rescuer

Hi,

Have been lurking on these forums for a while, this is my first post.

I’ve been married for three years and my wife is an alcoholic. We don’t have kids. She has had a hard life in some ways and has severe depression and anxiety issues. She is truly one of the sweetest and most loving and selfless people I know, but at the same time the alcoholic part of her has been lying, selfish, manipulative for a lot of our married life. She’s behaved terribly, put herself in dangerous situations, alienated a lot of her own family, and the drinking was only getting worse and worse. It’s been really, really traumatic for me and tough on my family, though they’ve been incredibly supportive.

But there was a real change a couple of months ago. She “woke up” and stopped being in denial. She stopped saying she could drink in moderation and accepted that she had to quit completely. She stopped blaming the whole world for her drinking. She is overwhelmed with guilt about how much she had hurt me and our marriage. She began posting on SR and went back to a doctor/therapist specialised in addiction issues (I had pressured her to go to him earlier and she had resented both him and me, but this time she went back of her own volition. She had another psychiatrist and therapist earlier but they weren’t really helping with the addiction).

But she’s only managed to get sober for a few weeks at a time and has already had several “relapses”, of which the latest was last night, a very bad one – she was out drinking, got into an argument with the bar people, got completely out of hand, police got involved. She is mortified at her behaviour and says she will never touch alcohol again – I really want to believe it but of course I know I shouldn’t get my hopes up too much. The gap between relapses is not increasing; in fact the latest slip came after only 6 days sober. She doesn’t seem to stick to a plan, not going to the doctor regularly enough etc, (but she’s not back in denial, or at least doesn’t appear to be – feels miserable after each slip, says she still wants to quit completely.) There seems to be a new pattern emerging, not as bad as the old one of daily drinking and denial, but still a pattern. In fact she doesn’t drink at home or around me anymore and seems to wait till she “escapes” and has to go to town (a bit far away) for some other genuine reason. It’s my sister who has had to deal with her drunk more than I have in the past two months! And I’ve noticed she stops posting here the day before a relapse, so in some way her AV is preparing her for it.

So I’m not sure of what to do and how long I should put up with this and how I should be feeling. I’ve read so many stories here of people who lived with an alcoholic spouse for decades before leaving – I don’t want to do that. At the same time, I do love her and can’t give up on her yet. I see how much she struggles and suffers from her addiction and depression and guilt and it breaks my heart. When she stopped drinking for almost a month things felt better, we were happy. She is completely in love with me and dependent on me emotionally, financially, everything; she doesn’t have a real job and as I said her family isn’t that keen on her anymore, and they have their own terrible messed up issues. I’m really her only chance at recovery and at happiness, and my leaving would destroy her. I’m not sure I could live with that guilt. But at the same time I wonder if losing me would be the real “rock bottom” she needs to hit before she might get sober.

I know there is no fixed answer to the question of when it’s time to leave, and I know I can’t really make her get sober and that she has to do it on her own. I guess I’m only posting to get this off my chest as I’m feeling really miserable right now after last night’s episode, and am looking for advice on how I should be thinking about the whole situation. And I would really love to hear some reassurance that the seeming change in her two months ago is a good sign and not just an illusion!

Thanks for listening. I did not realise how long this post was going to get.

LynCM

Rescuer,

I'm pretty new here, but I've been dealing with my (now in recovery) alcoholic husband for the last 4 years. It's been a battle, and I can relate to a great multitude of what you've shared. A few things I'll share with you...

In my mind, I always separated the two 'personas.' There was "Drunk Tom" (Not his real name, obviously) and "Sober Tom." Sober Tom was the model husband, caring, loving, a great father to our DD. Drunk Tom was easily angered, absent, uncaring, and mean. I love Sober Tom. Drunk Tom was an invader in my household, who was cheating on me with Alcohol.

My husband is 60 days in recovery now, and though it's been tumultuous and a complete shock in terms of adjusting, I seemed to notice this 'evolution,' if you will, of his journey toward recovery. There were several times, just as your wife had done, where they, of their own volition decide to sober up. RAH's journey started out with
1. I don't have a problem with alcohol.
2. I might drink too much, but I'm still a good father and get to work.
3. I have a problem with alcohol, but I can see a future down the road where I can "drink safely."
4. I have a problem with alcohol, I cannot manage it, and I can't ever drink again.

Though this is just what I've observed, it might be worth it to reflect to see where your wife is in the spectrum of the evolution to REALLY being READY for sobriety/recovery.

It's tough to love an alcoholic, and I'm like you, I wasn't ready to give up. I know she's very dependent on you, but keep an eye out for your own behaviors (enabling vs. supporting). I kicked my husband out of the house one weekend (holding true to your threats), and I felt overwhelming guilt (what if he's drunk in a parking lot and the cops get him? where is he sleeping? etc) at that. But when he came home after the set amount of time, he had felt it as a 'rock bottom' of sorts (this was about stage 3 of what i described above, he actually relapsed one more time and was then finally at stage 4).

You are absolutely right that it needs to be her choice, and the fact that she was making some of these realizations of her own volition likely means she's slowly evolving into this ready stage, but it'll be in her own time. Welcome and great job sharing... keep it up!

Also, NEVER apologize for your post! This is YOURS and you have your own recovering to do, too! Don't shortchange yourself!

dandylion

Dear rescuer.....I don't see anything in your post about a program of any sort...like AA/sponsor/meetings...etc. You said that she went to a counselor that specializes in addictions....and, I can't believe that the necessity of working a program was not mentioned to her.

What really jumped out at me is that---she is dependent on you "emotionally, financially, everything". That she doesn't have a "real job"....and, that you feel that you are "her only chance at recovery and happiness". And, that your leaving would "destroy her".
Lol...and your forum name is "Rescuer"......hmmn.....
One important concept that is explained in the book "Co-dependent No More"
(which is a sort of "bible' around here, and, I suggest that y ou read) is that the rescuer (when none is needed), always becomes the victim, before it is over....
Believe it or not....people always become resentful of those that they inappropriately depend on. Who knew?!

Gently, I suggest to you that you seek your own counselor who specializes in addictions and tell him/her everything that you just shared with us. It will be sooo helpful for you to know what the counselor knows about addiction...and they can really explain how you are a partner in the "dance"......and help guide you...

You can never predict what somebody's "rock bottom" will be. In AA, they say that every time you think t her is a bottom...there is another trap door...some people get off the ride, early on...and, some never do....

I have heard many alcoholics say that the guilt and shame, over their drinking behavior, does feel overwhelming when they face it, sober....
The group acceptance and working the steps of AA is one way to to help with that...

It would be a good first step for you to step way, way, back...and learn how to detach from her alcoholism...and determine what, of your own boundaries, that you need to establish. In other words...get out of her way, and start thinking in terms of what is best for your own welfare.....

You do need to get help with this, I think, because this is just too difficult to walk alone. And, use this forum..reading the thousands of real life stories, and, especially the stickies...those articles just above the threads on the front page...
Check out the "Classic Reading" first....it is a boot camp of education on alcoholism and co-dependency.
Knowledge is power.

I hope that you hang around, and keep learning....

By the way----WELCOME!

rescuer

Thanks for the support and the welcome.

I have read quite a bit and I do try to detach….but it’s hard! Last night for instance once I knew she was out drinking I switched off my phone so that I wouldn’t have to deal with her drunk calling or, worse – and this is what actually happened – calls from others including police telling me she was drunk and out of control. I’ve given up trying to rescue her in those situations. The name “rescuer” is partly a joke, as I know one shouldn’t try to rescue the alcoholic! I actually get much less traumatised by her drinking than I did a few months ago. I have my own work and other interests and I’m determined to not let her drinking ruin my life, even though it sometimes does feel like my life is ruined. I do think I can handle myself (maybe until I realise I can't lol).

But yes, I know my thinking she is dependent on me isn’t healthy for her or for me. I’m finding it hard to detach completely. I can more or less successfully fight the temptation to rescue her from any particular situation, but I think part of me still wants to rescue her overall. How can it not? I've stopped spending energy in nagging, scolding, fighting - or at least greatly reduced spending energy - but I certainly need to think more about whether I’m enabling in other ways. I will read more threads and Codependent No More.

As for programs, she’s gone to a couple of AA meetings but there aren’t any close to where we live, and she doesn't feel fully comfortable with the spiritual/religious aspect. She's read the Big Book and Rational Recovery. She then tried to make her own plan of posting on SR and meditation exercises her old therapist had taught her. She’s now agreed to go back to the de-addiction doctor who also has a rehab clinic. I’ve met him and I trust he knows what he’s doing. He did recommend some AA meetings and the Big Book as well as some other information resources. She says that this time she will keep going regularly and listen to everything he says and surrender to it (and not pick and choose the bits of advice that she feels comfortable with.) Again, I believe she is sincere about this, but I don’t know whether it will actually happen.

The inability to predict and the uncertainty is hard. I get that as part of detaching I should stop trying to predict, but that is so hard!

Thanks again for the replies.

Forward12

Welcome to the forum. It sounds like she's pretty out of control with her drinking, and is only leaving a few crumbs here and there to keep leading you along.
The only way for an alcoholic to stop drinking, is if they truly want to do so. It sounds like your wife has no intentions to quit, and is just giving half hearted attempts to lead you along so you continue your enabling.

dandylion

rescuer.....I think that a good article for you to read would be the one called: "10 Ways To Know If Your Addict or Alcoholic Is Full Of Crap"....It is a pretty good yard stick for knowing how ready one is serious about wanting recovery....
You will find it in the "Classic Reading" article, in the stickies...

Detaching is a tool to give you some mental "space" to attend to your own thoughts and introspection without using up all your energy on the alcoholic...
But, it is more for interim relief, for you, than a cure all for either of you.

Just curious..how far is "too far"? I once drove to school...one and one half hours to school...each way...for two years, every day, with three kids as a single parent. But, I wanted and needed to do it ...really bad!!
Motivation and need are powerful factors in determining what a person is willing to do.
Not having any kids and a regular job does make it a bit easier than it normally would be....

It is concerning that you sometimes feel like your life is "ruined".....
I think that when a person gets to the point of feeling like this...that it is time for some real serious consideration.....

honeypig

Hi, rescuer, and welcome to SR. You've gotten some good replies here already, but I just wanted to comment on the quote above.

Unfortunately, all the "sincerity" in the world is not worth doodly unless and until it's matched by actions. There is a current thread here about just how much work is involved in real recovery/sobriety; it might give you some insight into what to expect and help you judge how serious she actually is about recovery: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-recovery.html

I'd urge you to read around the board as much as you can, and make sure not to miss the stickies at the top of the page. To a great extent, we are all on the same road, and in my opinion, there is no substitute for the inspiration and education we can find in the experiences of others who've gone before us and those who are walking alongside us. It seems to me that those who benefit the most here are those who are most active, reading and posting on other threads in addition to their own.

You may also want to check into Alanon for yourself. For me, Alanon and SR made a strong combo, and there were certainly times I needed every shred of strength I could muster. Things are much calmer now, but those 2 resources continue to help me learn and grow, and I hope that never stops!

Looking forward to hearing more from you in the days to come.

honeypig

rescuer, I just found another article that might be helpful for you too. Here it is:

https://www.hazelden.org/web/public/..._decision.page

maia1234

R,
Welcome and glad you found us. You are one of us, a typical codie. We "enable" are addicts so they can drink. This is nothing we set out to do, but we are groomed by them. So how do we stop, this is the million dollar question.

Our addicts know that we love them. They have such guilt over the stuff they do, but they always know that we are there for them, until we are not. This is what we need to do for ourselves. Like people said above seek out an addiction therapist, hit an alanon or open aa meeting. Education is power. Once you read and hear about all the other addicts out there you will realize that your aw is not special snowflake. She is pulling the same crxp as all the addicts do, and you are being manipulated. Poor wife.

Once we learn, just like turning off your phone, not to engage, things change. I would highly recommend your sister not to enable her also. You arent doing it so she found someone else to help her. I would stop listening to her sob stories. You are not an alcoholic and "cant" understand addiction. Don't give her a platform to defend her actions or behavior, she will always have a reason or an excuse of why she did something.

The ball is in your court. Seek help for you and take back your life. Maybe if you try something different she will realize that this time she has gone to far and you are not having it anymore. Keep posting and asking questions. She is going to see you changing and want to know what's up. Just keep moving forward, hopefully it's with her and not alone. (I wasted 34 years of my life with my addict, waiting for him to get sober, it didn't happen for me, are you willing to do that?)

Hugs my friend, nothing changes if nothing changes!!

SmallButMighty

You've received some good advice here so I wont repeat it all, but do know I agree with what the others have said.

I have a bit of a "concern" about something you mentioned. You said you have realized she has a pattern of not posting here the day before she goes on a bender. Is this to mean you are following her every post she writes here on SR ? That seems like a breach of privacy to me, UNLESS she knows you are reading her posts and wants you to be following her, which in it's self is a whole other problem. I totally understand that you want to know what's going on with her so that you can help her, but that, my friend, is extremely co-dependent thinking and does not do either of you any good. IF she wants you to be reading what she's writing, then it is possible she's using her SR posts as a means of manipulation.

Like the others said, you can't fix or rescue her... her recovery is her business. Please, take care of you. Being codependent is exhausting, disheartening, heartbreaking and crazymaking. I'm speaking from a place of experience. I drove myself insane trying to "help" my AXH get sober. None of my snooping or tears or threats or dozens of other things I tried ever rescued him from his alcoholism. He wouldn't get himself healthy so I had to shift my focus on to getting me healthy. It was a very worthy shift, and I was much more receptive to the growth than he was. In my case it meant walking a away from a 26yr long relationship. Only you can decide how much time you want to invest in a relationship with an active addict.

Wishing you clarity as you try to untangle the mess alcoholism has brought into your life.

*hugs*

dandylion

^^^^^^^this.

rescuer

Thank you so much to everybody for your support and advice. I'm reading Codependent No More right now.

I'm proud that I've broken a few codependent patterns and at least some of the burden has lifted off my shoulders in the last few months. But there is so much more I need to work on. Yes, I snooped on her SR posts. I realise that is twisted and unhealthy on more than one level. She has no idea I did it. Even as I type this I realise it's going to be very difficult for me to just stop doing it. It's as if my need to check up on her is as uncontrollable as her need to drink.

Phew. Deep breath. Some tears.

This is so hard!

I can't imagine going through this for 20+ years.

honeypig

Yes, that's one of the things you'll hear around here all. the. time. The A is addicted to alcohol, and the codie is addicted to the A.

I think it's a good sign that you can see and admit this so soon.

By coming here and digging right in, starting the hard work on yourself, you are saving yourself from going thru this for 20+ years. Your pain and struggle now will set you free. Your eyes are opening.

Hugs, rescuer--it's tough, all right, but you've started and you have the strength to keep on going.

SmallButMighty

Big Hugs Rescuer!

We know how hard this all is. And so very painful.

Staying hurts, leaving hurts, the realizations hurt.... it just all sucks so much. We have all been through it to some extent or another. It's sad that the group of us exists but it is also such a relief to have each other. I'm glad you found us.

Hang in there, it sounds like you are making leaps and bounds in your own recovery. Stay the course. Keep reading, keep researching, keep reaching out here. I think you are learning that you now need to rescue yourself, and that is a very good, very empowering thing.

*edit to add* There is an ignore feature on these forums, maybe if you "ignore" your wife's username it will be easier not to snoop.. at least it would be one more check you'd have to go through to do so and may give you the pause you need not to go through with the snoop. Just a thought.

LexieCat

The other thing you can do is to fess up--you could tell her that you've been so worried and enmeshed with her that you've read some of her posts. Tell her you don't want to keep doing that, and that if she contacts the moderators, they can change her username.

Snooping is always a bad idea. I know, I've done it. Nothing good comes of it.

teatreeoil007

I don't judge others for 'depending' on someone else to provide for them or take care of them. But that dynamic can be a set up for some unhealthy enmeshment and co-dependency issues. It can also be an unhealthy trap of sorts. It can also create resentment...and you may feel yourself going: "After all I do for her and provide for her and everything, this is how she treats me." You may find yourself losing respect for her even though you love her. You may start to question all of her motives...such as: Maybe she only stays with me because I provide for her and she depends on me.

So you start to question if she really loves you. And that can lead to further unhealthy dynamics in a relationship. If you are insecure with one anothers' love, that lead to some unhealthy behaviors and feelings. We all have in our make-up the type of love we wish to experience. When our experience doesn't match up to what we are really experiencing it can literally makes us question the very existence of the relationship and perhaps wondering if it is worth sticking with. You may resent her for depending on you so much, but conversely and ironically she can resent you for that very same thing. Once resentment gets into a relationship it can be very destructive a huge deterrent to its happiness. Just my two cents.

sauerkraut

Hi rescuer,

What comes through in your posting is exactly what you state:
"Phew. Deep breath. Some tears.

This is so hard!

I can't imagine going through this for 20+ years. "

Yes, your life sounds very very hard. It doesn't have to be that way. Many of us were in your boat and found our way to shore. It's not easy, but once you realize you're not helping her even though it may feel that way, then you can start thinking about and creating the life you want.

rescuer

Thank you all for the kind words and the support.

She was sober yesterday and we spoke a lot, about how terrified she is in her addiction, about codependency. We cried and laughed and cried. Where does the healthy loving and sharing end and the codependency begin?

She's on her way to the doctor right now.

I do understand that talk is meaningless unless there is actual change. I also don't want to live like this much longer, and yes I am beginning to understand that I'm not helping her. I'm getting the clarity, but getting the courage is another challenge. The fact that the love is still there will make leaving even harder. There won't be too many practical difficulties (for me) but tons of heartbreak and guilt.

Thanks again to everybody. I will post updates.

hopeful4

Hello and welcome. I am sorry for what brings you here, but glad you are here.

I am going to point out that a few days here, a few weeks there, is nothing. That's not a relapse friend, she is an active alcoholic. I am of the belief that some people don't have a "bottom." Addiction ebbs and flows, but it's there. Only she can decide if she is going to actively work recovery every single day for the rest of her life. It's a huge commitment.

Look at her actions, ignore her words. Work on YOU and making sure you keep some peace in your own life.

rescuer

Thank you.

Well, the update is coming a little sooner than expected, to say the least!

In my last post this morning I had said she was on the way to the de-addiction counsellor/doctor. Well, after meeting the doctor she went out and drank. She told me herself and certainly sounded drunk on the phone, but apparently she later met up with a friend and sobered up. She had a minor accident in the subway (by all accounts this was not alcohol-related) and after a trip to hospital for scans is now staying at her mothers'. We just had a couple of conversations on the phone and she sounded sober (as you can imagine, I have a very heightened alcohol-sensitivity to her voice!). I was going to save the conversation for tomorrow but she was sober enough for it now.

I told her I didn't want her to come home. I forgot to mention this in my earlier posts, but once last year I had said I wanted to "take a break" and she had left for a week or so. This time I told her that I was not asking for a divorce yet but wanted a proper separation and that it was best for both of us if we didn't live together anymore. She's supposed to come and pack some stuff tomorrow.

I told her I hoped she would go to rehab etc and that if she did I would give her whatever practical help I could; but whatever she chose to do, our current life together could not continue.

So heartbreaking. She didn't argue or plead, just said she understood and cried quietly. She said she didn't blame me, she said sorry, I said sorry. I've been crying all day myself.

I know this is not the end of anything. I'm not giving up on her yet. We're still married, for now. But at least its a change and a good step. (Right???) I'm determined to not waver when I see her. And I'm sure if she is sober she won't fight me on this. I just hope she's not drunk and making a scene

I'm a college professor and tomorrow morning I will have to make sure a room full of undergrads don't see me crying between lectures!!