Can an alcoholic ever drink again in moderation?
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 36
Originally Posted by Nyte Byrd 
And my guess is, it is a poster who has probably only attended perhaps one or two AA meetings. I have met many people who tell me they 'tried' AA. And when I asked them how many meetings they went to, they tell me about six in a year. Hate to say it, but that is not exactly 'trying' anything. That's why they suggest 90 meetings in 90 days, or at least attend 'enough' meetings to decide for yourself if it is for you.
No, AA is not for everyone perhaps. But neither is sobriety. It certainly is not for wimps either. Realize, it is a 'thinking' problem, not really a 'drinking' problem anyway. It was our 'best' thinking that got us where we did. And it is our thinking that has to change. Not just our drinking needs to stop.
As they say, 'the same man will drink again.'
So, your choice. You can listen to a poster who applied contempt prior to true investigation in even giving AA a chance, and abandon AA as an opt because of one person's probable predisposed negativity, or you can listen to the hundreds more on this forum alone who have applied AA in their lives who can give true and honest testimony regarding the positive results in their lives.
Again, the best to you.
No, AA is not for everyone perhaps. But neither is sobriety. It certainly is not for wimps either. Realize, it is a 'thinking' problem, not really a 'drinking' problem anyway. It was our 'best' thinking that got us where we did. And it is our thinking that has to change. Not just our drinking needs to stop.
As they say, 'the same man will drink again.'
So, your choice. You can listen to a poster who applied contempt prior to true investigation in even giving AA a chance, and abandon AA as an opt because of one person's probable predisposed negativity, or you can listen to the hundreds more on this forum alone who have applied AA in their lives who can give true and honest testimony regarding the positive results in their lives.
Again, the best to you.
There seems to be an implication in your comment that AA is the only path to sobriety. I've said it here before, but I know people who are successfully sober without AA, my father among them. I am keeping my options open.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Upstate, N.Y.
Posts: 4,639
Can an alcoholic ever drink again in moderation?
For me the answer is "no". If I pick up 'a drink' again, I will be off to the races again. I was a daily drinker before i got sober, I don't want to go back to that life.
I was also a shy person, and for me the promises in AA of "fear of people will leave us" have come true for me.
As to going to AA meetings, I don't tell anyone AA is the only way. The Internet has open my eyes to other ways people can get sober.
But for me, and only me. I need AA.
My best to you DRI and welcome to SR.
For me the answer is "no". If I pick up 'a drink' again, I will be off to the races again. I was a daily drinker before i got sober, I don't want to go back to that life.
I was also a shy person, and for me the promises in AA of "fear of people will leave us" have come true for me.
As to going to AA meetings, I don't tell anyone AA is the only way. The Internet has open my eyes to other ways people can get sober.
But for me, and only me. I need AA.
My best to you DRI and welcome to SR.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posts: 214
Originally Posted by wildart
I was the poster in question. (I just got a new user name to make myself less identifiable for search engine purposes.) I've only been sober for a month, hence why I'm in the newbie forum, so I certainly wouldn't recommend that anyone try anything. Nor was I saying that I have properly "tried" AA or expressing contempt for it. I've only been to three meetings. It was just my observation. It was my understanding that this was a forum where we were able to freely share those without judgment.
There seems to be an implication in your comment that AA is the only path to sobriety. I've said it here before, but I know people who are successfully sober without AA, my father among them. I am keeping my options open.
There seems to be an implication in your comment that AA is the only path to sobriety. I've said it here before, but I know people who are successfully sober without AA, my father among them. I am keeping my options open.
The negative connotation that 'going to AA only made one wish to drink more' probably gave him the wrong impression of AA and anyone else who read it the idea it was more of an unfair 'judgment' against AA.
But I do hope you do indeed keep your options open and maybe one day realize that AA, while perhaps not for everyone, is probably the most expedient, and most fun filled way to get sober that is around today. I made no implication that AA is the only way to get sober however.
I bet many who are sober in AA today may have initially said the same thing on their first visits, too and then went enough to see it in a different light.
As I did not get to read the entire original post of yours, perhaps there was more to clarify things. So again, I apologize for any misunderstanding due to that.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 28
I said this in a post earlier today, which I think is of a similar idea: I think the question can be stated another way... "Can I ever regain control?"
As the Big Book says, that's the great, endless struggle of every alcoholic drinker: to one day control, and enjoy, his/her drinking. To recapture the fun of what was.
As has been said here, I agree with the progressive nature of the disease...I also think our brains/minds are highly developed, and complicated, but also very difficult to rewire. Once it's been wired that one drink works -- then five -- then ten...it's hard/impossible to go back to "one." The brain has to be rewired totally...IMHO, NO drinks can work for me.
I love the saying, or simply rephrasing things: "Can I regain control?" rephrased is "My drinking is out of control."
It may be an endless battle to discover if control can be regained. In my experience, surrendering has been the only success I've encountered. I spent years trying to get control, and I got worse. Once I surrendered and decided to try a new way of looking at the world -- without a single mood / mind altering drug to change my thinking patterns -- I've noticed my life, in every area, has improved in only a year. I can't wait to see what it's like tomorrow.
As the Big Book says, that's the great, endless struggle of every alcoholic drinker: to one day control, and enjoy, his/her drinking. To recapture the fun of what was.
As has been said here, I agree with the progressive nature of the disease...I also think our brains/minds are highly developed, and complicated, but also very difficult to rewire. Once it's been wired that one drink works -- then five -- then ten...it's hard/impossible to go back to "one." The brain has to be rewired totally...IMHO, NO drinks can work for me.
I love the saying, or simply rephrasing things: "Can I regain control?" rephrased is "My drinking is out of control."
It may be an endless battle to discover if control can be regained. In my experience, surrendering has been the only success I've encountered. I spent years trying to get control, and I got worse. Once I surrendered and decided to try a new way of looking at the world -- without a single mood / mind altering drug to change my thinking patterns -- I've noticed my life, in every area, has improved in only a year. I can't wait to see what it's like tomorrow.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 6
Well, it seems like this topic, understandably, is not a popular one for the most part.
I came here to get some information and opinions, because I don’t know anyone in ‘real life’ that I could ask. I was just curious to know if there were any stories out there of ‘former’ alcoholics who ever returned to ‘normal’ drinking, even it was just a glass of wine with dinner on occasion.
When I mentioned that reading about drinking had made me think about it a lot more, and when I questioned whether AA meetings would be a benefit to me, I certainly did not mean to imply that AA meetings would cause someone to start to drink again. I was simply relaying my experiences and how reading about it had affected me.
If meetings work for certain people, then I would never even dream of trying to discourage someone from attending them. If anyone thought otherwise, then perhaps I was not clear, or perhaps they misunderstood what I wrote. Of course I know that AA meeting don’t cause people to drink, I was simply trying to express how reading about it had affected me personally after not having the subject ‘in my face’ for so long.
I suppose the reason was that it has been a long time since I have drank, and just reading so much about it all of a sudden over a short period of time had, at least to me, a somewhat negative effect. For the most part, any real cravings are thankfully long behind me, and it is only casual curiosity that caused me to ask that question and register here.
At least for me personally, I did not feel that going to meetings now after 2 ˝ years would be a benefit for me, because I have had success on my own by just quitting and not looking back. So at least for me, at this stage, I didn’t really see the point of starting to go to meetings now after all this time.
The only reason why I am here was to just get some opinions on my question, I am not here because I feel that I am in any danger of a relapse. Like I had said, it is just a question that I had wondered about, and since I had no-one else to ask, it seemed like this forum would be the place to ask. At the same time, I do understand that what I asked may not to too popular of a question, and I do realize that addiction is a personal thing, and there are many differing degrees of addiction depending on the individual person and their circumstances and history.
By comparison to others, I guess my problem was not very severe, as I ‘only’ drank an average of 4-5 days a week, and I was not the type that had to drink to the point that I was falling over or blacking out. Some nights I would ‘only’ drink a six pack, or a mickey of rye. I have never had any other serious drug addiction besides smoking weed.
Having said that, I must also say that I appreciate all of the genuine replies and advice that some people have given me, but I also have received, not surprisingly, a few replies that have a not so friendly vibe, and have been slightly condescending. But again, I suppose I can expect replies like that given the type of forum that this is, and given the nature of my question.
I suppose that I have received all the replies on this subject that I need, and I will not be posting in this thread again. I want to extend my thanks and appreciation to everyone who took the time to reply to me, and I wish the very best to you all.
Take care.
I came here to get some information and opinions, because I don’t know anyone in ‘real life’ that I could ask. I was just curious to know if there were any stories out there of ‘former’ alcoholics who ever returned to ‘normal’ drinking, even it was just a glass of wine with dinner on occasion.
When I mentioned that reading about drinking had made me think about it a lot more, and when I questioned whether AA meetings would be a benefit to me, I certainly did not mean to imply that AA meetings would cause someone to start to drink again. I was simply relaying my experiences and how reading about it had affected me.
If meetings work for certain people, then I would never even dream of trying to discourage someone from attending them. If anyone thought otherwise, then perhaps I was not clear, or perhaps they misunderstood what I wrote. Of course I know that AA meeting don’t cause people to drink, I was simply trying to express how reading about it had affected me personally after not having the subject ‘in my face’ for so long.
I suppose the reason was that it has been a long time since I have drank, and just reading so much about it all of a sudden over a short period of time had, at least to me, a somewhat negative effect. For the most part, any real cravings are thankfully long behind me, and it is only casual curiosity that caused me to ask that question and register here.
At least for me personally, I did not feel that going to meetings now after 2 ˝ years would be a benefit for me, because I have had success on my own by just quitting and not looking back. So at least for me, at this stage, I didn’t really see the point of starting to go to meetings now after all this time.
The only reason why I am here was to just get some opinions on my question, I am not here because I feel that I am in any danger of a relapse. Like I had said, it is just a question that I had wondered about, and since I had no-one else to ask, it seemed like this forum would be the place to ask. At the same time, I do understand that what I asked may not to too popular of a question, and I do realize that addiction is a personal thing, and there are many differing degrees of addiction depending on the individual person and their circumstances and history.
By comparison to others, I guess my problem was not very severe, as I ‘only’ drank an average of 4-5 days a week, and I was not the type that had to drink to the point that I was falling over or blacking out. Some nights I would ‘only’ drink a six pack, or a mickey of rye. I have never had any other serious drug addiction besides smoking weed.
Having said that, I must also say that I appreciate all of the genuine replies and advice that some people have given me, but I also have received, not surprisingly, a few replies that have a not so friendly vibe, and have been slightly condescending. But again, I suppose I can expect replies like that given the type of forum that this is, and given the nature of my question.
I suppose that I have received all the replies on this subject that I need, and I will not be posting in this thread again. I want to extend my thanks and appreciation to everyone who took the time to reply to me, and I wish the very best to you all.
Take care.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,444
I hope you found some stuff here to help.
Going back to your original post - I still remains my contention that it's not necessary to drink to have a social life...and, if your recovery is a good one, it's not necessary to fear alcohol if you do come across it in the course of that social life
Good luck and best wishes,
D
Going back to your original post - I still remains my contention that it's not necessary to drink to have a social life...and, if your recovery is a good one, it's not necessary to fear alcohol if you do come across it in the course of that social life
Good luck and best wishes,
D
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 28
Originally Posted by Dee74
I hope you found some stuff here to help.
Going back to your original post - I still remains my contention that it's not necessary to drink to have a social life...and, if your recovery is a good one, it's not necessary to fear alcohol if you do come across it in the course of that social life
Good luck and best wishes,
D
Going back to your original post - I still remains my contention that it's not necessary to drink to have a social life...and, if your recovery is a good one, it's not necessary to fear alcohol if you do come across it in the course of that social life
Good luck and best wishes,
D
It's a tough spot to be in -- where many, many people are not only here, but in the rooms, in their lives, etc. It's tough to let go of a lifestyle that, at first, was enjoyable but, in the end, was not -- and a lifestyle that will keep on trying to convince you it'll be possible to moderate.
Talk about frustration and heartache!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posts: 214
Originally Posted by DRI
I came here to get some information and opinions, because I don’t know anyone in ‘real life’ that I could ask. I was just curious to know if there were any stories out there of ‘former’ alcoholics who ever returned to ‘normal’ drinking, even it was just a glass of wine with dinner on occasion.
Originally Posted by DRI
When I mentioned that reading about drinking had made me think about it a lot more, and when I questioned whether AA meetings would be a benefit to me, I certainly did not mean to imply that AA meetings would cause someone to start to drink again. If meetings work for certain people, then I would never even dream of trying to discourage someone from attending them. If anyone thought otherwise, then perhaps I was not clear, or perhaps they misunderstood what I wrote. Of course I know that AA meeting don’t cause people to drink,...
Originally Posted by DRI
Having said that, I must also say that I appreciate all of the genuine replies and advice that some people have given me, but I also have received, not surprisingly, a few replies that have a not so friendly vibe, and have been slightly condescending. But again, I suppose I can expect replies like that given the type of forum that this is, and given the nature of my question.
Originally Posted by DRI
I suppose that I have received all the replies on this subject that I need, and I will not be posting in this thread again. I want to extend my thanks and appreciation to everyone who took the time to reply to me, and I wish the very best to you all.
Take care.
Take care.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: on the moon
Posts: 944
Originally Posted by DRI
What I'd like to know is if there are any former alcoholics that have ever returned to 'casual', or 'social' drinking and been able to keep it under control?
you should know the answer to your own question.
after 7 years on the wagon i returned to "social drinking". and it really was working well.......for a week or two. then i increased my alcohol consumption to greater levels than before i'd gone on the wagon! and as a result all sorts of unpleasent things started happening to me
stay away from it.
Don't resist, allow
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South East of England
Posts: 1,521
Hi DRI
Please don't think people are being condescending, any alcoholic thinking about drinking is in denial and it takes straight plain talking if there is any chance of breaking through that denial. People here take any hint of a relapse seriously - relapse can kill. Thanks for clarifying that you are not actually thinking of drinking again - that's very reassuring to hear your recovery stands firm.
As to the question not being popular.....on the contary it has been very popular. This type of discussion is immensely helpful to many, so thank you for posting.
Although the answers may not have been exactly what you were thinking of in terms of your curiosity they may just have stopped one sober alcoholic from picking up a drink today who was not as brave as you to post his/her question. That may be one life saved and a whole family spared misery. We all help each other here; by posting the original question you play a big part in that.
Take care.
Originally Posted by DRI
I am not here because I feel that I am in any danger of a relapse. Like I had said, it is just a question that I had wondered about, and since I had no-one else to ask, it seemed like this forum would be the place to ask. At the same time, I do understand that what I asked may not to too popular of a question.
Please don't think people are being condescending, any alcoholic thinking about drinking is in denial and it takes straight plain talking if there is any chance of breaking through that denial. People here take any hint of a relapse seriously - relapse can kill. Thanks for clarifying that you are not actually thinking of drinking again - that's very reassuring to hear your recovery stands firm.
As to the question not being popular.....on the contary it has been very popular. This type of discussion is immensely helpful to many, so thank you for posting.
Although the answers may not have been exactly what you were thinking of in terms of your curiosity they may just have stopped one sober alcoholic from picking up a drink today who was not as brave as you to post his/her question. That may be one life saved and a whole family spared misery. We all help each other here; by posting the original question you play a big part in that.
Take care.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ontario
Posts: 806
Originally Posted by Nyte Byrd
Yeah, I was a 'social' drinker, too.
You drink....'so shall' I.
You say you are shy by nature and don't go out much and your social life has suffered since abstinance. I could be wrong, but I get the feeling it sounds as if you haven't gotten 'out' to that many meetings as well.
And hanging out in bars with a bottle of water isn't exactly the healthiest environment to be in to socialize.
Hang out in a barbershop long enough, and you're bound to get a haircut in time. When yer in a bar and yer unexpectedly upset, see if you order a 'water'!
And if you truly read the AA Big Book, you would have found the answers you seek. If you ask yourself honestly, whether you really think taking another drink would not have the same negative results as they had before, you would come to realize the meaning of insanity, believing that doing the same thing over and over would have different results than the last time.
If you wish to take the test the book suggests, then go out and try some more controlled drinking. See if you
can stop on your own following that for a couple of weeks. But I think you already know the answer to that.
Some of us will pursue the ultimate illusion to our deaths that we can once again control our drinking. And one of my most despised adages I hear in AA is, 'some of us have to go out and 'die', so some of us can stay and live.
You've got over two years clean now. Some people remain sober 'around' the program and the steps'. It makes a world of difference when one gets sober 'in' the program. Stick with the winners. Get a sponsor. Go to live meetings. Do what works for others. Or learn what doesn't work, like so many have had to before you.
There are those who learn from their own mistakes; those who learn from others (God Bless them); and sadly, those who just never learn at all.
There is a reason they call it alcohol-IS-m....
not alcohol-WAS-m. Good luck to you in whatever choice you decide to make.
btw....I was 36 when I got sober. I am now 58. Of course, you can always come back when yer older. "Some" of us will still be here.
You drink....'so shall' I.
You say you are shy by nature and don't go out much and your social life has suffered since abstinance. I could be wrong, but I get the feeling it sounds as if you haven't gotten 'out' to that many meetings as well.
And hanging out in bars with a bottle of water isn't exactly the healthiest environment to be in to socialize.
Hang out in a barbershop long enough, and you're bound to get a haircut in time. When yer in a bar and yer unexpectedly upset, see if you order a 'water'!
And if you truly read the AA Big Book, you would have found the answers you seek. If you ask yourself honestly, whether you really think taking another drink would not have the same negative results as they had before, you would come to realize the meaning of insanity, believing that doing the same thing over and over would have different results than the last time.
If you wish to take the test the book suggests, then go out and try some more controlled drinking. See if you
can stop on your own following that for a couple of weeks. But I think you already know the answer to that.
Some of us will pursue the ultimate illusion to our deaths that we can once again control our drinking. And one of my most despised adages I hear in AA is, 'some of us have to go out and 'die', so some of us can stay and live.
You've got over two years clean now. Some people remain sober 'around' the program and the steps'. It makes a world of difference when one gets sober 'in' the program. Stick with the winners. Get a sponsor. Go to live meetings. Do what works for others. Or learn what doesn't work, like so many have had to before you.
There are those who learn from their own mistakes; those who learn from others (God Bless them); and sadly, those who just never learn at all.
There is a reason they call it alcohol-IS-m....
not alcohol-WAS-m. Good luck to you in whatever choice you decide to make.
btw....I was 36 when I got sober. I am now 58. Of course, you can always come back when yer older. "Some" of us will still be here.
"Awesome!" thanks for this post
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Belleville, Michigan
Posts: 8
Heres what I think...........if you are like me and MOST alcoholics, your drinking got so bad that friends and especially family members like wives, brothers, parents..etc, were really really REALLY affected by your drinking. They lost trust, lost hope and most of all...lost all respect for you. Then...by the grace of a higher power, you got sober. This couldnt have pleased these people more. Finally...he is SOBER !!! Now...lets say in some fantasy land that you are able to drink socially again (which isnt possible by the way). Good luck convincing ANYONE who cares about you or YOU care about of that. They wont see someone who can drink normally. All they will see is a drunk who is now drinking again. And the answer isnt "well I will just not tell those people"...because right there, you are doing one of the biggest things an alcoholic does in hiding it. The whole idea behind getting sober is finding a life where you dont WANT to drink anymore. Your social life shouldnt be suffering because you are now sober. This is a problem. You shouldnt think that alcohol will help you talk to girls or anyone else and being at a bar should be the last place you WANT to be.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Belleville, Michigan
Posts: 8
Oh...one more thing......."normal" drinkers do not EVER have to control their drinking. It just isnt an issue. And think about it...does having to "control" your drinking sound like any fun at all to you???
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Belleville, Michigan
Posts: 8
Okay...last ONE MORE THING. I just wanted to let you know that you do not NEED booze to talk to anyone. You really shouldnt WANT to be around those people anyway. I met someone IN an AA meeting that I have been dating for over 4 years now. You can find that too
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 1,591
DRI, you've got a good thing going by not drinking. Someone really important to me stopped in 1987 and then went back in 2000. He killed himself in 2002. Why bother with testing it out?
Shy with the girls? I know what it's like. I have a shy side. For some people it's not a good idea to go to bars, for others it's OK; and when it comes down to it, alcohol is in some grocery stores (depending on where you live). So if you ARE in a drinking setting, you can be without alcohol and be fine just as you are. You should be able to think up lots of good lines with the benefit of NOT drinking and try them out on the girls. (Why would you want to be anything other than yourself?) After a few lines, say, "I guess you can see I'm a little shy; you still think I'm cute though, don't you?" I don't know. I will bet there are lots of women who would find someone who is NOT INTERESTED in drinking and also shy to be more interesting and original.
Shy with the girls? I know what it's like. I have a shy side. For some people it's not a good idea to go to bars, for others it's OK; and when it comes down to it, alcohol is in some grocery stores (depending on where you live). So if you ARE in a drinking setting, you can be without alcohol and be fine just as you are. You should be able to think up lots of good lines with the benefit of NOT drinking and try them out on the girls. (Why would you want to be anything other than yourself?) After a few lines, say, "I guess you can see I'm a little shy; you still think I'm cute though, don't you?" I don't know. I will bet there are lots of women who would find someone who is NOT INTERESTED in drinking and also shy to be more interesting and original.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Belleville, Michigan
Posts: 8
Originally Posted by Toronto68
DRI, you've got a good thing going by not drinking. Someone really important to me stopped in 1987 and then went back in 2000. He killed himself in 2002. Why bother with testing it out?
Shy with the girls? I know what it's like. I have a shy side. For some people it's not a good idea to go to bars, for others it's OK; and when it comes down to it, alcohol is in some grocery stores (depending on where you live). So if you ARE in a drinking setting, you can be without alcohol and be fine just as you are. You should be able to think up lots of good lines with the benefit of NOT drinking and try them out on the girls. (Why would you want to be anything other than yourself?) After a few lines, say, "I guess you can see I'm a little shy; you still think I'm cute though, don't you?" I don't know. I will bet there are lots of women who would find someone who is NOT INTERESTED in drinking and also shy to be more interesting and original.
Shy with the girls? I know what it's like. I have a shy side. For some people it's not a good idea to go to bars, for others it's OK; and when it comes down to it, alcohol is in some grocery stores (depending on where you live). So if you ARE in a drinking setting, you can be without alcohol and be fine just as you are. You should be able to think up lots of good lines with the benefit of NOT drinking and try them out on the girls. (Why would you want to be anything other than yourself?) After a few lines, say, "I guess you can see I'm a little shy; you still think I'm cute though, don't you?" I don't know. I will bet there are lots of women who would find someone who is NOT INTERESTED in drinking and also shy to be more interesting and original.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Raleigh NC
Posts: 100
You might be able to get away with it for a little while but sooner or later chances are the same thing that drove you to drinking at home alone will return and Alcoholism progresses so it will get worse. I highly suggest you join an AA group and make some friends there. You need to get out and socialize because Alcoholism tends to isolate us from the world, even as a dry drunk. I think if you give a 12 step program a chance you will find that Alcohol is a symptom of something else going on. You may have already made your mind up and sometimes people need to go back and test the waters to prove to themselves they can't control it but that is a risky thing to do considering Alcoholism is a deadly disease in MANY ways. Good luck!
Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dallas, Tx
Posts: 2,405
I've always thought that one of the main reasons AA and other recovery groups are so full of people that have relapsed is because alcoholics ask themself this question and decide that it is possible to drink in moderation. My father was a drunk for 25+ years then at 60 he became very ill and was told among other things that he had to stop drinking and he did. He didn't drink at all for 10+ years then he started to have just 1 dark beer every couple of days and he would sip it, my mother was a teetotaler(sp?) so she watched him closely and he was able to drink just 1, but he was 75 yrs old and not in great health and has a weak stomach (which I inherited) so controlling for him was easy. He did cut out even that 1 drink though when my mom died out of respect for her.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
