SoaringSpirits

When I was in college, my friend and roommate went from fresh-faced farm girl to descending into breathtaking alcoholism and drug addiction. She stole from me and was horrible. I wound up staging a sort of intervention and her parents came and took her away. I never heard from her again, and through friends heard that she failed rehab and wound up on the streets.

Fast forward about 10 years. I get a phone call out of the blue from roommate, no idea how she even tracked me down. She was in AA and NA and working the 12 steps. She had made a long inventory of all the things she had done wrong to me. She went through various events in great detail (some events I did not even remember) and apologized in great detail! It was profound. She remembered a lot more than I would have thought, given that she was drunk or high 24/7. Although I hadn't really thought of her in years, it was amazing to have this apology, this coming full circle.

Now I am in separated from my AH. Would an apology make any difference at some point? Yes, if it was sincere, well thought out, and soul searching, like what my roommate did. And done from a point of sobriety, of course. It would certainly not undo the tremendous damage he has done our family, but it would be something. The sort of bearing witness is very useful.

danielleinto

You asked about a spouse and I'm going to write about my father and hope that it still applies. My stbxah still drinks. I was raised in an alcoholic home. I did one on one counselling with an addiction counsellor and at the end of therapy I'd accepted that he'd done the best he could with what he had and I stopped hating him. My father never showed loved while he drank nor after he quit. He would have had to say alot for it to mean anything to me. I came out of an abusive home totally messed up because of him. I never felt loved the whole time I knew the man. An apology from him would have not meant much, I would have needed to hear that he loved me just the way I am and there were alot of other issues I'd have needed him to address. Now that's completely different from what I'd need to hear from my husband. My kids don't live at home anymore and having put some distance between themselves and their father I think an apology for them would mean alot once alot of time had passed and he'd walked the walk. They do know that their father loves them.

Freedom1990

My eyes were truly opened when I started dealing with my AD's descent into addictions. It was then that I realized the full extent of what I had put my family through. Pain was an excellent teacher in that case. I made verbal amends all over again to my family during that period.

onceuponatime2

Even though my husband is currently active in his drinking. Before this relapse he experienced several years of sobriety. He never once appologized or made amends nor even acknowledged the damage he had done to me and the kids. It was through his continued sobriety at that time that I was able to work on letting go of resentments because new ones weren't constantly being added to the pile on a daily basis. Would a sincere appology in which he acknowledged the pain he put the family through have helped this process. Yes.. I let go of resentments because of the work I did. I didn't want to remain in them.

As for today, it is difficult to live with an active alcoholic without resentments because of their behaviors. I am striving to detach as much as I can, and I may have to chose to leave him because he refuses to take responsibilty for himself. I know I can only save myself.

danielleinto

Very interesting. If you notice on this board it's female alcoholics who post here and try to help the families to understand. AVRT seems to be the only male. Seeing you post here, AVRT shows me that you are working on understanding what it's like to be married to an alcoholic. Now maybe that would have an impact on me if my husband were to do the same.

danielleinto

AVRT, saying sorry because the "alcohol made me do it" doesn't count for much with me. Detaching means accepting that what A's do isn't personal. Doing that helps me continue with my own life. Everything that's happened is personal and the damage has been done and it doesn't go away, I may deal with stuff in therapy but what I learn is how to move on, those memories will always be there. Apologizing for the hell I've gone through while someone was drunk isn't enough because an alcoholic doesn't remember what they did. That might cut it for someone who's spouse was a great human being sober. I want to have an apology for the crap that was done to me while the A was sober - before he got tanked.

Thumper

When I was mired in resentment I don't know if an apology would have helped or not. I was so resentful that he refused to acknowledge or accept any responsibility for what he was doing to his family. It hurt. It seemed so impossible to move forward without that. I think a *real* apology would have helped because it would have been some kind of sign that he got what he'd done. I couldn't trust him to not do it again if he didn't get 'it' to begin with. I placed all kinds of negative spins on that - about selfishness, uncaring, deceptive, user, - a long list.

We are divorced now. I no longer harbor resentment towards him. It no longer matters to me if he gets it or is sorry for it (although it might matter greatly to the boys some day). I do not attach all that negative stuff to it. My life no longer hinges on that. I have distance and detachment now and from here I don't think he has the cognitive ability to get 'it'. Not at this point anyway. It is like another language.

As a completely off topic, yet related and interesting aside, my xah has extreme problems with executive functions (probably exacerbated by long term excessive alcohol consumption). Our oldest struggles mightily with executive functions. I can see in my son that there is no evil intent to some of his struggles so that has helped me a little with accepting my xah for who he is today. Imperfect like the rest of us - perhaps doing the best he can. My lesson is that his best doesn't have to be good enough for me. That sounds terrible saying and it was hard to accept but it is the truth and it set me free.

FYI -
from LD.org

Terminally Unique

That should have been a warning sign. I don't advocate self-pity for life, but if the gravity of drinking does not "sink in" for someone who has a proven history of problems with drinking, they are likely to do it again at some point.

I'm sorry for your troubles. I hope you find your peace.

danielleinto

My lesson is that his best doesn't have to be good enough for me. That sounds terrible saying and it was hard to accept but it is the truth and it set me free.


It's not terrible at all to say this.

Terminally Unique

Nor should it. That's the difference I am interested in. It is easy to apologize for what one did while under the influence, after alcohol has already completely obliterated all moral judgement, but not so easy to apologize for putting oneself in that situation in the first place.

But they certainly remember drinking in the first place, and for that, they can take responsibility.

Terminally Unique

I won't say that sitting in an Al-Anon meeting didn't make me squirm at times, or that reading the F&F forum is particularly easy for me, but I think it is important to try and see the other side to fully understand.

wanttobehealthy

AVRT- Like I said, I know what I said about the men/women thing might sound over-generalized and really I'm not trying to jump to conclusions/be sexist etc... It was a thought that popped into my head and I was really just curious what others might think. I appreciate your posts and certainly hope that I didn't offend or insult you in any way.

Terminally Unique

No worries there. Feel free to speak your mind. I'm not easily offended or insulted.

danielleinto

AVRT, I know how it feels for you to read here. I go to a support group for mental illness and I've read at the family board there. My stomach dropped when I read that stuff. I'm doing fairly well now (not perfectly sane yet, lol) but living with a person who has bipolar is a roller coaster ride. Sound familiar?

Catch you later, I've read one thread and I will read the one you linked to but I've got a headache - can only handle so much of this stuff in one day. Take care

choublak

I take it honesty is too much to ask from an active alcoholic?

i.e., if you plan to keep drinking just tell me the truth so I can leave and make other plans

They never do that. It's all lies.

wellnowwhat

They never do that. It's all lies.
I think that sometimes they absolutely believe it at the time of saying it. Unfortunately, the wind blows, or something else happens, and the resolve fades.

Terminally Unique

Someone who is addicted is perpetually at war with him/herself. They simultaneously want to keep on drinking/using while minimizing the negative consequences arising from it. Part of them wants to quit, and part of them feels they need to keep it up, that they can't live without it.

They may stay in this state of ambivalence for quite some time before finally deciding one way or the other.

danielleinto

AVRT, I had to come back and say that as I was reading all of the posts on the thread you linked to I'm saying to myself, "b.s. you don't care what people think of A's". I got to the post where you said:

Not caring about what anyone thinks and engaging in grievous, antisocial conduct, to the detriment of others, is a hallmark of addiction. I believe that those who have recovered had better start caring about what society thinks and start acting like proper citizens again, if only to serve as an example.


I sure care about the stigma surrounding MI and I don't tell people I'm bipolar because of what they think. There is a stigma connected to being an addict/A too. That's why people use the word, "drunk". I've yet to hear a MI person say they don't care that society makes fun of us, fires us etc.... There's shame with both A and MI. It's something we both have to get past. We both work on our health/mind/spirit to stay as well as possible. Do you tell a prospective employer that you're an A, likely not because of what people think - the stigma. I don't let that stuff get in the way of my wellness but yeah it sure bothers me. There was one poster on that thread who said that people love A's and that's why they're on t.v. programs. That guy had better wake up and smell the coffee.

danielleinto

Sorry, if I sounded angry there. I'm not angry I just got very frustrated. Now, I'm really going.

Terminally Unique

The grand delusion of all addicted people, and this includes smokers, is that they only harm themselves. I won't venture to tell you what to do, but you might want to at least consider that shortening your own life by smoking, and possibly accumulating significant medical expenses from complications arising from smoking, would not only affect you. It would probably affect everyone in your family.