Gottalife

I believe the OP was applying his litmus test to chronic alcoholism.

I am sure any of us could name dozens of people who have had, at some point in their lives, a diagnosable alcohol use disorder (DSMV) from which they recovered either by just growing out of it or making a simple decision. Research shows that almost 20% of our population is in the class of mild alcohol used disorder. When you start to extrapolate a bit to allow for a few generations, you could almost conclude that anyone who drinks or used to drink has at some point had a diagnosable alcohol use disorder.

If this was alcoholism in the sense the OP seems to mean, we'd be stepping over bodies everywhere, everyday, not dead ones but drunks.

Talking about alcoholics of the hopeless variety, willingness does seem to be a key ingredient to recovery.

For those hopeless ones who don't seem to get it, we have institutions. Society eventually stops them drinking by putting them in jail or asylums and Korsakov wards. I see them in the detox, passing through on their journey to wet brain and permanent insanity.

Every now and again one has a moment of insight and we sweep them into the fellowship where they often recover. But, having followed literally hundreds on this journey over the years, I have never seen a single case so badly afflicted as these folk, just get up and spontaneously recover. And it's absolutely tragic to watch an individual with a very small chance of surviving, take that fatal last drink into permamnent insanity.

afloatsober

I think that for me following suggestions required a degree of humility. And for me humility is important in my recovery.
G

desypete

were are they ?

desypete

there was a memeber who shared over the table that he felt like the biggest fraud in aa
i sat up and took notice of this guy as he was clearly speaking from the heart but the amazing thing was he had been around for about 30 years

what brought about this amazing confession ?
a simple argument with his wife of almost 50 years who had clearly just got used to living with him and his ways she snapped at him in an argument

she said
why cant you just treat me like you treat your aa friends.

i was only about 3 years around then and this made me see there is so much talk in aa from people who are really putting on a show
trying to impress people with wisdom that they had read but dont really apply it to there lives.

when things are going good in life being sober and happy and joyus and free is a peace of cake

when the crap comes in and people still try to help others well thats what will show me if there really on a program or just one of the many great wordsmiths we have in our fellowship

so for me its all about actions not words.

my sponsor would tell me
dont tell me what you do but show me what you do, i hated him for that as he could see right through my bull crap : )

caboblanco

i think people drink if they want to and that's about it.

people like getting drunk better then life itself...a simple equation that is made complicated

jdooner

This like saying the sun comes up and goes down...true but says nothing as to the why, wavelengths, solar irradiance, rotation, seasonal effects etc.

Given your desire to debate the finer nuances such as the disease argument, I am not sure I believe you simply accept this explanation too.

caboblanco

well the disease argument brings forth the idea that people don't want to drink but they have a disease that was never and never will be defined..It's ok to say you want to drink..It's ok to say your life sucks. to complicate things by making up theories isn't productive to me...I didn't catch a bug that was living dormant in my genetic code..i wanted to drink..just like anyone else. there shouldn't be any shame in that

desypete

i dont understand what your saying here, maybe you can say why you think its not a disease

jdooner

I understand and this is your truth and experience but not mine. I jut don't like when others generalize and include me in there generalization. I did not drink just because I liked to drink. Did I do that sometimes? Yeah. Towards the end? No, its was because I had to. Very different experience and so I have had to craft presumably a very different recovery.

I find when I used to generalize its because I didn't feel secure in what I was doing. By telling others how it is or was, I was projecting for purposes of reinforcing my own insecurities about recovery, program, myself.

ScottFromWI

This is a very tired argument. And it doesn't have one Answer that fits all, it never will. Is this really beneficial to anyone outside the small circle of you few who incessantly debate it here?

dwtbd

Recovery is for(and possible) for those who seek it, the generalization is that all seek it .

Archelon

Lots of willingness to do what it takes, just don't drink! Just didn't need a lot of suggestion.

Those people have been a huge inspiration to me. They helped me to see it doesn't have to be drama.

Ken33xx

I was told early sobriety by someone with 30 plus years that those who stay sober are those who appreciate their sobriety.

I found this to be true.

However, I would also add those who stay sober don't take their sobriety lightly either.

They keep vigilant or in my case try to attend meeting regularly.



Agree.

Boleo

Sounds like my experience with quitting tobacco. You will never see me at a meeting or website to talk about my tobacco "recovery experience" because I am not really sure I have any "experience" to share.

NoelleR

For me, one of my litmus tests for my recovery is when a waiter asks me if I would like a before dinner (or after dinner) drink and I reply, "No, thank you," and I truly mean that; I truly do not 'want' a drink.

(o:
NoelleR

ru12

Exactly.

desypete

one other important question i would love to ask you is how long have you been sober for ?

i stayed sober for 15 years after going to aa for 3 years then thinking i could do this on my own i went my own way and lived a decent life as i chased after money to build up a future

after 15 years i ended up picking up a drink again just like aa had predicted would happen
they also predicted that if i was only a small time drinker say weekends only then i would progress to drinking daily
and thats exactley what happend to me plus losing everything i loved or owned
i ended up flat broke and doing short prision stints as a rewards for my drunken behaviour

in short i ended up just like aa predicted i would end up

i can not do this on my own it cost me a lot in my life to learn this lesson but for those 15 years i was sober on my own i would of argued with the devil that i could do this just by stopping

i could stop sure i could stop but i couldn't stay stopped

this is the problem with this illness of alcoholism that not all drinkers have

people can go out and have a few drinks and leave it alone
i couldnt and never could right from my early years of drinking i would take the first drink get that taste for it or feeling or craving however you want to look at it but once i had it i needed more and more and i could say no thanks i have had enough

i wish i had been one of my friends who drank but would always be sober enough to carry me home
why the hell couldnt i be just like them and drink and not get into trouble ?

it can not be and never will be able for me to drink alcohol as i know exactly what it will cost me

Boleo

I quit smoking simply by white-knucking it ODAAT till the cravings, obsession and most of the desires faded away. It would be easy for me to tell those currently struggling with their tobacco addiction that they are too weak or stupid to do what I was able to do.

However, I only smoke for 10 years. My sister who smoked for 30 years told me I was clueless about what it takes for a person who smoked ALL of their adult life, goes through when trying to quit. For me to call her level of addiction a "theory" would be a tremendous insult to people in her position. For me to tell her she "was just plain weak" would be like pouring salt in her wounds.

I once thought about going on websites and giving advice to recovering tobacco addicts, but I expect it would not be long before they started calling me a troll. My experience with smoking was not the same as a full blown addiction.

Dee74

To me, the good thing about SR is that everyone's experience is valuable.

I have no experience of recovery in AA, but I have experience in recovery using SR.
Other have experience in SMART, or LifeRing, or WFS, or Rational Recovery, counselling and rehabs....

All we can share is our experience - otherwise we'd be speaking of, qualifying, or passing judgement on, experiences we've never had - and that's not what we do here

D

caboblanco

you win Boleo..you're the best alcoholic in the world....i didn't say anything to anybody about who they are or what their drinking is about...I just said I think... but i don't need to be told i don't know what drinking is....i'm not

speaking from just my experience. really i was raised by a heavy drinker..i think liver damage and a case of beer a night is good enough for personal experience...im sorry maybe i don't have the "disease." when they define this disease in any kind of scientific way you can send me a pm...ill do the alcoholism walks with you to raise charity to cure it once and for all.