Story of a wonderful man w/ a horrible problem...
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 32
Kidsandmemake3...
OMG, woman. Yet another primo post. Can I fly you in to talk to my friend’s cousin?
You know, I don’t think you’ll have a problem recognizing healthy love in the future. Look at your love for your kids. If that’s not knowing what healthy is, I don’t know what is!
Also, rather than getting mad at your hubby for doing exactly what any good active addict will do and trying to change him into someone you want him to be, you’ve accepted he is who he is and if he’s going to continue to make bad choices than you don’t have to be a part of that.
You have picked a part your situation beautifully, making all the right connections as well. By what you’ve put together in just 2 posts shows that you have already set the bar higher for yourself and that the Booby Prize is no longer an option. Go for the GOLD!!
Another really awesome message in your posts is that just because we love someone does not in any way mean we SHOULD be with them or that loving them means they are good for us. I think knowing that just sets that bar even higher.
Your “Prince Charming” statement reminded me of when I was told “hate the addiction, not the addict” as if the two were separate from each other. They aren’t unless the addict has made that commitment to recovery. My ex was great for the 9 weeks in between binges… and he had a sponsor and was going to meetings every night. One lie told to spend one cent on one second of crack use means all that “great” stuff about him meant absolutely nothing in the end. Because once the lines between fact and fiction become muddled, once you aren’t quite sure if you’re talking to “The Prince” or the “frog”, then you have to assume you’re talking to the “frog” (if that makes any sense
So, keep writing, lady! You express your insights so very well. This is really good info I can pass along to my friend. Thank you so very much.
OMG, woman. Yet another primo post. Can I fly you in to talk to my friend’s cousin?
You know, I don’t think you’ll have a problem recognizing healthy love in the future. Look at your love for your kids. If that’s not knowing what healthy is, I don’t know what is!
Also, rather than getting mad at your hubby for doing exactly what any good active addict will do and trying to change him into someone you want him to be, you’ve accepted he is who he is and if he’s going to continue to make bad choices than you don’t have to be a part of that.
You have picked a part your situation beautifully, making all the right connections as well. By what you’ve put together in just 2 posts shows that you have already set the bar higher for yourself and that the Booby Prize is no longer an option. Go for the GOLD!!
Another really awesome message in your posts is that just because we love someone does not in any way mean we SHOULD be with them or that loving them means they are good for us. I think knowing that just sets that bar even higher.
Your “Prince Charming” statement reminded me of when I was told “hate the addiction, not the addict” as if the two were separate from each other. They aren’t unless the addict has made that commitment to recovery. My ex was great for the 9 weeks in between binges… and he had a sponsor and was going to meetings every night. One lie told to spend one cent on one second of crack use means all that “great” stuff about him meant absolutely nothing in the end. Because once the lines between fact and fiction become muddled, once you aren’t quite sure if you’re talking to “The Prince” or the “frog”, then you have to assume you’re talking to the “frog” (if that makes any sense
So, keep writing, lady! You express your insights so very well. This is really good info I can pass along to my friend. Thank you so very much.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 32
As expected.
I’ve done all I can do, which is basically listening and pointing out the inconsistencies in his behavior and his statements. I only went into the points of my relationship with an addict that mirror hers since anything beyond that will be met with “just ‘cuz it happened to you doesn’t mean it’ll happen to me”, so I’ve kept it all relative.
She did take him back Saturday, after only a week. It’s obvious she didn’t think she’d have to make good on that ultimatum. She just wanted to see if he’d prove himself not only to her but to those closest to her. And he did prove himself, just not the way she wanted. So, rather than her seeing his actions as the answer, she keeps concentrating on his “wonderful” qualities (the “wonderful” is what brought me to this thread).
He also was the reason she ended her crappy marriage. He was everything her husband wasn’t, of course, and she grabbed on. But after the divorce, he started to put things off, giving excuses as to why now isn’t the right time make any permanent plans and so forth.
So, now she’s even more determined to push this ahead. Since all of her friends are getting engaged and married and starting families, she’s wanting a “happily ever after”, too. She believes if they live together, he’ll want to give up his addiction. Thing is, she’s expecting a 44 year old crack addict to just all of a sudden drop his addiction, become responsible, honest, be a doting step-father and a supportive partner.
She’s 30 years old, with 3 kids, has the world by the tail and could have any guy she wanted. But it’s almost like she thinks this guy is her absolute last chance at love and she’ll do whatever it takes so she can live with the “fun, wonderful guy” she initially met.
The other issue is he, too, has a pretty deep resentment for someone in his past. She finds his mocking his ex funny, which makes her feel special. But I also get the feeling it bothers her to a certain extent. Like, why does he even think enough of the ex to mock her, ya know? There’s definitely more to that story.
As far as my friend goes, she’s really supportive of her cousin, and she’s really worried. I told her that this would be a good opportunity for her to GENTLY suggest her cousin seek professional help, not to mention get tested (good advice. Thanks!). The cousin’s choice of partners has never been very good and she tends to gravitate toward people who have “drama” in general. Basically, drama IS the central theme in her life. And with 3 kids, she really should get a handle on this ASAP.
So, it’ll play out however it’s gonna play out.
I’ve done all I can do, which is basically listening and pointing out the inconsistencies in his behavior and his statements. I only went into the points of my relationship with an addict that mirror hers since anything beyond that will be met with “just ‘cuz it happened to you doesn’t mean it’ll happen to me”, so I’ve kept it all relative.
She did take him back Saturday, after only a week. It’s obvious she didn’t think she’d have to make good on that ultimatum. She just wanted to see if he’d prove himself not only to her but to those closest to her. And he did prove himself, just not the way she wanted. So, rather than her seeing his actions as the answer, she keeps concentrating on his “wonderful” qualities (the “wonderful” is what brought me to this thread).
He also was the reason she ended her crappy marriage. He was everything her husband wasn’t, of course, and she grabbed on. But after the divorce, he started to put things off, giving excuses as to why now isn’t the right time make any permanent plans and so forth.
So, now she’s even more determined to push this ahead. Since all of her friends are getting engaged and married and starting families, she’s wanting a “happily ever after”, too. She believes if they live together, he’ll want to give up his addiction. Thing is, she’s expecting a 44 year old crack addict to just all of a sudden drop his addiction, become responsible, honest, be a doting step-father and a supportive partner.
She’s 30 years old, with 3 kids, has the world by the tail and could have any guy she wanted. But it’s almost like she thinks this guy is her absolute last chance at love and she’ll do whatever it takes so she can live with the “fun, wonderful guy” she initially met.
The other issue is he, too, has a pretty deep resentment for someone in his past. She finds his mocking his ex funny, which makes her feel special. But I also get the feeling it bothers her to a certain extent. Like, why does he even think enough of the ex to mock her, ya know? There’s definitely more to that story.
As far as my friend goes, she’s really supportive of her cousin, and she’s really worried. I told her that this would be a good opportunity for her to GENTLY suggest her cousin seek professional help, not to mention get tested (good advice. Thanks!). The cousin’s choice of partners has never been very good and she tends to gravitate toward people who have “drama” in general. Basically, drama IS the central theme in her life. And with 3 kids, she really should get a handle on this ASAP.
So, it’ll play out however it’s gonna play out.
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Posts: 74
Cher,
I thank you so much for posting this, and to all of the people who responded. I too am in love with a man who when I met him was told was an addict in recovery, only to find out soon after he was not. He too is, as I write this, out on a binge (4 days now). We ended things 2 weeks ago for him to focus on his recovery. I now think he left to be able to continue to use without the guilt. I know how difficult is is to leave a man you love, even when you know it is the best thing for you. I love him still and pray for him to be safe, well and ALIVE!!!
I thank you so much for posting this, and to all of the people who responded. I too am in love with a man who when I met him was told was an addict in recovery, only to find out soon after he was not. He too is, as I write this, out on a binge (4 days now). We ended things 2 weeks ago for him to focus on his recovery. I now think he left to be able to continue to use without the guilt. I know how difficult is is to leave a man you love, even when you know it is the best thing for you. I love him still and pray for him to be safe, well and ALIVE!!!
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 65
Firstly, to brentsgirl... 
To IForgot... Wow. I’m just curious if when you talked, did your stories focus on the similarities of just the flags? Or were you able to connect with her with the similarities of the good things?
And I have to ask how is this sitting with you?
To IForgot... Wow. I’m just curious if when you talked, did your stories focus on the similarities of just the flags? Or were you able to connect with her with the similarities of the good things?
And I have to ask how is this sitting with you?
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 32
brentsgirl... I'm so sorry. I wish there was a magical fix. :ghug3
Hope4Always:
Yeah, that did work as a matter of fact.
You know, if you tell the same story you would in a support group to someone on the outside or to someone like my friend’s cousin who isn’t even seeing the obvious flags, the story sounds like all my ex did 24/7/365 was intentionally cook up ways to screw me and manipulate me and lie to me and everyone else around him. That’s not accurate. What he DID do was cook up ways he could use, and if anyone got in the way of those plans, he’d lie and manipulate and what ever else so he could use.
So, all I did was find SOMETHING she could relate to. I said unless he comes to you and says “Sweets, I’m gonna blow my paycheck, maybe use on credit and loan out the car and steal some dough from you so I can blow some base 2 weeks from now with my crack whore”, then he is lying and manipulating you at some point. That opened the door a little bit to the possibility that he’s not as honest about other things either.
Since she didn’t connect with his using after she gave the ultimatum, I suggested she mention rehab or day programs or any number of other recovery options in conjunction with meetings. This would be a sorta gage to see how important she is to him and to see how serious he is about getting clean. When she brought this up to him, he said he only needs more meetings. However, he did, apparently, do rehab and day programs and other recovery options with the ex he resents to high heaven. Interesting.
If that all can be explained properly, THAT’S when they’ll look at things a bit more critically. THAT’S when they will begin to open their eyes wider than their hearts.
And I’m doing okay, thank you! You don’t really know how much you’ve grown as a person until you’re tested.
I’m just a little sad that this intelligent girl is tossing it away on a “wait and see” 44 year old crack addict. But we all have our own roads to travel, right?
Sorry again for the length! Hopefully it’ll help someone else.
Hope4Always:
Yeah, that did work as a matter of fact.
You know, if you tell the same story you would in a support group to someone on the outside or to someone like my friend’s cousin who isn’t even seeing the obvious flags, the story sounds like all my ex did 24/7/365 was intentionally cook up ways to screw me and manipulate me and lie to me and everyone else around him. That’s not accurate. What he DID do was cook up ways he could use, and if anyone got in the way of those plans, he’d lie and manipulate and what ever else so he could use.
So, all I did was find SOMETHING she could relate to. I said unless he comes to you and says “Sweets, I’m gonna blow my paycheck, maybe use on credit and loan out the car and steal some dough from you so I can blow some base 2 weeks from now with my crack whore”, then he is lying and manipulating you at some point. That opened the door a little bit to the possibility that he’s not as honest about other things either.
Since she didn’t connect with his using after she gave the ultimatum, I suggested she mention rehab or day programs or any number of other recovery options in conjunction with meetings. This would be a sorta gage to see how important she is to him and to see how serious he is about getting clean. When she brought this up to him, he said he only needs more meetings. However, he did, apparently, do rehab and day programs and other recovery options with the ex he resents to high heaven. Interesting.
If that all can be explained properly, THAT’S when they’ll look at things a bit more critically. THAT’S when they will begin to open their eyes wider than their hearts.
And I’m doing okay, thank you! You don’t really know how much you’ve grown as a person until you’re tested.
I’m just a little sad that this intelligent girl is tossing it away on a “wait and see” 44 year old crack addict. But we all have our own roads to travel, right?
Sorry again for the length! Hopefully it’ll help someone else.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 45
Well, i'm back. And I have to say, I'm glad I started this thread... it's amazing the ideas that have been shared and expressed, all from such wonderful people!! Well, anyhow, i've been away from here for a little while... back at Easter, I said I was done. I was done with the crack addict in my life, and I had to move forward. Well, thats what I thought... then I got sucked back in. And here we are, 5 weeks or so later... The frog that has been 'pretending to be prince charming' turned back into a frog again. I should've known. But life is full of mistakes, the important thing is to try to learn from them I guess. He went on a binge last night... things had been so good, and he had convinced me to 'stick by him - see him through... he wouldn't let me down, cuz he didn't want to ever lose me'.... yeah. Sure. So 5 weeks later, and 2 therapy sessions a week plus nightly meetings that he's been attending, and same results. So, this time, I just pray that I have the strength to never look back - shut the door - all those good cliches! He broke my heart and devastated me back in March... now there's just nothing there to break, so maybe it will be easier to really hold my ground this time around. My kids need me, and I need me... I don't need chaos and uncertainty and lies and, well, quite frankly, bull$hit. I think this time, I have to have no contact, and STICK TO IT!! It is so hard, because he's such an integral part of my life... but i have to remind myself that him as a whole person is not a part of my life - only the part of him that 'isn't the addict'... which breaks down to really meaning NO PART of him is a part of my life. He wants crack, more then he wants me and my babies. And that hurts, bottom line.
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 32
Cher-
My apologies for taking up so much time up in your thread! But I have to say the title of the thread is perfect for all of this talk since that’s exactly what everyone thought of their addict.
And I certainly don’t say this to add insult to injury, but unless you live with them, know their sponsor and are somewhat involved with their recovery everyday, OR you know they are tucked away in rehab or a recovery house, you’re left to trust the word of someone who has already proven to be someone who will lie in order to get what they want. So, unless you were following him, chances are he wasn’t doing everything he said he was. And if he did all of that, it was certainly just for show.
And this was not a mistake. It was a learning experience for you. It’s now your responsibility to use what you’ve learned to make things better for you and your kids. But I have to warn you, these “learning experiences” get more difficult every time you cave in. It IS a dangerous game and your kids are smack-dab in the middle. Whatever affects you WILL affect them. Whether it be emotionally, financially, etc…
And if you can bear with me for ONE second more…
There’s one issue about no contact that I don’t think was brought up. It’s been stated here already that no contact protects us from getting sucked back in to a relationship. VERY important point. But it’s even a little bit more basic than that. You have to ask yourself, why would you want to even associate with someone who has proven they're a liar? An intimate relationship is sacred. And if someone has deliberately broken that, they aren’t going to all of a sudden become a good friend. I’ve never kept people in my life who would manipulate and lie to me, cheat on me or steal from me, so I wasn’t willing to keep my ex in my life either. There was absolutely nothing good I could gain from having a connection with him.
Anyway, I’m sorry you’re back. But here you can heal and rant away and get out any of that poisonous crap you’re carrying so you can move the hell on.
My apologies for taking up so much time up in your thread! But I have to say the title of the thread is perfect for all of this talk since that’s exactly what everyone thought of their addict.
And I certainly don’t say this to add insult to injury, but unless you live with them, know their sponsor and are somewhat involved with their recovery everyday, OR you know they are tucked away in rehab or a recovery house, you’re left to trust the word of someone who has already proven to be someone who will lie in order to get what they want. So, unless you were following him, chances are he wasn’t doing everything he said he was. And if he did all of that, it was certainly just for show.
And this was not a mistake. It was a learning experience for you. It’s now your responsibility to use what you’ve learned to make things better for you and your kids. But I have to warn you, these “learning experiences” get more difficult every time you cave in. It IS a dangerous game and your kids are smack-dab in the middle. Whatever affects you WILL affect them. Whether it be emotionally, financially, etc…
And if you can bear with me for ONE second more…
There’s one issue about no contact that I don’t think was brought up. It’s been stated here already that no contact protects us from getting sucked back in to a relationship. VERY important point. But it’s even a little bit more basic than that. You have to ask yourself, why would you want to even associate with someone who has proven they're a liar? An intimate relationship is sacred. And if someone has deliberately broken that, they aren’t going to all of a sudden become a good friend. I’ve never kept people in my life who would manipulate and lie to me, cheat on me or steal from me, so I wasn’t willing to keep my ex in my life either. There was absolutely nothing good I could gain from having a connection with him.
Anyway, I’m sorry you’re back. But here you can heal and rant away and get out any of that poisonous crap you’re carrying so you can move the hell on.
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 65
Cher:
I don’t think there’s even one thing I could say that hasn’t already been said 50 different ways. But of course, I’m sorry you’re back as well. Seems a pattern has emerged with his using, too.
The one thing I can suggest is now that you are seeing him for what he is with your *eyes*, you would do yourself a huge service by going back to the very beginning of this thread and re-read those initial posts. A little at a time, of course, to let yourself digest what’s being said. Those early posts were incredibly powerful and just jammed packed with the very essence of what you really *need* to understand in order to move beyond this ASAP. And trust me on this one, you will see in those posts what you just did *not* want to accept back then.
And while you’re reading, make sure to re-read your own posts, too. It’s interesting what you’ll see in reading your very own words.
Also, you might want to consider reading posts from recovering addicts around the site. They’re the only ones who can tell you *exactly* what the deal is.
IForgot:
And that’s exactly right. Bringing things down to their basic component is important.
And a big you bettcha about being tested. Feels damned good, huh?
Just to add to your stuff about no contact… the only way to get beyond someone we really loved and cared about is to cut ties. If we remain connected to them in one way or another, we’ll never truly move on. There’s always that hope somewhere in us that things will change. And in the case of an addict…? Well, you could be waiting a lifetime.
See ya tomorrow for virtual java. Awesome! :bounce
I don’t think there’s even one thing I could say that hasn’t already been said 50 different ways. But of course, I’m sorry you’re back as well. Seems a pattern has emerged with his using, too.
The one thing I can suggest is now that you are seeing him for what he is with your *eyes*, you would do yourself a huge service by going back to the very beginning of this thread and re-read those initial posts. A little at a time, of course, to let yourself digest what’s being said. Those early posts were incredibly powerful and just jammed packed with the very essence of what you really *need* to understand in order to move beyond this ASAP. And trust me on this one, you will see in those posts what you just did *not* want to accept back then.
And while you’re reading, make sure to re-read your own posts, too. It’s interesting what you’ll see in reading your very own words.
Also, you might want to consider reading posts from recovering addicts around the site. They’re the only ones who can tell you *exactly* what the deal is.
IForgot:
And that’s exactly right. Bringing things down to their basic component is important.
And a big you bettcha about being tested. Feels damned good, huh?
Just to add to your stuff about no contact… the only way to get beyond someone we really loved and cared about is to cut ties. If we remain connected to them in one way or another, we’ll never truly move on. There’s always that hope somewhere in us that things will change. And in the case of an addict…? Well, you could be waiting a lifetime.
See ya tomorrow for virtual java. Awesome! :bounce
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 32
Good lord... we seem to be tag-teaming the poor girl
Just to add to your adding to my no contact thing... It's better to just cut ties, otherwise when you see their face and hear their voice it just reminds you that they lied and deceived you, ya know? And that WILL eventually eat away at you. If the beginning of the relationship was already based on a falsehood, then nothing will hold up. It's that whole "foundation" thing.
Believe it or not, it really is far easier to just cut ties and look ahead, and to keep looking forward no matter what. Far, FAR easier.
And yesssssss... java! Same bat time, same bat channel. :bounce
Just to add to your adding to my no contact thing... It's better to just cut ties, otherwise when you see their face and hear their voice it just reminds you that they lied and deceived you, ya know? And that WILL eventually eat away at you. If the beginning of the relationship was already based on a falsehood, then nothing will hold up. It's that whole "foundation" thing.
Believe it or not, it really is far easier to just cut ties and look ahead, and to keep looking forward no matter what. Far, FAR easier.
And yesssssss... java! Same bat time, same bat channel. :bounce
Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,691
Cher -
I'm glad that you came back and posted and let us know what is happening. I have thought about you a lot and hoped that things had worked out for you. I am sorry that things took the turn that they did. After years of being around addiction and my RAH's recovery I have learned several things. Since he has been in recovery I have seen clearly how much he loves his kids and his life. But - I also saw him in addiction and it wasn't that he loved crack more - it's that his brain was trapped in addiction and didn't give him a choice. I think that that is important to remember.....it doesn't give you a choice. It takes 9-18 months for brain healing to occur from the effects of crack/cravings to diminish (per PET scans)....even a subliminal image of a millisecond can trigger an overwhelming urge to use. There is no magic secret that can get someone to quit using. They quit when they know that they are at the end of the line - and even then, many still can't quit. Please know that he didn't choose to become an addict and the addiction has robbed him of the ability to choose anything else. It just is what it is. I believe it when I hear addicts says they want to quit - they just can't until they are "done".
Our relationships with addicts are completely similar to the way that addicts use. We know not to go back, we make all kinds of plans around that....but yet....it happens. We tell ourselves that this time it will be different - we'll find a better way to do it. Does that sound familiar to what you've heard from your ABF? Like them, to truly get away we have to change our "playgrounds and playmates". Otherwise, it is just too easy to be tempted to go back. I know that that is what happened to me.
Even when an addict stops picking up you still have addictive thinking and behavior to contend with.....living with a recovering addict has been an incredibly difficult journey for me. It's not like it turns into a pretty package with a pretty bow.
There is no judgement here at all - you'll do what you need to do on your journey through life. I know that I made the choices that I have and that I have appreciated being able to come to SR no matter what they have been. The welcome mat is always here no matter if you walk away from him today or return 70 times 7. You will always find someone that has returned 80 times 8.
Don't be a stranger - Donna
I'm glad that you came back and posted and let us know what is happening. I have thought about you a lot and hoped that things had worked out for you. I am sorry that things took the turn that they did. After years of being around addiction and my RAH's recovery I have learned several things. Since he has been in recovery I have seen clearly how much he loves his kids and his life. But - I also saw him in addiction and it wasn't that he loved crack more - it's that his brain was trapped in addiction and didn't give him a choice. I think that that is important to remember.....it doesn't give you a choice. It takes 9-18 months for brain healing to occur from the effects of crack/cravings to diminish (per PET scans)....even a subliminal image of a millisecond can trigger an overwhelming urge to use. There is no magic secret that can get someone to quit using. They quit when they know that they are at the end of the line - and even then, many still can't quit. Please know that he didn't choose to become an addict and the addiction has robbed him of the ability to choose anything else. It just is what it is. I believe it when I hear addicts says they want to quit - they just can't until they are "done".
Our relationships with addicts are completely similar to the way that addicts use. We know not to go back, we make all kinds of plans around that....but yet....it happens. We tell ourselves that this time it will be different - we'll find a better way to do it. Does that sound familiar to what you've heard from your ABF? Like them, to truly get away we have to change our "playgrounds and playmates". Otherwise, it is just too easy to be tempted to go back. I know that that is what happened to me.
Even when an addict stops picking up you still have addictive thinking and behavior to contend with.....living with a recovering addict has been an incredibly difficult journey for me. It's not like it turns into a pretty package with a pretty bow.
There is no judgement here at all - you'll do what you need to do on your journey through life. I know that I made the choices that I have and that I have appreciated being able to come to SR no matter what they have been. The welcome mat is always here no matter if you walk away from him today or return 70 times 7. You will always find someone that has returned 80 times 8.
Don't be a stranger - Donna
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 32
Hi Lightseeker –
Perhaps I misunderstand, and maybe you can clarify, but the following statements seem to be inconsistent:
You say:
"...it's that his brain was trapped in addiction and didn't give him a choice. I think that that is important to remember.....it doesn't give you a choice. It takes 9-18 months for brain healing to occur from the effects of crack/cravings to diminish..."
And:
"... Please know that he didn't choose to become an addict and the addiction has robbed him of the ability to choose anything else. ..."
If an addict doesn’t have a choice - if they are "trapped" in addiction as you say - then they are doomed to be an active addict forever, unless they are held against their will for X amount of time for the brain to heal.
So, I’m not sure what you’re saying exactly. Did I miss something?
Perhaps I misunderstand, and maybe you can clarify, but the following statements seem to be inconsistent:
You say:
"...it's that his brain was trapped in addiction and didn't give him a choice. I think that that is important to remember.....it doesn't give you a choice. It takes 9-18 months for brain healing to occur from the effects of crack/cravings to diminish..."
And:
"... Please know that he didn't choose to become an addict and the addiction has robbed him of the ability to choose anything else. ..."
If an addict doesn’t have a choice - if they are "trapped" in addiction as you say - then they are doomed to be an active addict forever, unless they are held against their will for X amount of time for the brain to heal.
So, I’m not sure what you’re saying exactly. Did I miss something?
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
It does sound confusing, but as a recovering crack addict I understand what Lightseeker is saying.
I abused a lot of things before crack, but I could easily put them down...didn't crave them, didn't worry about when I would get the next one, etc. With crack, I couldn't think of anything else BUT getting my next hit! I did make the choice to smoke crack, but I thought I'd be able to put it down easily, like I had everything else and I was very, very wrong.
The way I see what she is saying, is that although I chose to smoke crack, I didn't choose to let it totally take over my life. And quite honestly, until my consequences got pretty darn bad, I didn't have any serious thoughts about quitting.
Today I know that if I smoke crack, I will not stop until even worse consequences happen. So I choose to not smoke it and work on my recovery so it's not even an option.
Dont' know if that makes sense or not?
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
I abused a lot of things before crack, but I could easily put them down...didn't crave them, didn't worry about when I would get the next one, etc. With crack, I couldn't think of anything else BUT getting my next hit! I did make the choice to smoke crack, but I thought I'd be able to put it down easily, like I had everything else and I was very, very wrong.
The way I see what she is saying, is that although I chose to smoke crack, I didn't choose to let it totally take over my life. And quite honestly, until my consequences got pretty darn bad, I didn't have any serious thoughts about quitting.
Today I know that if I smoke crack, I will not stop until even worse consequences happen. So I choose to not smoke it and work on my recovery so it's not even an option.
Dont' know if that makes sense or not?
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 32
Anvil and Amy…
Oh, I hope I didn’t imply I think people wake up one day and say “ya know, I think I’m gonna be a crack addict, ruin the chances of a good future and basically live a tormented life. Yeah!”
And I certainly get that once that pipe’s blazin’, it’s chasin’ that dragon until well beyond when the cows have come home and have been ground up for the family picnic.
So, basically, you guys are saying that at some point in this addiction you almost don’t see that you have a choice. Then at some point you see the choice, but choose crack. And then you later saw that the choice was to not pick up.
Is that kinda what’s being said?
I may want a bit too much clarification here, but please understand, as I’m sure you guys do, that those on the flip side of the nightmare really need to understand the process. If the meaning gets muddled with too much creative or dramatic design, then a person can’t really make an informed decision.
Hmm… I hope THAT made sense
Oh, I hope I didn’t imply I think people wake up one day and say “ya know, I think I’m gonna be a crack addict, ruin the chances of a good future and basically live a tormented life. Yeah!”
And I certainly get that once that pipe’s blazin’, it’s chasin’ that dragon until well beyond when the cows have come home and have been ground up for the family picnic.
So, basically, you guys are saying that at some point in this addiction you almost don’t see that you have a choice. Then at some point you see the choice, but choose crack. And then you later saw that the choice was to not pick up.
Is that kinda what’s being said?
I may want a bit too much clarification here, but please understand, as I’m sure you guys do, that those on the flip side of the nightmare really need to understand the process. If the meaning gets muddled with too much creative or dramatic design, then a person can’t really make an informed decision.
Hmm… I hope THAT made sense
Just plainly tired
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: crossroads
Posts: 2,834
Iforgot, I dont think we could ever really understand the thought process of getting sucked intop addiction and then deciding to get out of it too. To me I think its something a person woudl have to go through personally to understand and I believe from what other addicts told me that they still dont understand it.
Jewelz
Jewelz
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 32
Jewelz-
Oh, sure it's more complicated than a couple of sentences. And everyone in recovery - and anyone who's active - has their own story. But to me, breaking it down a bit more can help. It gives just one more view into the whole picture.
Oh, sure it's more complicated than a couple of sentences. And everyone in recovery - and anyone who's active - has their own story. But to me, breaking it down a bit more can help. It gives just one more view into the whole picture.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 32
Anvil, I love your posts. Pointed. Doesn't get any better than that.
I was involved with someone who was - well, still is - addicted. And everything I went through watching it, I understand he went through even far more. I consider myself lucky that I didn't get into drugs. And it was luck.
And that's what I meant... that you don't SEE you have a choice when you're gripped with the compulsion, even though the choice is there. Just like people who are with an addict who don't SEE what the addict is ACTUALLY doing and instead follow their hearts.
On a personal note: could be a miracle an addict stays clean, but it's certainly a miracle you're working your ass off for.
I was involved with someone who was - well, still is - addicted. And everything I went through watching it, I understand he went through even far more. I consider myself lucky that I didn't get into drugs. And it was luck.
And that's what I meant... that you don't SEE you have a choice when you're gripped with the compulsion, even though the choice is there. Just like people who are with an addict who don't SEE what the addict is ACTUALLY doing and instead follow their hearts.
On a personal note: could be a miracle an addict stays clean, but it's certainly a miracle you're working your ass off for.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,335
it's that his brain was trapped in addiction and didn't give him a choice. I think that that is important to remember.....it doesn't give you a choice.
But there is a choice. There is a split second in time where we can choose to recognize the onset of the desire to use and employ our "recovery" tools to end the craving before it starts. Or, we can just choose to ignore the triggers and go on autopilot into relapse mode. That is why the choice to relapse is made long before the drugs are in our hands.
Once we actually know that we are thinking about using, it's pretty hard to stop. It's like a train wreck - you can see whats coming, but it's too late to stop, even when you hit the brakes, it's just too late to avoid the collision.
Now, when we are on a binge, or after we start using, there IS NO CHOICE. Crack is a compulsion. It's like an itch and you got to scratch it. At least for me. I HAD to keep using until all the money was gone or the dope ran out or I physically couldn't stay awake anymore. It didn't matter how bad I wanted to stop. My brain was on go. And I was out of control - on autopilot to do whatever it took to get the next hit.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 32
Ah, hello-kitty. Another pointed poster.
OMG… if this isn’t more true…?
My addict did do rehabs, and recovery houses, and day programs. He did meetings, worked with his sponsor and others in NA. He was involved in NA functions. He did drug counselors and therapists. All of this after his addiction began to spin out of control and parts of his life were seriously effected. The threat of losing even more scared him.
He did all of this while he still had a job, all of this he did for the first time during his addiction career and all of it with me.
By the time I had finally said enough is enough, this is exactly what I was thinking. He’s been down every road. He has been given every single tool known to mankind to help him in his recovery. Every tool and more than once and explained in as many different ways from as many different people.
For him, recovery is easy as long as the compulsion isn’t there. He did get through his cycles a few times, and I saw him struggling through those cycles. And when he’d make it to the other side, I thought that perhaps now he’s getting the idea behind the tools. But it never lasted more than a couple of cycles.
I couldn’t listen to the “poor me, poor me” crap after he used and after he completely threw out the tools that would have helped him get through the compulsion.
It’s one thing to stick by someone who’s really trying to do the right thing and who’s trying to find their way through the dark, it’s completely something else when they intentionally throw away the flashlight.
Originally Posted by hello-kitty 
To choose not to learn from our mistakes and our relapses.
But there is a choice. There is a split second in time where we can choose to recognize the onset of the desire to use and employ our "recovery" tools to end the craving before it starts. Or, we can just choose to ignore the triggers and go on autopilot into relapse mode. That is why the choice to relapse is made long before the drugs are in our hands.
But there is a choice. There is a split second in time where we can choose to recognize the onset of the desire to use and employ our "recovery" tools to end the craving before it starts. Or, we can just choose to ignore the triggers and go on autopilot into relapse mode. That is why the choice to relapse is made long before the drugs are in our hands.
My addict did do rehabs, and recovery houses, and day programs. He did meetings, worked with his sponsor and others in NA. He was involved in NA functions. He did drug counselors and therapists. All of this after his addiction began to spin out of control and parts of his life were seriously effected. The threat of losing even more scared him.
He did all of this while he still had a job, all of this he did for the first time during his addiction career and all of it with me.
By the time I had finally said enough is enough, this is exactly what I was thinking. He’s been down every road. He has been given every single tool known to mankind to help him in his recovery. Every tool and more than once and explained in as many different ways from as many different people.
For him, recovery is easy as long as the compulsion isn’t there. He did get through his cycles a few times, and I saw him struggling through those cycles. And when he’d make it to the other side, I thought that perhaps now he’s getting the idea behind the tools. But it never lasted more than a couple of cycles.
I couldn’t listen to the “poor me, poor me” crap after he used and after he completely threw out the tools that would have helped him get through the compulsion.
It’s one thing to stick by someone who’s really trying to do the right thing and who’s trying to find their way through the dark, it’s completely something else when they intentionally throw away the flashlight.
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