Off topic thread
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: CA
Posts: 10,681
It will take me some time to go through the posts.
The one thing that stands out is that there seems to be some confusion of who the secular forum is for. The Secular forum is for every member here who wants to discuss a secular topic. The 12 step program is off topic on this forum. That rule exists because it's impossible to avoid bashing and debates when the topic is allowed.
This thread is here to try to solve a problem and there will be some leniency on the topic.
The one thing that stands out is that there seems to be some confusion of who the secular forum is for. The Secular forum is for every member here who wants to discuss a secular topic. The 12 step program is off topic on this forum. That rule exists because it's impossible to avoid bashing and debates when the topic is allowed.
This thread is here to try to solve a problem and there will be some leniency on the topic.
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: CA
Posts: 10,681
Im assuming we can still share about CRAFT and SMART on the main family forums.. We don't discuss recovery techniques for our loved one to begin with so Im confused. We discuss our own communication technique, listening skills, how not to enabling and allowing natural consequences and also we discuss the use of positive incentives which can be nothing more than giving our husband a hug. we discuss self care like the other forums and on the secular family forum we usually discuss our own relationships and the details of how we handle things.
I learned more on this thread about how it helps you than all the posts I've read before.
Bluechair, nothing did change when the forums were created. The other forums always had the description of it being about us and not the addict/alcoholic.
I never mentioned that Craft couldn't be talked about. I only said that the focus should be on helping the family member and not the addict. If what you say is accurate and Craft has a lot of help for the family member why are you upset over staying on that topic alone and off the topic of helping the addict?
As far as stickies go the last I remember is that you were going to write some and then we never saw any presented. I'm not in charge of forum stickies on the family and friends forums, but I can put some up here. I remember one member starting a thread, but it had to be removed because she was a formerly banned member who had to banned again.
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: CA
Posts: 10,681
My feelings about the Family and Friends forum is my own, but I think that some Craft members can relate.
I'm really sad that the whole focus seems to be on leaving the addict/alcoholic.
It didn't used to be that way. I have very good friends that I met here years ago that stayed with their addicted loved one and worked it out just fine using recovery tools. There were many here who chose to stay in their relationships. Some of their loved ones have been in recovery for a long time now and some kept using. I have many close friends from all programs who are in recovery.
It pains me to see addicts/alcoholics called terrible names on those forums. I do not feel comfortable reading there because of my personal preference. After years of staying away I opened a safe forum for family members who felt like I do and others who can relate to the unique challenges we face.
This is not to say that those FF members are wrong or fail to put in a lot of time and effort to help others. They do help others. It's just my personal preference to be respectful to all and I have a gentle approach to recovery. I also like to see others share their experience and not as much advice from personal opinions of what action should be taken.
I have no desire to go over there and recruit members or cause problems on those threads that I find painful and different from the way I feel. Every now and then I will post if I can really relate to someone, but I don't read there much unless I read a reported post.
Everyone is entitled to their own preferences. I always hate to see conflict when posts attack or discredit one method in order to prove another method better. It took the Rational Recovery members years before they were able to just describe and teach others about AVRT without having to discredit AA. One member was finally able to come in and do it. Many now have found help because of that.
I'm really sad that the whole focus seems to be on leaving the addict/alcoholic.
It didn't used to be that way. I have very good friends that I met here years ago that stayed with their addicted loved one and worked it out just fine using recovery tools. There were many here who chose to stay in their relationships. Some of their loved ones have been in recovery for a long time now and some kept using. I have many close friends from all programs who are in recovery.
It pains me to see addicts/alcoholics called terrible names on those forums. I do not feel comfortable reading there because of my personal preference. After years of staying away I opened a safe forum for family members who felt like I do and others who can relate to the unique challenges we face.
This is not to say that those FF members are wrong or fail to put in a lot of time and effort to help others. They do help others. It's just my personal preference to be respectful to all and I have a gentle approach to recovery. I also like to see others share their experience and not as much advice from personal opinions of what action should be taken.
I have no desire to go over there and recruit members or cause problems on those threads that I find painful and different from the way I feel. Every now and then I will post if I can really relate to someone, but I don't read there much unless I read a reported post.
Everyone is entitled to their own preferences. I always hate to see conflict when posts attack or discredit one method in order to prove another method better. It took the Rational Recovery members years before they were able to just describe and teach others about AVRT without having to discredit AA. One member was finally able to come in and do it. Many now have found help because of that.
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 112
Originally Posted by Morning Glory 
My feelings about the Family and Friends forum is my own, but I think that some Craft members can relate.
I'm really sad that the whole focus seems to be on leaving the addict/alcoholic.
It didn't used to be that way. I have very good friends that I met here years ago that stayed with their addicted loved one and worked it out just fine using recovery tools. There were many here who chose to stay in their relationships. Some of their loved ones have been in recovery for a long time now and some kept using. I have many close friends from all programs who are in recovery.
It pains me to see addicts/alcoholics called terrible names on those forums. I do not feel comfortable reading there because of my personal preference. After years of staying away I opened a safe forum for family members who felt like I do and others who can relate to the unique challenges we face.
This is not to say that those FF members are wrong or fail to put in a lot of time and effort to help others. They do help others. It's just my personal preference to be respectful to all and I have a gentle approach to recovery. I also like to see others share their experience and not as much advice from personal opinions of what action should be taken.
I have no desire to go over there and recruit members or cause problems on those threads that I find painful and different from the way I feel. Every now and then I will post if I can really relate to someone, but I don't read there much unless I read a reported post.
Everyone is entitled to their own preferences. I always hate to see conflict when posts attack or discredit one method in order to prove another method better. It took the Rational Recovery members years before they were able to just describe and teach others about AVRT without having to discredit AA. One member was finally able to come in and do it. Many now have found help because of that.
I'm really sad that the whole focus seems to be on leaving the addict/alcoholic.
It didn't used to be that way. I have very good friends that I met here years ago that stayed with their addicted loved one and worked it out just fine using recovery tools. There were many here who chose to stay in their relationships. Some of their loved ones have been in recovery for a long time now and some kept using. I have many close friends from all programs who are in recovery.
It pains me to see addicts/alcoholics called terrible names on those forums. I do not feel comfortable reading there because of my personal preference. After years of staying away I opened a safe forum for family members who felt like I do and others who can relate to the unique challenges we face.
This is not to say that those FF members are wrong or fail to put in a lot of time and effort to help others. They do help others. It's just my personal preference to be respectful to all and I have a gentle approach to recovery. I also like to see others share their experience and not as much advice from personal opinions of what action should be taken.
I have no desire to go over there and recruit members or cause problems on those threads that I find painful and different from the way I feel. Every now and then I will post if I can really relate to someone, but I don't read there much unless I read a reported post.
Everyone is entitled to their own preferences. I always hate to see conflict when posts attack or discredit one method in order to prove another method better. It took the Rational Recovery members years before they were able to just describe and teach others about AVRT without having to discredit AA. One member was finally able to come in and do it. Many now have found help because of that.
Perhaps, the forums takes on different attitudes with the ebb and flow of new and old members.
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: CA
Posts: 10,681
It's interesting how differently we perceive things.
Charley I think Bluechair answered my question here.
No one is asked to stay, or made to feel guilty for leaving a bad situation.
No one is asked to leave, or made to feel guilty for staying.
No one is asked to help their loved one
No one is told they cant help their loved one
No one is told they are wrong for wanting to help their loved one
No one is told they are a failure if their efforts dont help their loved one
No one is asked to leave, or made to feel guilty for staying.
No one is asked to help their loved one
No one is told they cant help their loved one
No one is told they are wrong for wanting to help their loved one
No one is told they are a failure if their efforts dont help their loved one
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,854
Originally Posted by Morning Glory
The only time I see anything mentioned about how it's for you and not the addict/alcoholic is when there are questions asked. I'm not going to go through posts right now, but from the posts I remember the focus of the posts are how changing your behavior helped you but mostly helped the addict/alcoholic get into treatment centers, doctors, therapy, counseling, etc...I am not referring to any member's post specifically. I don't remember who writes what. The evidence based treatment is usually focused on the addict.
I learned more on this thread about how it helps you than all the posts I've read before.
Bluechair, nothing did change when the forums were created. The other forums always had the description of it being about us and not the addict/alcoholic.
I never mentioned that Craft couldn't be talked about. I only said that the focus should be on helping the family member and not the addict. If what you say is accurate and Craft has a lot of help for the family member why are you upset over staying on that topic alone and off the topic of helping the addict?
As far as stickies go the last I remember is that you were going to write some and then we never saw any presented. I'm not in charge of forum stickies on the family and friends forums, but I can put some up here. I remember one member starting a thread, but it had to be removed because she was a formerly banned member who had to banned again.
I learned more on this thread about how it helps you than all the posts I've read before.
Bluechair, nothing did change when the forums were created. The other forums always had the description of it being about us and not the addict/alcoholic.
I never mentioned that Craft couldn't be talked about. I only said that the focus should be on helping the family member and not the addict. If what you say is accurate and Craft has a lot of help for the family member why are you upset over staying on that topic alone and off the topic of helping the addict?
As far as stickies go the last I remember is that you were going to write some and then we never saw any presented. I'm not in charge of forum stickies on the family and friends forums, but I can put some up here. I remember one member starting a thread, but it had to be removed because she was a formerly banned member who had to banned again.
HOW THEY CAN HELP THEIR SIGNIFICANT OTHER
A NEW PERSON JUST SHARES A GENERAL STORY, and are often hit up with lots of posts about alanon. Then I will share about Craft. This is close to what I usually say in both cases.
Craft is a non 12 step program for family, its also part of the Smart Recovery. It teaches us about addiction, focuses on our own self care, things like setting limits/boundaries, teaches about enabling and how to step back and allow natural consequences to occur, it also focuses on positive reinforcements, communication skills, reflective listening. And those are a couple of my favorite parts so I usually share this. I also often say Craft is an evidence based approach for family members and has proven results in helping to motivate our loved one to seek change in regards to their substance abuse. Then I say they can look it up online or go to the secular forum for more info.
This is factual information. I cant see why it harms a family member to be given these details when they are asking can they help, or are weighing what program might be right for them.
Now usually, Alanon members will just say "there's nothing you can do" and maybe top it with their program beliefs. Heres one example. (As a non 12 step I disagree with part of the post here, its opposite our program).
If I can say what I usually say, Im content. I only add more if Im asked questions by a member.
Otherwise I only discuss details of our stuff by pm or on the secular forum because it creates too much controversy other places.
My only reason for sharing is to provide info because a lot of people have not heard of any method other than alanon. I had never heard of it, and I know Charley has said she never did until SR. I trust people can look deeper or ask questions if they are interested.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,854
Originally Posted by Morning Glory
Yes it is. I think my perception probably stems from also being an adult child of an alcoholic with a really dysfunctional family. I was the scapegoat and I'm very sensitive. I run away from any tough love approach.
Charley I think Bluechair answered my question here.
No one is asked to stay, or made to feel guilty for leaving a bad situation.*
No one is asked to leave, or made to feel guilty for staying.*
No one is asked to help their loved one*
No one is told they cant help their loved one
No one is told they are wrong for wanting to help their loved one
No one is told they are a failure if their efforts dont help their loved one
Charley I think Bluechair answered my question here.
No one is asked to stay, or made to feel guilty for leaving a bad situation.*
No one is asked to leave, or made to feel guilty for staying.*
No one is asked to help their loved one*
No one is told they cant help their loved one
No one is told they are wrong for wanting to help their loved one
No one is told they are a failure if their efforts dont help their loved one
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: CA
Posts: 10,681
I think the difference Bluechair in the link I read that you posted is that all the members that replied are giving their opinion and speaking to the OP. Not once did they promote a program method.
Your post would be promoting a non 12 step program method.
Instead of promoting the program method you could make it more personal with an opinion or advice that follows what you feel worked for you without promoting the program in every post.
I know though that there would be times to offer the program just like others offer al-anon meetings, but most of the time it should be personal replies without the constant recruiting. We have a troll that comes through here with about 17 different member names. The only thing she posts is Nar-anon addresses and phone numbers. She was banned for that so it is not a program specific issue. She was over the top though.
Your post would be promoting a non 12 step program method.
Instead of promoting the program method you could make it more personal with an opinion or advice that follows what you feel worked for you without promoting the program in every post.
I know though that there would be times to offer the program just like others offer al-anon meetings, but most of the time it should be personal replies without the constant recruiting. We have a troll that comes through here with about 17 different member names. The only thing she posts is Nar-anon addresses and phone numbers. She was banned for that so it is not a program specific issue. She was over the top though.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Canada.
Posts: 795
Blue rescued me. At least that's how I see it. She answered a post on f&F and specifically mentioned smart and Craft. We don't have that here and there was no way I would have found that on my own.
I had been attending 12 step meetings. I was told some not very helpful things, some things that if I had followed through with, could have gotten me into a lot of legal trouble.
Because of blue's post, i found this thread, craft and smart. I feel healthier than I have in years, even though it's hard at times.
Without her specific reference, I would still have been struggling through the 12 step dance.
I had been attending 12 step meetings. I was told some not very helpful things, some things that if I had followed through with, could have gotten me into a lot of legal trouble.
Because of blue's post, i found this thread, craft and smart. I feel healthier than I have in years, even though it's hard at times.
Without her specific reference, I would still have been struggling through the 12 step dance.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 864
If I could think out loud it would be about the constant I see, that the program (meaning CRAFT) teaches one to take care of themselves and not be effected by the addict in their life. The program invites everyone to change their behavior in relationship to the addict in their lives to achieve a desired effect. Its basis is operant conditioning. I can’t help but see a contradiction.
For me how I react to the addicts in my life isn’t about them but me. I am not looking for any desired effect in anyone else. And nothing I do is program based.
I know terms like bottom, tough love and detachment are addressed differently and they would have to be because they would also be a contradiction to what is being taught through the program if they weren’t.
I do think especially for you BlueChair, that maybe if you asked in general what bottom or detachment or tough love meant to anyone, any side, any program you may find what most already know that they mean different things to different people and that it really doesn’t have anything to do with a program. It is more a human nature thing and maybe dependent on the health of the person responding. I am sure I am not the only person who found a different understanding of all the terms I have encountered along the way based not only on my health in the moments but on the time I took to actually educate myself.
And since I am addressing you in this moment Blue Chair you wrote the following in another thread.
One absolute fact will be that we all understand. We all have been there.
In general, again thinking out loud, terms like scientific based bug me in every situation. My nature would have me ask first who’s science?
Words like evidence based would lead to me to ask … What evidence, what/who’s research, what was the hypothesis, what controls were used, what variables were allow or not allowed and why, and how long was the follow up after if any? And were all the stats accounted for not just those that bring in a desired result.
I would also add that no matter what anyone takes from this thread the best part about it which shows something good in my head is that is wasn’t locked.
For me how I react to the addicts in my life isn’t about them but me. I am not looking for any desired effect in anyone else. And nothing I do is program based.
I know terms like bottom, tough love and detachment are addressed differently and they would have to be because they would also be a contradiction to what is being taught through the program if they weren’t.
I do think especially for you BlueChair, that maybe if you asked in general what bottom or detachment or tough love meant to anyone, any side, any program you may find what most already know that they mean different things to different people and that it really doesn’t have anything to do with a program. It is more a human nature thing and maybe dependent on the health of the person responding. I am sure I am not the only person who found a different understanding of all the terms I have encountered along the way based not only on my health in the moments but on the time I took to actually educate myself.
And since I am addressing you in this moment Blue Chair you wrote the following in another thread.
I was going to post earlier but seriously spent time thinking about the off topic thread, and reading posts. Charley and Allfor you both explained things soo good. I get emotional over what happened to Mr Blue, it was really horrible. I dont think people understand what it was like when someone is missing and you know they are out of their right mind and in danger.
In general, again thinking out loud, terms like scientific based bug me in every situation. My nature would have me ask first who’s science?
Words like evidence based would lead to me to ask … What evidence, what/who’s research, what was the hypothesis, what controls were used, what variables were allow or not allowed and why, and how long was the follow up after if any? And were all the stats accounted for not just those that bring in a desired result.
I would also add that no matter what anyone takes from this thread the best part about it which shows something good in my head is that is wasn’t locked.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
Did anyone hear the radio presentation on NPR yesterday regarding AA versus other methods of recovery? It was very interesting. I only say this b/c one of the things mentioned is how hard it is to study effectiveness because everyone is DIFFERENT.
It bugs me also to hear "scientific studies." I think every family is different, every person has a different kind of support system. For myself, I focused on the alcoholic in my life for 18 very long years. I had to change that focus to my children and myself. As I said, I tried the 12 step approach as did my X, and other non-secular based recovery methods. It boils down to NOTHING worked. I don't think many recovery methods take into account the mental illness that is most likely there first.
The program said that 80% of rehabs are focused on 12 step. I do think that 12 step is a great supplement to a program, however many people (including my X) belonged in a dual diagnosis facility, for a much longer period of time. There is an underlying personality disorder that is not going to be treated without serious help from a psychiatrist who is experienced in treating personality disorders mixed with addiction. That is never going to happen. If you research treating personality disorders, it is very hard to treat even without the mixed addiction issues. Very very low success rate.
So for myself, it just depends on WHY the addict is doing what they are doing. At that point, it is up to them and their family how to proceed in that recovery. We are here to support each other during that path.
So, I guess I really am all over the place with recovery, but that is because the addict can be all over the place too.
TGIF!!!!
It bugs me also to hear "scientific studies." I think every family is different, every person has a different kind of support system. For myself, I focused on the alcoholic in my life for 18 very long years. I had to change that focus to my children and myself. As I said, I tried the 12 step approach as did my X, and other non-secular based recovery methods. It boils down to NOTHING worked. I don't think many recovery methods take into account the mental illness that is most likely there first.
The program said that 80% of rehabs are focused on 12 step. I do think that 12 step is a great supplement to a program, however many people (including my X) belonged in a dual diagnosis facility, for a much longer period of time. There is an underlying personality disorder that is not going to be treated without serious help from a psychiatrist who is experienced in treating personality disorders mixed with addiction. That is never going to happen. If you research treating personality disorders, it is very hard to treat even without the mixed addiction issues. Very very low success rate.
So for myself, it just depends on WHY the addict is doing what they are doing. At that point, it is up to them and their family how to proceed in that recovery. We are here to support each other during that path.
So, I guess I really am all over the place with recovery, but that is because the addict can be all over the place too.
TGIF!!!!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,854
Originally Posted by Morning Glory
I think the difference Bluechair in the link I read that you posted is that all the members that replied are giving their opinion and speaking to the OP. Not once did they promote a program method.
Your post would be promoting a non 12 step program method.
Instead of promoting the program method you could make it more personal with an opinion or advice that follows what you feel worked for you without promoting the program in every post.
I know though that there would be times to offer the program just like others offer al-anon meetings, but most of the time it should be personal replies without the constant recruiting. We have a troll that comes through here with about 17 different member names. The only thing she posts is Nar-anon addresses and phone numbers. She was banned for that so it is not a program specific issue. She was over the top though.
Your post would be promoting a non 12 step program method.
Instead of promoting the program method you could make it more personal with an opinion or advice that follows what you feel worked for you without promoting the program in every post.
I know though that there would be times to offer the program just like others offer al-anon meetings, but most of the time it should be personal replies without the constant recruiting. We have a troll that comes through here with about 17 different member names. The only thing she posts is Nar-anon addresses and phone numbers. She was banned for that so it is not a program specific issue. She was over the top though.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Canada.
Posts: 795
I respectfully disagree. I think Blue brings awareness to a method that is not talked about much. Had she not specifically referenced it, I would never had known.
Until we have stickies that we can refer people to, we need to be able to talk about the option of various methods, and allow the OP to make his or her own decisions.
I do know that the phrases "Are you going to Al Anon?"or "Try an Al Anon meeting" are standard and I see them in response to almost every new post. I had it asked of me numerous times before Blue referenced SMART.
Until we have stickies that we can refer people to, we need to be able to talk about the option of various methods, and allow the OP to make his or her own decisions.
I do know that the phrases "Are you going to Al Anon?"or "Try an Al Anon meeting" are standard and I see them in response to almost every new post. I had it asked of me numerous times before Blue referenced SMART.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I know when I reference what helped me, I make it all pretty specific. Celebrate Recovery (12 step program), counseling with a psychiatrist who specializes in helping families with addiction (non 12 step), and SR. Those are the things that helped me, so those are the things I say.
If anyone asks me about any one of these experiences specifically, I will share that. I tried Alanon here in my town, I did not care for it. Not b/c of the program, but I did not click with it like I did CR. That being said, had CR not worked, I would have continued to seek out a program that did. I am a big believer that one should try various methods until they find what works for them. I do think Blue did that, and I think it's absolutely wonderful she found that one that works for her. I wish that for everyone here at SR, no matter what the program is.
I think to dumb down this entire thing, the issue is that we don't want to promote any one program for any one person because what works for you may not work for me, and vice versa.
At least that is my .02
If anyone asks me about any one of these experiences specifically, I will share that. I tried Alanon here in my town, I did not care for it. Not b/c of the program, but I did not click with it like I did CR. That being said, had CR not worked, I would have continued to seek out a program that did. I am a big believer that one should try various methods until they find what works for them. I do think Blue did that, and I think it's absolutely wonderful she found that one that works for her. I wish that for everyone here at SR, no matter what the program is.
I think to dumb down this entire thing, the issue is that we don't want to promote any one program for any one person because what works for you may not work for me, and vice versa.
At least that is my .02
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Canada.
Posts: 795
I agree in theory, Hopeful, but I know for me specifically I needed to have things spelled out. I was at such a point where I couldn't think my way out of a paper bag, much less start to search out answers. Once Blue referenced this, and gave me a pretty clear description of what it was, I could start to see the fog lifting and was able to research then.
We don't have Celebrate Recovery, Smart or Craft here. It was almost a different language, and I didn't have the emotional strength at that moment to search from scratch. I think we forget the fog and sheer emotional and physical exhaustion we feel when we turn to a place like SR. There were some days I couldn't even find the energy to shower, much less start look at recovery plans for myself. Not H, but me.
We don't have Celebrate Recovery, Smart or Craft here. It was almost a different language, and I didn't have the emotional strength at that moment to search from scratch. I think we forget the fog and sheer emotional and physical exhaustion we feel when we turn to a place like SR. There were some days I couldn't even find the energy to shower, much less start look at recovery plans for myself. Not H, but me.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
Charley, that is an excellent point, absolutely. I remember those days. I did not know anything about CR and thought I was going to a place to get my X set up with after he got out of rehab! Talk about codependent! All the things I tried I did in stages, so I think it made it a lot less overwhelming.
I think the stickies regarding CRAFT and SMART is an excellent idea and would be a big help. That way you don't just have one person who feels responsible for having to explain it to everyone else. I truly hope they get those going.
I actually believe in ideas from many different facets of different programs. I am so glad you found what is working for you and that you are feeling better Charley. No one deserves to feel that terrible about their lives, and to find whatever can help you is what is important.
I am really glad to be a part of this thread, I think it offers up some excellent viewpoints from people all going through different walks in life. Hopefully each one of us can gain from each other. Thank you all for sharing, I have learned a lot here.
I think the stickies regarding CRAFT and SMART is an excellent idea and would be a big help. That way you don't just have one person who feels responsible for having to explain it to everyone else. I truly hope they get those going.
I actually believe in ideas from many different facets of different programs. I am so glad you found what is working for you and that you are feeling better Charley. No one deserves to feel that terrible about their lives, and to find whatever can help you is what is important.
I am really glad to be a part of this thread, I think it offers up some excellent viewpoints from people all going through different walks in life. Hopefully each one of us can gain from each other. Thank you all for sharing, I have learned a lot here.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,854
I think the main thing on the main forums is supporting each individual as best as possible. Its clear who works 12 step programs and for me I try to just stay off those.
There are other people who use non 12 step, and when they talk I get it. Australia has more non 12 step for example IMO.
Its the newcomers who like me may not have heard of programs or know AA from tv movies but no facts. On the main forums (to me, my perspective) AA is presented as the true way for recovery. And even some stickies meant for newcomers direct them to educate themselves on addiction through AA/NA. To me this promotes the 12 step ideas only, and it can be apple/orange to whats advised medically in the USA. The following sticky even says Dont look for underlying causes or coexisting issues, and promotes rock bottom for the addict. Of course the article is about 10 years old. I dont know if SR seeks to educate. Its not a knock, I just think its more opinion based because its a forum. (I hope people know to speak to medical doctors for advice).
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...l-problem.html
I only mentioned what I did to Morning Glory because Craft/smart appears to be whats in question, as its a program like alanon. I also share how I did individual counseling, and how my husband and I do family counseling together. I will share on how I dealt with his cheating and other things I had to work throuh. Its a combination of things for me. I dont do individual anymore but we still do family. I have been enjoying and learning from the other sources including SR. .
One of the attacks on counseling I often see is because it costs money. On the forum sometimes its a no win debate. What if someone cant afford counseling, then what? I say the smart/craft behavioral approaches because it matched my own counseling more. Then ive heard people say they dont have meetings. But they do. They have meetings like celebrate recovery where its for everyone with a need to make a change, and they have meetings just for family members. Then they also have online meetings and forums just as alanon offers.
There are other people who use non 12 step, and when they talk I get it. Australia has more non 12 step for example IMO.
Its the newcomers who like me may not have heard of programs or know AA from tv movies but no facts. On the main forums (to me, my perspective) AA is presented as the true way for recovery. And even some stickies meant for newcomers direct them to educate themselves on addiction through AA/NA. To me this promotes the 12 step ideas only, and it can be apple/orange to whats advised medically in the USA. The following sticky even says Dont look for underlying causes or coexisting issues, and promotes rock bottom for the addict. Of course the article is about 10 years old. I dont know if SR seeks to educate. Its not a knock, I just think its more opinion based because its a forum. (I hope people know to speak to medical doctors for advice).
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...l-problem.html
I only mentioned what I did to Morning Glory because Craft/smart appears to be whats in question, as its a program like alanon. I also share how I did individual counseling, and how my husband and I do family counseling together. I will share on how I dealt with his cheating and other things I had to work throuh. Its a combination of things for me. I dont do individual anymore but we still do family. I have been enjoying and learning from the other sources including SR. .
One of the attacks on counseling I often see is because it costs money. On the forum sometimes its a no win debate. What if someone cant afford counseling, then what? I say the smart/craft behavioral approaches because it matched my own counseling more. Then ive heard people say they dont have meetings. But they do. They have meetings like celebrate recovery where its for everyone with a need to make a change, and they have meetings just for family members. Then they also have online meetings and forums just as alanon offers.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
