Ken33xx

While we like to imagine that our beliefs are rational, logical, and objective, the fact is that our ideas are often based on paying attention to the information that upholds our ideas and ignoring the information that challenges our existing beliefs.

I never understood why some members get so wrapped up and/or upset at how others works their program.

caboblanco

yeah opinions or ideas aren't projections or being insensitive to people with other methods.. if you base your confidence in your recovery philosophy on other peoples opinions..ideas..thoughts..and in turn get insulted by opposing views or feel you need to police or to put someone in their place..there is something very wrong with that picture and it has nothing to do with ideas or people with different ideas

ideas..thoughts..opinions..are always good in my book

Boleo

Finally, someone gets my drift. There is a big difference between "Wanting" to not-drink and "doing" whatever it takes to stop drinking. One is a form of action, the other is just wishful thinking.

Not to mention, using willpower to not-drink is not the same as following some kind of program (not necessarily a 12 step program). One is a "Don't Do" program while the other is a "Do Do" program (not to be confused with "na-na, na-na, boo-boo, stick your head in doo-doo").

GracieLou

I think that is the stay drunk program. Just saying!

caboblanco

your program is not do do Boleo..I assume it's AA..but I don't know.

for one thing you didn't explain what you need to do to stop drinking besides just stop drinking..honestly you OP doesn't make any sense to me..it's funny how you think willpower..or belief in oneself is wishful thinking..and a belief that a higher power will cure you is a form of action. ..I don't know if you are trying to form an idea...or cheerlead a program. something that is rarely done ..i wish i could understand what you saying..really i do

soberlicious

Well, if you understand the psychological concept of confirmation bias that you quoted above, then you would have a better understanding of why people have a tendency to dismiss beliefs that are not in line with what worked for them.

I would agree 100% that "fighting urges" is not sustainable. Most people find this out rather quickly. But, just as we are all physically different, so are we emotionally and some people can white knuckle for a long time. Most would agree that although better than drinking, it is not a fun way to live. None of the methods I am familiar with propose willpower (as you are describing it) as an effective way to end the struggle of addiction.

Boleo

Following suggestions guarantees the following;

1. Commitment to take action
2. Willingness to learn new ways
3. Courage to change
4. Practicing new principles
5. Open-mindedness


Even though "belief that a higher power will cure you" is one of the 12 steps... it is only one of many and is followed by 10 more steps, several of which are action steps. I have yet to meet anyone who got results from step 2 all by itself. On the other hand, I have meet many who got results by taking at least some of the 5 actions mentioned above (even outside of the 12 steps).

caboblanco

you don't have to discount the power of the human will to get sober..If you look at statistics the majority of people get over their addiction this way..real alcoholics.

without your willpower or truly wanting to quit you are left with spiritual intervention or tricking your own mind with something like a placebo..For somebody who is truly an atheist they would have to say that everybody gets better by their own doing in the end regardless of their adopted philosophy...

jdooner

I was not going to comment, as I don't see this thread as productive. However, I would like to clarify that the above quote is not true.

We are never cured from alcoholism. Our sanity from a hopeless state of mind is restored through a power greater than ourselves. We recover from our disease by practicing steps 10-12.

Being cured would imply we could once again drink like a normal drinker and I know that is not what you meant or implied but wanted to point out.

caboblanco

those aren't steps or actions..those are philosophies you adopt..i'm really not buying 2-5 with what you post especially 5..i think you are more of a teacher then a learner

soberlicious

Agree again. Anyone who has beaten an addiction by any means has had to have done much on your list of 5, maybe even without being cognizant of it.

1-5 are common sense concepts. You can find them in the 12 steps, you can find them in AVRT, you can find them in Christianity, you can find them in Buddhism…
"you can find them in a boat, you can find them with a goat"...

Boleo

1. Right Understanding (Samma ditthi)
2. Right Thought (Samma sankappa)
3. Right Speech (Samma vaca)
4. Right Action (Samma kammanta)
5. Right Livelihood (Samma ajiva)
6. Right Effort (Samma vayama)
7. Right Mindfulness (Samma sati)
8. Right Concentration (Samma samadhi)

soberlicious

Buddhism is based on courage, open-mindedness, and practice of basic principles (your numbers 3-5)

Altoids

Love this, Dee74. I've learned so much here on SR that I have never heard from my doctor who will only say "go to AA", or at meetings . I've been able to apply so many things I've learned here from what others have done and experienced has been a huge blessing. There is not one magic way or a "one size fits all."

soberlicious

Of the people I personally know who died from their addictions, their families say they lost hope. They did not believe they could take action against it. They did not believe in themselves.

LBrain

GracieLou

Where is that beating a dead horse smiley? I think it is warranted right about now! LOL

soberlicious

The ability to engage in any of these requires some human effort, diligence, and discipline. Some call that willpower.

Thank you for this very meaningful contribution to the discussion.

ru12

7 of the 12 steps mention God, a higher power, or spiritual experience. None mention not drinking. I think that needs to be kept in mind if one is looking for a way to get sober.

For me, I needed to stop drinking not find God. And I am so grateful that I found that way and am enjoying my sober life to the fullest.

GracieLou

Oh lighten up. Not everything in sobriety has to be so serious. Live, love, laugh