Not Sure What To Do
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
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This, again, is something to discuss with your lawyer. S/he should know the relevant standard for the protective order. I'd suggest that you just be honest that you are afraid, and why. If he goes another full year AFTER the divorce is final, without violating the order, then maybe you can relax a bit. After all, you're most likely to have anger right around the time the divorce is finalized. It's possible that if you put it in those terms the court will be more inclined to extend the order for one more year.
Of course, I think anyone who holds a gun to his head and uses that as a threat against someone else is NEVER safe to own/possess a gun. I'm just thinking that if you put it in terms of "let's see what happens during the year following the divorce" the court might be more inclined to continue it.
Talk it over with your lawyer, and maybe also a DV advocate.
Of course, I think anyone who holds a gun to his head and uses that as a threat against someone else is NEVER safe to own/possess a gun. I'm just thinking that if you put it in terms of "let's see what happens during the year following the divorce" the court might be more inclined to continue it.
Talk it over with your lawyer, and maybe also a DV advocate.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 299
Hi,
I'm glad I'm not in the marital home. My AH threatened to burn it down, so I wouldn't get any of it!
The reason I asked for an extension of the DV order, is because I am still fearful. I felt better this year knowing he had no guns.
My AH, was unwilling to negotiate or even be reasonable at mediation. He has decided he's not giving up the marital home.
I'm very worried, if his life changes, due to a court decision, it will be the trigger that sets him off! My AH will then have access to an arsenal of guns! And then let's put his alcohol abuse into the mix. It's scares me that he might come after me, blaming me. And I can't get the picture out of my head of him with a gun to his head with it cocked!!
Our divorce hearing is coming up in 2 weeks. All of this stuff could be a potential trigger. Then it could take 6 months to settle things if the house needs to sold. As a result my AH and my life will be still intertwined for another approx 6 months.
If things had been settled during the past year, and there had been no violations if the order, I would probably have let the order go, since my dealings with this man would have been finished, and time would have gone by, before the order expired.
Also there is no evidence that he has stopped drinking!
Alcohol abuse and guns can be a deadly combination!!
Thank you
Z
I'm glad I'm not in the marital home. My AH threatened to burn it down, so I wouldn't get any of it!
The reason I asked for an extension of the DV order, is because I am still fearful. I felt better this year knowing he had no guns.
My AH, was unwilling to negotiate or even be reasonable at mediation. He has decided he's not giving up the marital home.
I'm very worried, if his life changes, due to a court decision, it will be the trigger that sets him off! My AH will then have access to an arsenal of guns! And then let's put his alcohol abuse into the mix. It's scares me that he might come after me, blaming me. And I can't get the picture out of my head of him with a gun to his head with it cocked!!
Our divorce hearing is coming up in 2 weeks. All of this stuff could be a potential trigger. Then it could take 6 months to settle things if the house needs to sold. As a result my AH and my life will be still intertwined for another approx 6 months.
If things had been settled during the past year, and there had been no violations if the order, I would probably have let the order go, since my dealings with this man would have been finished, and time would have gone by, before the order expired.
Also there is no evidence that he has stopped drinking!
Alcohol abuse and guns can be a deadly combination!!
Thank you
Z
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
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Absolutely true.
I suggest that you practice saying EXACTLY what you said in the previous paragraph. Very articulate and powerful. You say it just like that, and I don't think you could say it any better.
I suggest that you practice saying EXACTLY what you said in the previous paragraph. Very articulate and powerful. You say it just like that, and I don't think you could say it any better.
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 299
Maybe a silly question? How does my AH lawyer prove that my AH can/ would act responsibly with his guns, since his alcohol abuse causes his behavior to be unpredictable and very voilatile. What kind of argument can she present.?
Z
Z
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
My guess is that she'll claim he's got some good reason for needing the guns, or talk about the Second Amendment. She'll just say that the fact that he's obeyed the order all this time proves that he's responsible. Chances are she'll claim any prior "volatility" or alcohol issues were due to the stress of the deteriorating marriage, and now that you're out of the picture, he's settled back into his normal, responsible self.
I don't know how your state law allocates the burden of proof in a situation like this--whether it's on him or on you. That's something to ask your lawyer.
I don't know how your state law allocates the burden of proof in a situation like this--whether it's on him or on you. That's something to ask your lawyer.
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 430
Originally Posted by Zircon 
Maybe a silly question? How does my AH lawyer prove that my AH can/ would act responsibly with his guns, since his alcohol abuse causes his behavior to be unpredictable and very voilatile. What kind of argument can she present.?
Z
Z
My argument will be to err on the side of caution when people's wellbeing is at stake and the costs to stbxah are minimal.
In a recent dissenting opinion on the Supreme Court decision to strike down parts of the Voting Rights act, justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said gutting those provisions was like throwing away your umbrella because it's not raining.
In both of our situations, taking away guns/requiring sobriety monitoring is a way of protecting people who might otherwise be harmed by the unpredictable behavior of an alcoholic.
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Originally Posted by sauerkraut
In a recent dissenting opinion on the Supreme Court decision to strike down parts of the Voting Rights act, justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said gutting those provisions was like throwing away your umbrella because it's not raining.
My hero.
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 994
I don't understand why you can't just dispose of the guns? You could say you got rid of them cos of his past exploits with them and you are scared he might get his hands on them again. Am not sure how it works cos I am in the UK but when my exah brother ( also an active alcoholic) had firearms in the house the police took them away.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 299
Hi,
The police took them away a year ago. They're being stored at the police station. After a year my AH can motion the court to get them back. I'm just very concerned because my divorce isn't settled, my AH is the one holding it up because he wants the marital home and not give me any equity from it. Also he is still drinking!!
I'm afraid, if the court gives him his guns back, if in 2 weeks the court decides the house needs to be sold, this might be a huge trigger for my AH. That in combination with alcohol abuse and an arsenal of guns is not a safe combination.
Again that is the major reason I asked for an extension of my DV order. I feel our lives are still so I intertwined,and probably will be for another at least 6months. With my AH drinking, weapons, and unpredictable behavior, I fear for my safety!
Z
The police took them away a year ago. They're being stored at the police station. After a year my AH can motion the court to get them back. I'm just very concerned because my divorce isn't settled, my AH is the one holding it up because he wants the marital home and not give me any equity from it. Also he is still drinking!!
I'm afraid, if the court gives him his guns back, if in 2 weeks the court decides the house needs to be sold, this might be a huge trigger for my AH. That in combination with alcohol abuse and an arsenal of guns is not a safe combination.
Again that is the major reason I asked for an extension of my DV order. I feel our lives are still so I intertwined,and probably will be for another at least 6months. With my AH drinking, weapons, and unpredictable behavior, I fear for my safety!
Z
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
Z...I second what Lexie said. Say just what you said in your post to the courts.
Anything can at any time set him off. It's like a sleeping beast. Are you armed yourself? I would suggest to make sure (if you have not already) to have an alarm on your home and car, and to arm yourself. I would also suggest a good self defense course. Anything that empowers you to feel you can take care of yourself.
I understand fearing your safety, and agree with you. You are only in control of yourself, so go present in the most calm and articulate way you can, pray, and protect yourself!
Tight hugs friend!
Anything can at any time set him off. It's like a sleeping beast. Are you armed yourself? I would suggest to make sure (if you have not already) to have an alarm on your home and car, and to arm yourself. I would also suggest a good self defense course. Anything that empowers you to feel you can take care of yourself.
I understand fearing your safety, and agree with you. You are only in control of yourself, so go present in the most calm and articulate way you can, pray, and protect yourself!
Tight hugs friend!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 299
Hi,
Just me. Something about filing for the extension of the DV order, and having the judge extended it for another year. It made me feel like I was taking really good care of me! Almost like I've found a new respect for myself.
I know my AH can object to the order and could win, and get his guns back. Hope not, but whatever happens it won't
take away the feeling I have now.
When I requested my first DV order, I didn't have this feeling at all. I felt I wasn't in control of my life, and I was doing things out of desparation, fear, and a lot of other emotions. It didn't feel at all like I was taking care of me.
I do feel I've made some progress this past year, but have a long way to go.
Thank you all for listening to me!
Z
Just me. Something about filing for the extension of the DV order, and having the judge extended it for another year. It made me feel like I was taking really good care of me! Almost like I've found a new respect for myself.
I know my AH can object to the order and could win, and get his guns back. Hope not, but whatever happens it won't
take away the feeling I have now.
When I requested my first DV order, I didn't have this feeling at all. I felt I wasn't in control of my life, and I was doing things out of desparation, fear, and a lot of other emotions. It didn't feel at all like I was taking care of me.
I do feel I've made some progress this past year, but have a long way to go.
Thank you all for listening to me!
Z
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
So you had the hearing and the judge did extend it for a year? I'm confused, maybe. I thought this was a motion that was going to be heard in the near future--your request to extend the order and his request to dismiss the order so he could get his guns back.
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 299
Hi Lexie,
My AH filed a motion to have his guns returned since the DV order was expiring on March 1st.
I filed for an extension of the DV order. The judge read my petition and extended it for another year.
My AH has the right to within 10 days file an objection with the court, re the extension of the DV order.
I'm sure he'll do that! No doubt in my mind.
The court told me if he did do this. They'll use the time already allotted to hear his objection to the DV order being extended.
So I have to stay focused, and I think present my case why I think I need this DV order to remain in effect.
That's why I was asking those questions last night, trying to anticipate what his lawyer might use.
Last year, at my first DV hearing, his lawyer degraded me, ripped me to shreds, and used my medical condition! Not pleasant!
I think I'm prepared this time. I'm in a better place. I think I feel I deserve certain things, where last year I felt I was to blame for everything, even though I felt unsafe, and terrorized by my AH.
Does that make any sense???
Z
My AH filed a motion to have his guns returned since the DV order was expiring on March 1st.
I filed for an extension of the DV order. The judge read my petition and extended it for another year.
My AH has the right to within 10 days file an objection with the court, re the extension of the DV order.
I'm sure he'll do that! No doubt in my mind.
The court told me if he did do this. They'll use the time already allotted to hear his objection to the DV order being extended.
So I have to stay focused, and I think present my case why I think I need this DV order to remain in effect.
That's why I was asking those questions last night, trying to anticipate what his lawyer might use.
Last year, at my first DV hearing, his lawyer degraded me, ripped me to shreds, and used my medical condition! Not pleasant!
I think I'm prepared this time. I'm in a better place. I think I feel I deserve certain things, where last year I felt I was to blame for everything, even though I felt unsafe, and terrorized by my AH.
Does that make any sense???
Z
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
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OK, I get it now. LOL, man, you do things weird in your state.
Laws is funny that way.
I think you will do just fine--seriously. I think judges don't particularly like going back and changing a decision they've already made. And yes, you are a MUCH more confident and self-possessed woman than you were then. (Even though you still have mini-meltdowns when something comes your way, you shake them off MUCH, MUCH faster than you used to.) (And that's not a criticism--I freak out about truly trivial things sometimes until I've had a chance to think it through.)
Laws is funny that way.
I think you will do just fine--seriously. I think judges don't particularly like going back and changing a decision they've already made. And yes, you are a MUCH more confident and self-possessed woman than you were then. (Even though you still have mini-meltdowns when something comes your way, you shake them off MUCH, MUCH faster than you used to.) (And that's not a criticism--I freak out about truly trivial things sometimes until I've had a chance to think it through.)
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Posts: 299
Hi,
I'm trying to be better about my meltdowns!! LOL!! I try to tell myself they're hurting no one else but me!! That usually does it!! LOL!!
From all the reading I've done regarding the laws, I'm finding it's very different from state to state.
Before I went to the court house to file my extension, I had read lots of information about how it was done. When I got there, the court did it totally different!! Go figure! LOL!!
I'm not sure what will happen with the DV order when my AH fights it. But, I know that I feel very confident in my position. I don't feel in asking for something I don't deserve.
When I was writing my posts, I wanted input, for other to be the judge and tell me if what I was saying was to the point, as non judgmental as it could be, but expressed my concern for my safety even though he hadn't violated the order.
I'm sure as time gets closer, I'll be posting more of my thoughts.
My whole life will be changing in roughly 2 weeks! Whatever the outcome, I will be in a much better place.!! Minus an AH, and have gained some more knowledge about who I am and want to be!!
Z
I'm trying to be better about my meltdowns!! LOL!! I try to tell myself they're hurting no one else but me!! That usually does it!! LOL!!
From all the reading I've done regarding the laws, I'm finding it's very different from state to state.
Before I went to the court house to file my extension, I had read lots of information about how it was done. When I got there, the court did it totally different!! Go figure! LOL!!
I'm not sure what will happen with the DV order when my AH fights it. But, I know that I feel very confident in my position. I don't feel in asking for something I don't deserve.
When I was writing my posts, I wanted input, for other to be the judge and tell me if what I was saying was to the point, as non judgmental as it could be, but expressed my concern for my safety even though he hadn't violated the order.
I'm sure as time gets closer, I'll be posting more of my thoughts.
My whole life will be changing in roughly 2 weeks! Whatever the outcome, I will be in a much better place.!! Minus an AH, and have gained some more knowledge about who I am and want to be!!
Z
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
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I think you've made tremendous progress.
And I think you expressed your concerns very well in your post. If you're afraid you will be nervous and forget, you might bring with you an index card or piece of paper, just with a word or two to remind you of each of the things you want to mention. Discuss it with your lawyer (who is your best source for info about how something will "come off" to your judge--you don't want to appear "scripted"--and about what's allowed in court). But I think just a key word or two to remind you of each of the points might not be a bad idea. You might never have to look at it, but if you get super-nervous and go blank, it would jog your memory.
And I think you expressed your concerns very well in your post. If you're afraid you will be nervous and forget, you might bring with you an index card or piece of paper, just with a word or two to remind you of each of the things you want to mention. Discuss it with your lawyer (who is your best source for info about how something will "come off" to your judge--you don't want to appear "scripted"--and about what's allowed in court). But I think just a key word or two to remind you of each of the points might not be a bad idea. You might never have to look at it, but if you get super-nervous and go blank, it would jog your memory.
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Hi,
I'll do that. I'm not the best public speaker, even though I done a lot of it!! LOL!! The court room can also be very intimidating! Knowing when to sit and stand! Not speaking without asking the judge. I frankly don't know how lawyers do it!!
Last DV hearing, I was on my own. My lawyer didn't attend! My AH lawyer ripped me to ribbons. But when it was all said and done, the order was put in effect for a year!
Just a silly question for you Lexie being a lawyer. How can a lawyer in good conscienceness, knowing that her client is an alcoholic, and has police reports that show he's abusive and an alcoholic, try to discredit the other party in such a cruel way.
It can't be all about the money. What about the morality of the situation. My AH lawyer is female and passed the bar in 2014.
It's like she's passing judgement on me, being accusatory. Is that necessary?
My thoughts are she could still represent him, without all the drama directed at me.
Z
I'll do that. I'm not the best public speaker, even though I done a lot of it!! LOL!! The court room can also be very intimidating! Knowing when to sit and stand! Not speaking without asking the judge. I frankly don't know how lawyers do it!!
Last DV hearing, I was on my own. My lawyer didn't attend! My AH lawyer ripped me to ribbons. But when it was all said and done, the order was put in effect for a year!
Just a silly question for you Lexie being a lawyer. How can a lawyer in good conscienceness, knowing that her client is an alcoholic, and has police reports that show he's abusive and an alcoholic, try to discredit the other party in such a cruel way.
It can't be all about the money. What about the morality of the situation. My AH lawyer is female and passed the bar in 2014.
It's like she's passing judgement on me, being accusatory. Is that necessary?
My thoughts are she could still represent him, without all the drama directed at me.
Z
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Well, I wasn't there, but I can understand how it felt accusatory, even if it was proper questioning.
Our legal system is designed to be adversarial. There is much more reliance on alternative dispute resolution (e.g., mediation) than there was a few years ago. But even with that, you can only do mediation successfully when both parties are reasonable.
So lawyers are paid to represent their client's interests. There are limits, spelled out in the Rules of Professional Responsibility, to what a lawyer can do on his/her client's behalf.
In a criminal case, the State has the burden of proving the defendant's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. A good, ethical defense lawyer will "put the State to its proofs"--in other words, insist that despite all ethical efforts to call the defendant's guilt into question, the State prove its case. If it were your child charged with a crime, even if s/he committed it, you would want him/her to have a fair trial, right?
Lawyers usually don't know what the truth really is. Their clients tell them one thing, the other side tells them something else, and the way our system is set up, the idea is that the two sides present their cases, trying to undermine the other, and ultimately the truth is supposed to prevail. We all know that doesn't always happen. There are unjust results. But nobody has really come up with a better way to do it--a better system of justice, that will be "right" a greater percentage of the time. Your lawyer is fighting for you. His lawyer is fighting for him. Try not to take it personally--if his lawyer is truly out of line (and that isn't necessarily judged by how it FEELS to you--you will feel attacked no matter what), then your lawyer can object and the judge will rule on it.
I know it's very hard on the litigants, but it's sort of an unfortunate byproduct of the system.
Our legal system is designed to be adversarial. There is much more reliance on alternative dispute resolution (e.g., mediation) than there was a few years ago. But even with that, you can only do mediation successfully when both parties are reasonable.
So lawyers are paid to represent their client's interests. There are limits, spelled out in the Rules of Professional Responsibility, to what a lawyer can do on his/her client's behalf.
In a criminal case, the State has the burden of proving the defendant's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. A good, ethical defense lawyer will "put the State to its proofs"--in other words, insist that despite all ethical efforts to call the defendant's guilt into question, the State prove its case. If it were your child charged with a crime, even if s/he committed it, you would want him/her to have a fair trial, right?
Lawyers usually don't know what the truth really is. Their clients tell them one thing, the other side tells them something else, and the way our system is set up, the idea is that the two sides present their cases, trying to undermine the other, and ultimately the truth is supposed to prevail. We all know that doesn't always happen. There are unjust results. But nobody has really come up with a better way to do it--a better system of justice, that will be "right" a greater percentage of the time. Your lawyer is fighting for you. His lawyer is fighting for him. Try not to take it personally--if his lawyer is truly out of line (and that isn't necessarily judged by how it FEELS to you--you will feel attacked no matter what), then your lawyer can object and the judge will rule on it.
I know it's very hard on the litigants, but it's sort of an unfortunate byproduct of the system.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
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Posts: 16,633
Incidentally, Z, if his lawyer really WAS that over-the-top at your last hearing, where you were unrepresented, that may actually have weighed in your favor. Judges do their best to be objective, but they are human. If the judge felt the defense attorney was "beating you up," it could possibly have made the judge more sympathetic toward you. At the very least, the judge might have given you more leeway than would have been the case if you'd had a lawyer with you to protect your interests.
You'll never know for sure, and I certainly never recommend going into court alone if you can help it--particularly if the other side is represented. But I'm just saying, it didn't necessarily hurt your case.
You'll never know for sure, and I certainly never recommend going into court alone if you can help it--particularly if the other side is represented. But I'm just saying, it didn't necessarily hurt your case.
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