Not doing well
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,229
endgameNYC. I think the various public programs the country offers are great and such. I mean its awesome someone can take advantage of these options and pull themselves out of a pit etc..
But for others like myself I'm like well the cost for it all has to come from somewhere and I see the debt load of the country etc. and its concerning can we really afford all this? Its sad the cost of health care and such has skyrocketed to this point.
So then I think I dont want to be a burden on anyone else. etc.. and on an don you know the drill I dont want to debate the politics of it. its just different mindsets.
But I myself in the last year was no longer able to afford health insurance for my kids. I reluctantly applied for the state insurance for htem. its great I qaulify for it etc.. But I know it comes at a great cost to tax payers. A cost I even once paid with my smoking habit etc.. as part of those taxes go towards it etc.. I'm not sure if my state is in debt or not or can afford this I have not researched it.
But its like I try desperatly to not use the insurance if i dont have too etc..
Its a tough call. YOu hear stories of folks who get on public assistance and call an ambulance so they can get a ride ot the hospital for there birth control. Then you hear stories fo folks on food stamps clipping coupons and shopping sales so they can stretch those food stamps as far as they possibly can.
People are different. not everyone wants to go signing up for these services. I know i sure didnt. But i felt i was almost forced into it. if i dont have health care for my kids i could end up with CPS at my door or something if they got sick and I needed a doctor and couldnt afford one etc..
But for others like myself I'm like well the cost for it all has to come from somewhere and I see the debt load of the country etc. and its concerning can we really afford all this? Its sad the cost of health care and such has skyrocketed to this point.
So then I think I dont want to be a burden on anyone else. etc.. and on an don you know the drill I dont want to debate the politics of it. its just different mindsets.
But I myself in the last year was no longer able to afford health insurance for my kids. I reluctantly applied for the state insurance for htem. its great I qaulify for it etc.. But I know it comes at a great cost to tax payers. A cost I even once paid with my smoking habit etc.. as part of those taxes go towards it etc.. I'm not sure if my state is in debt or not or can afford this I have not researched it.
But its like I try desperatly to not use the insurance if i dont have too etc..
Its a tough call. YOu hear stories of folks who get on public assistance and call an ambulance so they can get a ride ot the hospital for there birth control. Then you hear stories fo folks on food stamps clipping coupons and shopping sales so they can stretch those food stamps as far as they possibly can.
People are different. not everyone wants to go signing up for these services. I know i sure didnt. But i felt i was almost forced into it. if i dont have health care for my kids i could end up with CPS at my door or something if they got sick and I needed a doctor and couldnt afford one etc..
Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: east coast
Posts: 1,332
Zjw, I am glad you got insurance for your kids. They deserve it and you deserve the peace of mind knowing they are covered. Understand that a ton of new taxes were instituted to help cover the increase in Medicaid and CHIP coverage. You aren't hurting anyone by getting covered. Look if you don't and you wind up hospitalized you will get charity care. Or if you refuse you could die or be a burden to your family. I know I can't change your mind. Wish I could.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,860
I'm reluctant to wade into this because this is a site devoted to sobriety and recovery.
However, I spent many years of my professional life immersed in health care policy before switching sectors. I would rather that we base any conversation here on fact and not anecdotes about people calling for an ambulance to get birth control. (Which is something I've not heard before and frankly strikes me as an urban myth perpetuated by those who a) don't like the idea of health insurance being available to all or b) have a problem with birth control. There are plenty of that ilk out there.) Whenever a statement includes "you hear stories of," my first instinct is to ask "what are the facts?"
Choosing to be uninsured when there are now realistic options available is to choose to have the cost of health care spread among others. If a person, for instance, sustains serious injuries or requires acute care and has no insurance, the cost still must be absorbed. That's what charity care is -- covering the costs of the uninsured. Ultimately, it is passed along in the form of higher premiums and higher fees. One of the reasons -- and I say one because there are many, of which just as many are complicated -- health care costs have grown is that the cost of care for the uninsured must be spread out among the the insured. The reason that having greater numbers of people being insured helps contain costs is that it spreads the risk among a larger pool of people.
While I don't wish to stir any debates -- this remains a sobriety and recovery site, after all -- I would encourage fellow journeyers to recognize that there are fewer hurdles than ever before to obtaining health coverage. Doing so is an act of self-care, self-respect and, yes, individual responsibility.
However, I spent many years of my professional life immersed in health care policy before switching sectors. I would rather that we base any conversation here on fact and not anecdotes about people calling for an ambulance to get birth control. (Which is something I've not heard before and frankly strikes me as an urban myth perpetuated by those who a) don't like the idea of health insurance being available to all or b) have a problem with birth control. There are plenty of that ilk out there.) Whenever a statement includes "you hear stories of," my first instinct is to ask "what are the facts?"
Choosing to be uninsured when there are now realistic options available is to choose to have the cost of health care spread among others. If a person, for instance, sustains serious injuries or requires acute care and has no insurance, the cost still must be absorbed. That's what charity care is -- covering the costs of the uninsured. Ultimately, it is passed along in the form of higher premiums and higher fees. One of the reasons -- and I say one because there are many, of which just as many are complicated -- health care costs have grown is that the cost of care for the uninsured must be spread out among the the insured. The reason that having greater numbers of people being insured helps contain costs is that it spreads the risk among a larger pool of people.
While I don't wish to stir any debates -- this remains a sobriety and recovery site, after all -- I would encourage fellow journeyers to recognize that there are fewer hurdles than ever before to obtaining health coverage. Doing so is an act of self-care, self-respect and, yes, individual responsibility.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 464
I can get free healthcare myself actually due to various factors and I take advantage of it occassionally. Is that wrong for me? I dont think so, because its offered, if its not me then someone else will take it. I also have health insurance because my free healthcare only goes so far.
I always felt the cost of healthcare shouldnt be an issue regardless, that health should be top priority ESPECIALLY in early sobriety. I lived my life the way I wanted to, destruction and ruining my body with alcohol. Im not apt to diagnose myself with anything (although my hypochondria does, ha ha) but Id rather be short on money fixing my health issues than letting them go on.
Then again theres only so much doctors and the healthcare system can do, its up to us to continue making the right decisions and that begins with remaining abstinent. Im finding that its getting easier and easier slightly, to fix the rest of my problems but that requires staying sober all around.
I always felt the cost of healthcare shouldnt be an issue regardless, that health should be top priority ESPECIALLY in early sobriety. I lived my life the way I wanted to, destruction and ruining my body with alcohol. Im not apt to diagnose myself with anything (although my hypochondria does, ha ha) but Id rather be short on money fixing my health issues than letting them go on.
Then again theres only so much doctors and the healthcare system can do, its up to us to continue making the right decisions and that begins with remaining abstinent. Im finding that its getting easier and easier slightly, to fix the rest of my problems but that requires staying sober all around.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,229
yeah wish i could afford health insurance. IN my case i cant afford any of the options. my wife and i go without and roll the dice like many others we know who also have no options and cant afford the few options that are out there. The insurance i Had before never covered much so i was left with mountains of medical bills. it stinks really does.
Its just how it is for some of us. I wish ic ould get some charity care to take care of the bills i have! instead i'm in collections etc.. and some of it is for services we never even received and when we inquired they said they w ould look into it. the insurance company paid there part of the charge even tho it was for something no one ever got too! such a mess it is etc..
I dont wanna get started I could rant forever over my health insurance woes lol.
But yeah I thankfully have my kids covered for now.
Thankfully i'm pretty healthy too. I always say tho its cheaper to die then it is to deal with this stuff! (sarcasm)
oh geeze i think this thread is derailed!
Its just how it is for some of us. I wish ic ould get some charity care to take care of the bills i have! instead i'm in collections etc.. and some of it is for services we never even received and when we inquired they said they w ould look into it. the insurance company paid there part of the charge even tho it was for something no one ever got too! such a mess it is etc..
I dont wanna get started I could rant forever over my health insurance woes lol.
But yeah I thankfully have my kids covered for now.
Thankfully i'm pretty healthy too. I always say tho its cheaper to die then it is to deal with this stuff! (sarcasm)
oh geeze i think this thread is derailed!
Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 464
Well if you want to call it, i dont have to pay for it myself then yeah. Point still stands though if I dont take it someone else will so I always think whats the point of making it political?
Health care can be political and its sad, thats beyond the point though! this thread is getting derailed :P
Health care can be political and its sad, thats beyond the point though! this thread is getting derailed :P
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,293
These are just my observations but it seems many people on SR fall into two categories. One group that starts sentences with I can't do this or I won't do that. Whatever advice is given, their answer is the same, I can't or I won't. I just don't see how anybody can remain sober for long with this type of attitude.
Then there are others that seem more open to considering the advice that they are given and are willing to try different things to improve their quality of life. I think fear plays a big part in this. Maybe certain personalities are more open to change. Or maybe it just comes down to how much pain a person is in and how desperate they are.
I also think that for some people, it is much more reinforcing to have a lot of drama in their life, and the attention that comes from it than to change course and take a chance at creating a different lifestyle that in the end will prove to be more rewarding. I think some people are content being miserable because that is what their used to and they get a lot out of it. John
Then there are others that seem more open to considering the advice that they are given and are willing to try different things to improve their quality of life. I think fear plays a big part in this. Maybe certain personalities are more open to change. Or maybe it just comes down to how much pain a person is in and how desperate they are.
I also think that for some people, it is much more reinforcing to have a lot of drama in their life, and the attention that comes from it than to change course and take a chance at creating a different lifestyle that in the end will prove to be more rewarding. I think some people are content being miserable because that is what their used to and they get a lot out of it. John
Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Auckland
Posts: 2,548
I think it's also worth contemplating that our beliefs about what we should or should not be entitled to are strongly influenced by the culture we live in. In many countries, including my own, free health care (like education) is considered a basic human right. Because we are acculturated to this idea, nobody in this country would countenance for a second that those who 'have less', particularly children, should go without health care. I guess it's all a matter of perspective, rather than 'right or wrong'.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Congrats, sleepie! 
I think that you have made a great deal of progress in the past few months even if it does not feel that way for you subjectively. You are dealing with a bunch of difficult challenges, which would be enough one-by-one also for a person to face and work through. My suggestion would be that you continue doing what you have been doing, including posting a lot here on SR as it seems to be to your benefit not only in terms of venting and discussing your challenges but also to have company that you seem to miss in your local reality.
On the question of healthcare and insurance. I definitely consider myself a very independent person and an individualist, and have always been this way as far as I remember even as a young kid. What helped me a lot as I grew older was actually progressing in the opposite direction: becoming more comfortable and able to ask for and accept external help. I really struggled with this even just about 2-3 years ago, but when I started to change it, I honestly mostly had great experiences. So now it's a non-issue for me and while I hesitate at times initially, I use any form of help available to me pretty much effortlessly. Sometimes I like to call this development as my recognition of interdependence rather than insisting endlessly on self sufficiency and feeling horrible when I realize I don't always have enough of it, can't figure out everything on my own, etc. It's been also a very fulfilling experience in terms of my relationships, feeling more connected and belonging this way. Being part of a system where I play my own roles and make my own contributions -- so in the grand scheme, the help I'm getting is rarely free, we all depend on one-another in a variety of ways.
I am more than happy to use my health insurance whenever I can to take care of my needs now, no hint of hesitation whatsoever. In fact, to be honest, I have no aversion to being strategical to get the most out of my possible coverage. A good ongoing example would be how I use out-of-network benefits for my long-term therapy, which I have no intention to stop anytime in the foreseeable future. My therapist and I discuss the strategy (diagnoses and procedures to put on my claims) together openly and the goal is to find ways that I can get the max coverage for an extended period of time in an era when insurance companies are hesitant to pay for long term therapy. He even asked my opinion sometimes for other cases recently, if I have ideas how to deal best with them in the context of the recent and upcoming changes in the usage of diagnostic and treatment codes and combinations on insurance claim forms, because I work in a relevant field myself. And I am happy that he seeks my ideas, that he appreciates my opinions in a broader scale beyond just my own treatment; he does this in many ways now and it only makes our alliance stronger and the work more effective that the relationship is not just one sided and a consumer-provider kind simply. So if we come up with stuff together that gets more out of the insurance companies for his patients (whom I don't even know) -- why not?
We don't get the benefits and social assistance for free or even cheap, most of us work for it and contribute to the "system" in other ways, even if it's simply just by interacting with each-other. In terms of the medical benefits, I also like to think that our problems and illnesses actually often advance science and the medical profession by providing material to work with in terms of developing new approaches. In this sense, healthcare professionals "use us" as subjects to advance their field and treatments: without cases and patients there would not be progression in this sense. So it's all one, giant interconnected system where no one exists in isolation and without affecting others. So why not use the system to our benefit within a realistic and harmless context?
In addition, I think that often our hesitation or refusal of help is rooted more deeply in psychological resistances that are interesting to think about and figure out where they come from if we can, because they can be great catalysts for change. I actually believe that many political stances and orientations we choose are rooted and work this way in their origin, then we project them out onto the "system", identify with certain movements and reject others. Not necessarily a bad thing, but if it interferes with our well-being, perhaps something to look at more deeply.
I think that you have made a great deal of progress in the past few months even if it does not feel that way for you subjectively. You are dealing with a bunch of difficult challenges, which would be enough one-by-one also for a person to face and work through. My suggestion would be that you continue doing what you have been doing, including posting a lot here on SR as it seems to be to your benefit not only in terms of venting and discussing your challenges but also to have company that you seem to miss in your local reality.
On the question of healthcare and insurance. I definitely consider myself a very independent person and an individualist, and have always been this way as far as I remember even as a young kid. What helped me a lot as I grew older was actually progressing in the opposite direction: becoming more comfortable and able to ask for and accept external help. I really struggled with this even just about 2-3 years ago, but when I started to change it, I honestly mostly had great experiences. So now it's a non-issue for me and while I hesitate at times initially, I use any form of help available to me pretty much effortlessly. Sometimes I like to call this development as my recognition of interdependence rather than insisting endlessly on self sufficiency and feeling horrible when I realize I don't always have enough of it, can't figure out everything on my own, etc. It's been also a very fulfilling experience in terms of my relationships, feeling more connected and belonging this way. Being part of a system where I play my own roles and make my own contributions -- so in the grand scheme, the help I'm getting is rarely free, we all depend on one-another in a variety of ways.
I am more than happy to use my health insurance whenever I can to take care of my needs now, no hint of hesitation whatsoever. In fact, to be honest, I have no aversion to being strategical to get the most out of my possible coverage. A good ongoing example would be how I use out-of-network benefits for my long-term therapy, which I have no intention to stop anytime in the foreseeable future. My therapist and I discuss the strategy (diagnoses and procedures to put on my claims) together openly and the goal is to find ways that I can get the max coverage for an extended period of time in an era when insurance companies are hesitant to pay for long term therapy. He even asked my opinion sometimes for other cases recently, if I have ideas how to deal best with them in the context of the recent and upcoming changes in the usage of diagnostic and treatment codes and combinations on insurance claim forms, because I work in a relevant field myself. And I am happy that he seeks my ideas, that he appreciates my opinions in a broader scale beyond just my own treatment; he does this in many ways now and it only makes our alliance stronger and the work more effective that the relationship is not just one sided and a consumer-provider kind simply. So if we come up with stuff together that gets more out of the insurance companies for his patients (whom I don't even know) -- why not?
We don't get the benefits and social assistance for free or even cheap, most of us work for it and contribute to the "system" in other ways, even if it's simply just by interacting with each-other. In terms of the medical benefits, I also like to think that our problems and illnesses actually often advance science and the medical profession by providing material to work with in terms of developing new approaches. In this sense, healthcare professionals "use us" as subjects to advance their field and treatments: without cases and patients there would not be progression in this sense. So it's all one, giant interconnected system where no one exists in isolation and without affecting others. So why not use the system to our benefit within a realistic and harmless context?
In addition, I think that often our hesitation or refusal of help is rooted more deeply in psychological resistances that are interesting to think about and figure out where they come from if we can, because they can be great catalysts for change. I actually believe that many political stances and orientations we choose are rooted and work this way in their origin, then we project them out onto the "system", identify with certain movements and reject others. Not necessarily a bad thing, but if it interferes with our well-being, perhaps something to look at more deeply.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
