This women had been raped and beaten within an inch of her life when she was a child. The scars that she carried had haunted her for many years because she was so ashamed that she did not tell anyone. Years later in therapy she dealt with her Demons and had to relive the very same pain that she had tried to run from….. Not an easy task at all.

I would not wish this experience on anyone….

But I was very very grateful that she was there holding my hand when I was a 12 year old, shame filled, broken, scared rape victim….

There is always a reason hon…. Sometimes we just have to wait to see what it is.

Uncertain Me

Thank you, Cynay for all you have shared.

You are my light today!

UM

Uncertain Me

Cynay -- These words are truer today than the other day when you wrote them. Yesterday, he decided to confide in me - and it was big. It turned out to be a confession of suppressed abuse - a realization that clicked as true and filling in gaps in my mind. I even talked to my IC about it, and went to him yesterday to say how I was letting go of his injured inner child. Today, though, he tells me he had completely made up the abuse memories just to give me something to focus on instead of our flawed sex life! And you know what my response was? It was to say "well, that's not so bad. I can handle that..." Oh, yeah! I was once more excusing his bad behavior - not holding him to the consequences that should come with that kind of manipulation - because I could name it - and because I am able to handle such transgressions. Is that a little unhealthy or what?

I think you are right that I need to keep working on separating myself from him. For both of our sakes, I need to focus on me and healing me; I don't know if either of us can be together anymore if he feels compelled to protect himself with such a lie and I feel compelled to excuse it.

I hate the pain, but I also would not want to return to the games we played that brought us to where I couldn't stand up for myself and he couldn't exist without feeling controlled by me.

What a week! Thought you'd like to know the latest though...

Thanks again, Cynay, for the strong insights.

UM

Growing

UM,

In my humble opinion, from the outside looking in:

You do not need anyone abusing you like this right now.

(((hugs)))

Growing

Uncertain Me

Growing --

Thanks for the hugs and support. You know, he felt more ashamed with his confession of his abuse - which he even named as such - than I did. You are right; I don't need this until I am healthier. If the abuser can name his abuse more readily than I can, I am too susceptible to hurt to really pursue anything more.

I'm not pushing for the divorce harder, but I know there's no reason nor sense in pushing for reconciliation. I think I need to just pull away as much as possible (as one can with two sons who need and see their dad often) and work on me! I need to get to the point where I can draw that boundary of not allowing such manipulations before I can consider re-entering into any close relationship - with him or with anyone else.

I know that part of my growth so far, though, comes from all of you; I have had people tell me for months now that I protect him too much, but it wasn't until I started posting here and reading your posts that I started to really see what damage I did to myself.

Thanks, all -
UM

Growing

Sounds great UM!

You're doing it!

I learned this week that first, we change our thoughts and then our thoughts become useful *actions*.

Good luck with those boundaries!

Growing

Growing

"Watch your thoughts, they become words,
Watch your words, they become actions,
Watch your actions they become habits,
Watch your habits, they become character,
Watch your character, they become your destiny."

I forgot to type, in the above post, that this came from Cynay...Thank You!

Uncertain Me

Growing -

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I have been bouncing between feeling quite resolute about drawing boundaries and saying good bye - at least emotionally - and absolutely breaking down and crying for losing this connection. I'm moving between listening to sad Phil Collins' love songs and smartly ironic Barenaked Ladies' holiday songs. I think my happy medium will be somewhere in the middle...

Our wedding anniversary is December 29th. I've decided to have a Nearly New Year's Eve Eve party on that day - find something to celebrate and focus on besides what's not.

Hope you are having a great Monday...
UM

Uncertain Me

As the world turns...

I am finding myself on the brink of new territory ... and not sure how to face it. As I let myself feel and think about what happened last week, I could feel whole blocks and walls begin to tumble. I don't know yet if these are walls protecting things inside me or pedestals I placed my husband on, if these are blocks that held up important strength or barriers that kept me from letting in the feelings ... whatever they are/were they are tumbling and I'm standing here afraid to look in.

My therapist told me yesterday she thinks I'm on the verge of a major existential moment - ie: the realization that in the honest scheme of things, I am alone. I don't think I want to go there, but I get the feeling that I will have no control over that. The ultimate exercise in letting go, I guess - letting go of a hold on anything other than me.

My challenge will be trying to keep the break waters at bay until after next Tuesday; this Christmas is hard enough on my sons - they don't need a basket case for a mom. I guess, though, if it comes it comes. Healing isn't always done on our time schedule, and realizations don't take numbers to wait until called.

Just thought I'd pass along the view from here. Keep me in your thoughts if you can; I know I can make it through but I'm a bit afraid of what that means.

In the meantime -- may you find strength in the promises of this Christmas season to face whatever challenges you find. I will hold you in my prayers as well...

Onwards ...
UM

Growing

Its too hard...just be honest and do the best you can for your kids. Share this process with them. This is a precious education for your children.

I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers...

I wonder if the crumbling towers are your old ways of protecting yourself, that you find, no longer work? I am sure it is alot of things. Hubby on pedestal ect. like you said.

Oh, you will never be alone. You have us and your HP. Maybe, we can get out there and make new aquaintances/possible friends?

In time, I hope you can get to a grief support group or something like it (maybe you have). Just my thoughts.

There are so many good men and women who have lost their beloved relationships on this board. Keep posting and asking questions.

Hang in there!

((((((UM)))))))

Growing