2dayzmuse

I don't know much about CES, but a statement you made caught my eye.

I'm a 12 step person and I go to a chiropractor, believe heavily in acupuncture and Chinese medicine/herbs and practice prayer which is commmon for a 12 stepper. I think of meditation as a great option. Is the above considered out of the ordinary for a 12 step person? I find your comment confusing. It confirms my belief that 12 step programs are very misunderstood.

Done_With_It

For the record, it Is Not outlawed, and IT IS NOT basically frying your brain.

It saved one of my best friends. Before they suggested it to her, I thought it was the same. I watched Requim and thought that is what it was about.
Before she got it, I did tons and tons of research on it with her........

For 'some' it can be life saving.....

Done_With_It

You know I know I don't do the steps, but since coming to SR, I've gotten more and more confused about the steps.
Not that I'm saying SR is what confused me, it's just reading so much about info on them, gets confusing.

2dayzmuse

I was confused about the steps myself Done, until I done them. Just kidding with you. The twelve steps are simple. People tend to complicate them though.

You work them with a sponsor so the confusion can be cleared up. The sponsor is there for guidance. I think what some people get confused with is that fact that all though we may follow a 12 step program, we can venture out to have individual thoughts and beliefs outside of the program. We all aren't programmed the same way to believe the same thing outside of our problem with alcohol.

Often times called a cult, I don't see it that way. I couldn't conform to cult like behavior. I just want to stay sober. I am willing to go to any lengths for that. However, I don't want to hear whether I should practice Eastern or Western medicine. You know what I mean? That is going to far, but hey, I may have misread the meaning of the post in the first place. That would mean that I've been rattling on about nothing, but it got my mind to venture into different areas.

I've been in AA for 2 1/2 years and this is the first time chiropractic and acupuncture has come into the picture. I think its kinda funny. Things can easily be misunderstood and that is okay. Things can easily be cleared up at times too, or not. If you ever have any questions about the 12 steps, ask away anytime.

Done_With_It

I may just do that Muze..... They interest me.

Arura

Mornin SR , sorry if i get this abit wrong, never heard of ces.but what your saying is tha tyou give yourself small electric shocks....?

i remember along time ago i was going to an alternative therapy place
and they had a similar sounding device.you held it in your hands and it sent small shocks up yer arms.Somthing about reactivating the nervous
system...???????

it sounds abit servere but like has been posted,for the right situation.

just read the instructions ........

Christian

well its not wrong =], but just some people like to have their 'gold standard' treatment. Like thier primary one, or most weighted, be it 12-step, pharmaceuticals, therapy, or any of the above. Others may not see the usefulness of 'alternative' treatments, while others may usea combination of all different treatments.

So it might be out of the ordinary though, since say you are just an addict, then hit bottom and submit yoruself to 'the system,' like say a rehab home or NA/AA, then most likely *depensing on the facility* you may not hear abuot acupuncture, chiropractic, herbals, meditation, CES.

It all depends on the place, they might emphasise 12-step + pharmaceuticals (sub, methadone, anti-d's), and be clear I am not saying any of these are better or worse. in fact probably 12-step might be the most 'tried and true' effective treatment. Im simply just putting out more options here, things works for some better than others.


actually before iwas kinda 'anti-pharma' a few montsh ago, but i have come around and now I am getting some Anti-d's to try out.

Christian

Actually, the BT-7 one which is made by a doctor is $172 and is time tested safe/effective, however Shivverz just let me konw he got one from eBay (CES device) for $20. So, hes going to have to make sure to post the results here, also there may be other cheaper ones. the one reccomended to me was the BT-7, and i have decent money so i just got that. if ur on a budget there might be other options ...

and yes, thanks again Golf for posting the info.

Christian

hmm, well there may be some misconception i am using it right now as i type, i feel like slight tinglining on my neck, it can feel good at times kinda (not really in a cutting type of way, but a strange way).

It can be barely noticable also.

that thing they gave you at your therpay place sounds similar, i have never heard of that before i must say, and i have heard of a bunch of things ...

2dayzmuse

What an individual recognizes as viable treatment and what the system recognizes are two separate issues. Many insurance companies don't recognize alternative practices. They consider them to be experimental. I find that to be a shame. It is just another way to manipulate the system and escape payment.

Christian

yes, i believe in time, science will be able to understand and show that things like acupuncture really do work, and HOW. That's the thing that since science doesn't really understand HOW acupuncture works, they are hesitant to reccomend it. The same goes for other treatments. I think in 10 years from now, we will have more 'tools' in our arsenal for dealing with addiction and substance abuse, that come from a verified scientific sources. However, for now, if one is struggling, it may be worth it to invest in 'alternative' or non-proven treatments ... similar to a cancer patient who might go for an alternative treatment in their last days..


But as HistoryTeach mentioned, this also opens up for scam artists, and others to come in, so buyer beware. But jsut because somethign is not yet understood or proven by science, does not mean that it is not effective, or even more effective than standard treatments. (PS I am not making any claims like this for CES)

so really it comes down to making our own decisions, the worst that can happen is you waste some $$, since CES is at least proven to be safe in humans. Its effectiveness is uncertain and debated however.

Also on this line, I think Holosync (its a meditation binaural CD) is a pretty effective product, however science is still in the works of officialyl verifying this.

BigSis

My mom had a TENS unit - it didn't do much for her - was supposed to stimulate nerves to get them overworked so they wouldn't be so sensitive to pain.

But what the heck is "BASELINE LEVEL" for a brain? Baseine... WHAT? Is there a chemical chart ... or Ohms or Volts or Watts or PH level or something that we are all supposed to be at?

And a 95% success rate? Anything, and I mean anything - including car manufacturers, birth control methods, therapy groups or dance lessons that claim a 95% success rate... are generally 95% wrong.



HOWEVER... If painting ourselves green and dancing naked around a fire will get/keep a person sober - I am all for it.

$172 is less than many hokey rehabs that use vitamins and radon therapy charge... and probably less harmful.

If they really do have a 95% success rate, it should be in the news any minute now....

2dayzmuse

Buyer beware most certainly.

CarolD

This statement from the link Christian posted..

One other effect, which is really a side effect due to the proximity of the region of stimulation to the optic nerves, is that while you are using it you will see bursts of light in your peripheral vision. These light bursts (phosphenes) pulse along with the 0.5 Hz frequency of the CES signal. I speculate that this is simply a result of the electrical current causing excitation of the retina or optic nerves, which in turn causes the phosphenes. No big deal. There is no harm being done and they are actually quite interesting in their own right. The higher the amperage of the current the more visible the phosphenes are.

sounds totally dangerous.

I certainly would ask a optomologist before stimulating
retinas and optic nerves with any thing!

You can not replace retinas or optic nerves.
Once gone so is your vision.

Geez! AA is a lot safer!!..

Buzz Kilowatt

A small percentage of epileptics can experience siezures with strobe lights, particularly if they flash between 5-30 times per second.

Although your device "flashes" 2X a second, I'd be sure to include a caveat to people prone to seizures.

- Buzz

Christian

well, optometrists to me is a WHOLE different subject. Have you heard of Dr. Bates? He was an opotometrist around the turn of the century, who could resotre peoples eyesight to 20/20 consistantly. There are hugely available archives of his available online. Wearing glasses or contacts is one of the WORST things you can do for your brain he concludes. So by this hypothesis, modern day optometrists and causing a lot more damage than good by pettling glasses, which prevent any natural recovery of vision, and caus dysfunction of the brain.

you can find his archives online at several sources.


ok, well, in conclusion, i realize we might be coming to a point of beating a dead horse here, but i think some good opinions were stated from both sides here.

CarolD

I did say....optomologist

not optometrists

Vast difference.

I still think it is dangerous to subject optic nerves
and retinas to bright bursts of light.
Risky for damn sure.

And that is what the machine does.

I would not feel right if I did not voice my concern.

Christian

Your concerns are appreciated, but there is no risk at all in humans, if you have researched or read you would konw this is not a 'new' fad treatment, its scientifically tested and proven safe for over (30+ years?), and you can get a machine from your doctor with a prescription.

I think the only question is whether its a waste of money, or it actually is effective, which im sure involves a lot of personal opinion since its hard to scientifically guage 'improvement' as far as well being.

shivers

well i bought one of those units and never really noticed a change in depression, however it did make my eyes go blind every time it would pulse (only works with mens eyes for some reason). So i conclude it probably is only good at making you go temporarily blind or frying your brain. But i'd stick to a pill or exercise anyday for real relief from depression.