tomw

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I missed the video too

IOAA2

I wonder if this "new" AA thinking might be a reason the success rate is so low? Most of this "new" AA seems to come from rehabs and passed from one newbee to another and often lost in translation.

Just old time thinking here.

BE WELL

ToxicTonic

I used to go to this 'highbrow' meeting in Kennebunk. There was this newcomer lady sharing and crying about how she can't stop drinking. After she shared, not one person even acknowledged that she had spoken. So I raised my hand, and shared about my experience, but looking at her and relating to what she said. Afterwards at the business meeting, I was told that my share was "crosstalk". I was amazed, I had no idea. I never interrupted her while she was speaking I just shared my own experience after. I went to this same meeting one more time after this, there was a young man sitting next to me with tears running down his cheeks during the whole meeting. After the meeting ended, he stood around and not one guy went up to talk to him. I wish I had, but then I would have been accused of 13th stepping. I keep thinking about that and hoping he went back. I will NEVER go back to that meeting again. And I will never let someone sit there and cry w/o reaching out to them ever again because I was afraid of what the group might think or say to me after.

Redmayne

Having attended various meetings over a 30 year drinking history on an intermittent basis, withing the area of the large urban conurbation where I live. So it's possible to go to to a different meeting every night of the week.

I must admit, when I was relieved of my alcoholism, six years ago and became sober.

I stropped going to A.A. meetings because by then it had become apparent that many of those who attended had problems that had nothing to do with alcohol, and even less to do with alcoholism or getting into recovery.

Apart from which, there were others, in which if they hadn't have said the A.A. Preamble at the start of the meeting. You wouldn't have even know you were at an A.A. meeting?

Personally, I take the view, as I know do many others that the Fellowship of A.A.has ,'lost its' way.'From it's original purpose.

Which, remembering what Carl Sandburg said,'That a society that forgets where it came from.Will destroy itself.' As history has often proved, is a bit worrying...

NoelleR

"...remembering what Carl Sandburg said,'That a society that forgets where it came from.Will destroy itself.'..."

Are you sure that's Carl Sandburg; it sounds more like George Santayana........: Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

(o:
NoelleR

Pipefish

We have cross-sharing advice at some, but very few meetings, here (as in don't call people out/take a sideways swipe) This can in any case be hard to detect, and in the real world, this doesn't happen, so it's not great preparation for real life, but have a feeling it's to do with that often heard saying 'safe place'....and not sure of the wisdom or provenance of that one either

Cross-talk have never heard of, but it makes very little sense that people wouldn't identify with the speaker, or 'say what they see' as applied to their own experience, if that makes sense. Otherwise it may well seem like a room full of people talking to themselves, rather than sharing a collective experience and solution. Have been to a few meetings like that...

Interesting point about the influence of treatment centres on AA. The best way I can summarise the rehab experience of the steps and the AA experience of the steps is that in rehab it was more like a dramatic confessional, with little relief from my alcoholism and not much, if any, genuine ownership of character defects - most of the time, admission that I was fearful, was the best I could do, if that. It also sat strangely at odds with therapy for me personally. That could also speak more to my readiness than anything else. But certainly identify here with attending meetings that seem to me to be without AA substance, and veer from quasi therapy to not really knowing how to support others with the AA program

This time around, my experience of doing the steps again, and this time, doing this with a step sponsor the BB way is of being liberated from active alcoholism. It's a very freeing process, and the ownership of character defects, default responses, and patterns is such valuable information. Some of this - along with real, practical, simple stuff - the living sober book, the just for today card, arriving early to set-up, helping clear away, the informal fellowship bit which is equally important, making the steps simple and accessible (trust god, clean house, help others) and step guidance from the big book, which I'd not experienced before, does seem to be lost at some meetings, but certainly not all, and that stuff has helped me hang in there

Gone off topic....and it's a good topic

2muchpain

Seahorse

What you experienced is just plain wrong!! I have been to meetings like the one you described, and quit going, because I and probably others were afraid to share anything, because of fear of being reamed over it. I and others have shared something at these meetings, and have been openly criticized for saying what I said by the same people that are big on no cross-talking. Go figure. The one I go to now is very different. If someone shares a concern, others will share their strength, hope and experience while looking at the person. To me that shows true caring and compassion. I hope you find a meeting like this where you live.

Db1105

She I was first coming around in the late 1970's there were several 'tough love' meetings in the area. Not only was there cross talk, it was expected. All I know is that they taught be how to stop a BS-ing myself. Not only would they call you out in the meeting, they would talk to you outside in the parking lot afterword for however long it took.

Of course there would be a few who would be nasty, just to be nasty, but they would be straightened right out by the group conscience. There were some very intense, spiritual meetings at times. Those types of meeting work for some people and groups. It's up to each group on how they want to deal with the issue.

CousinA

^^^
THIS. It was my experience in the early 80's. What some crosstalk today is what we call sharing. I was recently at a meeting where someone shared about having someone else buying them drugs which they had in their house. Another newcomer shared about congratulating themselves for going clubbing all night and not drinking. No one said a word. Back in the day we would have been read the riot act.

I've been having this very same conversation with a friend and we're done with sitting quietly (bleeding deacons?). If they get angry they can put us on their 4th steps.

A benefit of being an "old timer" is that sometimes, people tend to listen. I'd rather they pay attention to the message rather than the number, but whatever it takes.

-allan

larrylive

OMG...Wow...and Thank you.

First; we have one of those chaos & drama meeting places in my area, I don't go.

second; I love the idea of allowing crosstalk aka; dialogue/feedback, i think I will bring this up at our next business meeting.

Regards,
Larry

Gottalife

Being of 1980s vintage myself, I found the feedback from the chair after each share was generally very helpful and let the speaker know that at least someone had been listening. Also, when in the chair myself, I had to listen closely in order to give any feed back, though a lot of mine was wide of the mark.lol.

I have only come across this no crosstalk rule recently and I take it to mean I should not interrupt a sharer and engage in conversation, this would just be bad manners and I never do it.

However once in a while someone will try and prevent sharing my experience on an issue raised by another speaker. I take no notice.

Another one cropped up the other day - unsolicited advice. To me the very act of coming to AA for help with a drinking problem is In fact soliciting advice. And my advice in AA is to follow the suggestions in the Big book.

But it seems for certain folk it is inappropriate to offer such advice unless they ask for it and like what you say. The truth is often not popular, but when an individual is heading down a path, or being advised to head down a path, that experience shows may have disastrous consequences, I feel free to suggest they get a second opinion before it's too late.

sugarbear1

"Did bill or dr bob ever have such problems"

Absolutely!!!!

Any time there is a room full of drunks, anything is possible!

SadWife7

I'm on the other side of this, I've gone to a few Alanon meetings and one of the rules that is read at the beginning is no cross talk. I don't like it. I go to a family support group at an addiction center that is led by one of the counselors there. I want support & advice, as well as information, not to just say my piece and then hear someone else say theirs. We can not give advice is another rule at the Alanon meetings I've been too. I understand they can't tell me what I should & shouldn't do, but, I also WANT the opinions of people who have been through the same situations that I am in now.

biminiblue

Sadwife, one of the biggest issues codependents have is trying to fix other peoples' problems instead of focusing on their own issues.

If an AlAnon meeting allowed advice, everyone would focus on the person with the first problem. The problems are similar enough that broad concepts can be applied to each individual situation.

You can always have before-meeting and after-meeting meetings, or phone calls for the kind of thing you are looking for.

biminiblue

My understanding of the term "cross-talk" is that people do not interrupt a person or comment while someone is speaking - and that there are not conversations going on between people during meeting time: not that we are prohibited from speaking on a subject that has been brought to light by someone else's shared experience.

Obviously giving advice directly to someone is bad form. We all have enough of our own crap with which to deal.