getr345

marvelgirl: If pot keeps you from doing heroin, good for you. I'd say keep right on keeping on but IMO, at some point, you have to put it all behind you and get truly sober, right? Live life on life's terms as mentioned in this thread? Not substitute the use of one drug for another? I guess the answer to all that depends on what your goals are. If the goal is "don't do heroin" and pot helps, more power to ya! As drugs go, they certainly don't compare. All I can say is, pot was the last thing standing between me and a truly sober life, free from addiction and dependence. I used to think the saying "I'm high on life" was the DUMBEST thing I ever heard in my life but now I understand what it means, because for me it's finally true.

navysteve

I tried just smoking pot once, then I forgot I wasn't supposed to drink, shoot dope, steal stuff, eat cheetos etc...

If you are an addict and your plan is to replace one drug for another you are doomed to failure. I don't care what anyone says or if they think I am cocky or whatever. I have been to alot of funerals for people who tried the same thing. It don't work. I don't know about in the UK, but here across the pond you can still get locked up for smoking weed, certain jobs ( most decent paying ones) require drug testing. That seems quite unmanageble to me.

Do what you are gonna do, we have a way that works that is far beyond any drug ( and I did them all! )

CrackQuack

I didn't read what everyone else wrote, because I am crunched for time (gotta go to job number 2 here in a few minutes), but I wanted to advise against smoking pot instead of drinking. You shouldn't do either.
I substituted pot for crack, to curb the desires to smoke crack. I also drank to substitute, as well as take vikes. None of them worked. I eventually ended up smoking crack again anyway.
Since I don't normally drink, I wouldn't consider having a beer a relapse to ME, but I won't drink anyway because I fear it COULD lead to smoking crack again. That is why I also won't smoke pot or pop pills.
I highly advise against substituting. I don't know if they make prescriptions for alcohol withdrawals??? If they do, see a doctor and talk with them about your options.
Once I quit substituting and accepted the fact that I would go through withdrawals, and I STILL am suffering from them, I've made it 71 days completely clean! I DID take a few vikes, but the prescription belongs to me, it was for my back and headaches, and taken AS prescribed by my doctor. Handed out to me by my best friend.

change4penny

Quack...(can't bring myself to type cr***)
I'm a recovering opiate/coke addict. Alcohol was never my thing, but I'm abstaining from it and anything else mind altering, cause, as my counselor said while I was in rehab..."Penny, you're addicted to MORE" and I'd fear that I'd just substitute one for the other and swithch'em up!

Penny

CrackQuack

Fill the void with something fun and LEGAL. Think of all the money you would be saving by not buying drugs/alcohol, and buy yourself a treat. Ice cream, clothing, shopping, bowling, adventure golf, real golf, join a gym, dinner with friends, go racing (that's what I am putting my race car back together for! LOL), buy things that you would like to put on your vehicle and learn to put them on yourself, zoos, a trip to a different state/country... Anything you can think of. Dunno what your interests are, but think about something you'd really like to try. Finding a new hobby is FUN in of itself.
Again, can't tell you want to do. These are just suggestions.

CrackQuack

A HP can be anything or anyone you want it to be. For me, it's a battle between a God (which I believe in), NA, and Crack Cocaine. Trust me when I say it can be ANYTHING. Crack ruled my life for years. I did anything for crack. Much like a Christian goes to church (the dealer's house was my church), listens to the Preacher (Dealer was my preacher), reads their Bible (any written (or verbal) word on crack/making it/scoring it/etc. was my Bible), and prays (if I had a dime for every time I prayed not to get caught for copping, I'd be able to buy new clothes, pay bills, etc. with ease), I did what I felt I needed to do in order to get loaded.
Were there underlying problems that caused me to turn to crack? I have no clue. Right now, I haven't had a spiritual awakening to see the light about it. Right now, I remember not feeling depressed, down, or trying to fit in. I was drunk and my ex had offered to let me try it enough times, I just finally did. Do I blame the booze? No, I wasn't THAT drunk. I made my own choice, and now I have to live with it.
As far as thinking that, as addicts, we can get addicted to anything, I don't know whether I could believe that or not. I think it is different for everyone. I never had a problem with drinking, smoking pot, or popping pills until AFTER I tried to use them to substitute for my crack cravings. Then it seemed I was doing one or more of the three all the time, just to not smoke crack. Even thought about just snorting coke.. But I didn't. BUT I also relapsed and ended up going on a weekend crack binge three more times.
The last go round of completely abstaining from them all (except for taking my prescribed vikes- as prescribed), I've stayed off of crack for more than 70 days! I'd never gone more than 10, truthfully, before.
Now, years from now, when I am clean and haven't smoked crack, would I take a drink or smoke a joint? Maybe. Maybe not. I am not going to worry about it. It's not something I look forward to, want to do, or care about doing.
And I DO think we, as humans, ALWAYS need something to fill the void. I think it is why addicts turned to drugs. Heck, my first DOC, that I NOTICED, was cars and drag racing. Tell me what person, in their right mind, needs 6 vehicles and a 20 foot enclosed trailer, to themselves? I DID skip a few bills, birthdays, family and friend gatherings, forced them to work around MY racing schedule, and the week before my father shot himself, instead of spending time with him, I was getting ready for and went on a week long racing trip. I regret that so much. I could have spent time with him, but who knew he'd shoot himself too, right??? Either way, I don't think about the last part, I just think F***, I could have spent more time with Dad. I was always Daddy's little girl.
It's just a matter of what you chose to fill that void. You could use illegal drugs (which, yeah, I too, think pot is mostly harmless, for SOME people, and it's better than cigs, actually, but I am just doing what my sponsor suggested, and so far, it's working great), get spiritual or religious on an HP, go to meetings, find a hobby, work your butt off (like I am supposed to be doing right now), go to school... All kinds of things. It's your choice, and all we can do is make suggestions.
I also don't believe that pot is the gateway drug. For some people, it might be, but I really think that the media/government has over inflated it for whatever their reasoning is. I don't believe in gateway drugs, personally. I started tooting cocaine. I tried acid, pot, and alcohol as a teen. I quit doing anything once I got pregnant at age 15. I didn't do anything, other than drinking, until my eldest son was 16. Then I tooted again, started drinking more heavily, and finally ended up trying crack (pot never entered the equation this time). I could put the coke and the bottle down, but I could NOT put the pipe down. It interfered with my life, my well being. I did so many things to get crack. Things I never did to get cocaine, booze, pot, pills, or any other drug. Some of those things, when I think about them, I want to go crawl in a pipe with a big ol' rock, but then I remember the ROCK IS WHAT GOT ME THERE in the first place. UGH!
And I have a question for people to ponder. SINCE cigarettes ARE indeed a drug, are we INDEED truly recovering addicts, or are we just abstaining from what we consider our DOC (crack, cocaine, alcohol, pot, meth, heroin, etc.)??? I wonder about that sometimes, as I am a smoker, and I have, indeed been smoking a lot more lately....
Or do we just consider cigs out of that equation for whatever our personal reasons are? Because they are legal? So is booze. Because no one hurts themselves or others when smoking a cig (how many times I've swerved because I dropped my cig, and what I am doing to my body smoking them, oh boy!)? Or because we don't want to believe or face that they are addicting??
Or is it just something that, as long as it isn't interfering with our lives the way our DOC's did, it's OK?
I am just asking because I am genuinely curious. I am not trying to prove a point or get something bad started. It's just something that popped into my head while I was reading the thread.. hehehehe

change4penny

Marvelgirl

You said "do not pull the legal card out on this one, cause the majority of you are on this board because of legalized drugs" WTF! You must be stoned, cause the last time I checked marijuana is ILLEGAL. And this forum is called SOBER RECOVERY
As for the 'legalized' drugs the majority of us are on...Let me tell something sweetheart, those same drugs become illegal when you buy them off the street, doctor shop, and rob pharmacys to get them. AKA what addicts do to get the "legalized" drugs. Weed, in some states is also prescribed for medicinal reasons, but kicking a heroin habit is not one that I know of.
So, IMO, don't come to a SR board and expect for people to tell you it's o.k. to smoke weed as a means to kick heroin, or that it's o.k. to smoke weed PERIOD, cause it's not, and it IS illegal.



c4p

ex D-Boy

i dont know why i even respond on posts like these, ive been around the boards over a year now and this exact subject seems to come up once every few months and ends in everybody bringing out ther 'flamethrowers' trying to burn everybody else and eventually gets shut down by a mod.........but i here i go anyway........

Being a former heroin addict myself, i can see where marvel is coming from with the idea to smoke weed to help her stay off heroin.(i never did it that way because the only drugs I even liked in the first place was opiates) Some cant seem to fathom the concept of using drugs to get off drugs but in certain cases it CAN (note: i said can not will) be beneficial. For example :: when you check yourself into an expensive detox they give you an assorted cocktail of different drugs during your stay there in order to ease your detox process(i know this from personal experience in detox centers). I have known of many dopeheads who have used pot, xanax and even alcohol to help during that cold turkey detox of heroin.

It lead to mixed results...some ended up back on heroin shortly (as my friend ian has just posted) some ended up switching addictions...and well, others ended up kicking ther dope habit and only using those other drugs for a brief period of time to make themselves a bit more comfortable during detox.

If marvel smokes a bit of weed for a few weeks to help keep her off heroin and it actually works i am 100% for it. Anything that keeps a needle out of her arm is a win in my book (and in any other ex dopeheads...)

Now if she tries this method and ends up back on heroin she knows that it didnt work and will have to learn from her mistake and try something new, but if it works than where is the harm??? Only she will find out for herself. I have tried basically all drugs (yes i consider alcohol a drug) and heroin (my DOC) is probably one of the nastiest addictions ther is out there....if marvel is able to achieve sobriety through her methods lets please be happy for her instead of judging and laying guilt down.


also on a side note :: we must not forget that some people who are on heroin are only physically dependent on the drug and not at a mental addiction stage. I was not lucky enough to be one of those cases but I know a few friends who just couldnt break the use solely because of the physical withdrawal symptoms but once they had been properly detoxed or did a typical "tie me to the tree for 5 days so i can beast it out" they never went back out. Because heroin is probably the most highly physically addictive drug ther is (yes research backs it up) some users end up in this situation above where they truly want to stop but ther body just cannot handle the physical withdrawal.

navysteve

I am an ex IV drug user myself and your post does not speak for me at all.

I agree, a drug abuser's problems stop when they put down the drug( OK, maybe after being dope sick), and addicts problems just begin.

Or die. Many never return from the practice of self-medication.

Not trying to lay down guilt, but the truth is many don't stay clean who travel this path, that is what many years in the rooms have shown me. I get sick of going to funerals and comforting people's loved ones all because they wouldn't or couldn't get clean. IF that sounds like a guilt trip , then so be it. This sh!t kills people and I for one will call it when I hear it. I do that because I care. There is a huge difference between accepting where someone is at and being apathetic.

ex D-Boy

If the marijuana is helping her (like she says) why take it away from her?? So that she can start going insane with the fiending and dopesickness and end up caving (like she has said she has done so many times in the past ) and end up using heroin again , and like you say , possibly die and not come back? Are you advocating that?? is that a better decision than using pot every once in a while to ease her anxiousness and depression??

Take this for a simple analogy. Lets say somebody comes to the rooms of GA (gamblers annonymous) with a serious problem, they cannot stop going to AC or vegas and spending days at the cra.ps tables gambling thousands and thousands of $$. Now this person tries to simply quit all types of gambling but always seems to end up coming back to the casino. (Obviously this method is not working for said addict true?) So they come up with an idea to play a 2$ scratch off twice a week. This seems to calm the person and keep them from putting the deed to their house up at the casino like they had done in the past.

Results :: playing the 2$ scratch off twice a week keeps the addict from going into detrimental terrirtory of trying to stop all forms of gambling and continually failing and ending up in serious financial troulbe, not only hurting themselves but others around them who care and love that individual.

Would you tell that person that what they are doing is wrong and they should just keep trying to abstain from all types of gambling when they have already proven that they are not able to do that?? Seems very illogical to me...

and as for the physical dependence vs mental addiction...that was my whole point, perhaps she is only hooked because of the physical withdrawal and not actually addicted to the heroin, in which case, once her detox and dopesickness faded away...her problems would indeed be solved, because she is not an addict. So if that was the case and the reason she kept running back to the dope was because of uncomfortable feelings // sickness than smoking pot may be beneifical to her.

These werent my own experiences with heroin but the human mind is complex and unique, and as we all know, there is not any clear cut formula to staying clean ;\

change4penny

Ex
I'm a recovering opiate/cocaine addict, 201 days now. I was in rehab with IV heroin users and they didn't use weed as a mean to quit, nor they didn't suggest it for obvious reasons, um like it's illegal.
Marvel and anybody else can use sub or go the methadone route under a doctors care. And don't use the cop out that "it's expensive". Yeah, it may be, but so is our habits. But we somehow were always able to get our DOC...hence we BECAME addicts, right.
I know my husband lost our insurance through his job and I, thankfully, was approved for a program to receive free sub for a year.
I think it's very dangerous to tell someone "we're all different so if it works, cool." And if that person get arrested for driving under the influence, or with weed in their car, or they fail a random drug test @ their job, what then? Gotta fly the flag on this one!
C4p

change4penny

Ex
The gambling analogy doesn't even fall in the same category...Please! I doubt some is gonna fall over dead by playing the slots over and over again!

ex D-Boy

god you people dont even listen, i was not suggesting this girl start using marijuana as quick as possible to help her. SHe has already said multiple times she is already DOING This. being that I know how drug users are, what good is it to tell her that she is wrong and she will fail?? it serves no purpose at all , it will only put her into a more hostile mood and think that she shouldnt be on this site.

Also being that you didnt even bother to read either of my two posts (maybe they were to long? im not sure) I said using marijuana in a short term (being a week or so only during detox period) might help her in her own situation. Especially if it keeps her off heroin, she has a far GREATER chance of going out and getting arrested high on heroin , or trying to cop heroin in a bad area, or Overdosing than she does by smoking a joint.

and another thing . zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Freedom1990

As another former IV drug user, my experiences have been similar in the rooms of recovery.

I am grateful for every miserable gut-wrenching second that I had when I first got clean/sober. If coming off of the drugs/alcohol would have been easy, I sure wouldn't have had much incentive to stay clean/sober.

I can also appreciate the fact that people have the right to cheat themselves out of recovery as much as they want to. Been there, done that, got that t-shirt, and was lucky to make it back alive.

ex D-Boy

Exactly my point!!!!!!!!!!! nobody is going to fall over dead from smoking a joint!!!!!! you just helped me prove my point without even knowing it thanks~~

Freedom1990

My 31 year old AD has chronic obstructive pulmonary disease from smoking pot on a daily basis. It's a slow death, but death nonetheless. Are you still smiling?

ex D-Boy

did your 31 year old AD get that from smoking pot for a total of 1 week during a heroin detox??


Anti flamethrower shield activated , looks like these people are gonna start getting nasty now ;\

Freedom1990

No, she didn't.

No flame-throwing here. That's not my style. Oh, and I'm not sure what you meant by 'these' people, but I'll take it as a compliment.

ex D-Boy

didnt think so.


And I think you may want to read over my posts again, i think you got the wrong idea. I was not suggesting this person should switch to smoking pot everyday instead of shooting dope ( i think vintermester said that) you might be confusing us :P


I believe the key to breaking addiction, recreational drug use is information. Then again , a well informed person has the ability to break any bad habit// addiction or solve any problem. If they chose the wrong decision after being informed, then its all on them..but they deserve the right to be informed properly, not just having other people use false scare tactics on them. Knowledge is the key....

Freedom1990

Actually I did read back through the entire thread, and didn't see one single reference in regards to smoking pot for 1 week while detoxing from heroin. Maybe I'm just not seeing it?

I don't use false scare tactics. I just use my own personal life experiences, and what I've observed in the 22+ years I've been around the rooms of recovery.