TMZ

I am glad you are weening off. Just keep your DR apraised of your feelings.
It's really good just remember it took a long time to get here don't rush the end. Take it slow, you can do it.

Cleanwithdreams7

Update:

Usually I would be weaning down by this time(about a month later since the last wean).

However, this month I have decided to take an extra month break from weaning down and just keep enjoying my life the way it is and let myself catch up even more to.

I was starting to get sick of getting used to the new dose a week or two before I weaned again every month, and than having to do it all over again each time. So I decided to give myself an extra month this time around to be used to my new dose and let my body catch up and relax more as well.

I think this was a great idea and I'm glad I didn't have to wean down again this soon. Because this last wean seemed to effect my life a little bit more for the first week or so.

I've been really enjoying life and it feels good that this next month is going to be very enjoyable throughout as well.

Since I've stopped smoking Pot(91 days ago), this is the first time I haven't been weaning down on my dose since. And I gotta say, life feels pretty amazing this way. Everything has been going really good and I'm glad it's going to be a good month to .

My Doctor suggested that I can go down next time by two mgs instead if I wanted and see if it is easier for me. I might consider this and see how it feels(compared to the five mgs), and see how much more comfortable it is.

The last wean seemed the hardest, but I'm thinking the extra month will give my body tons of time to cath up. So I haven't completely decided yet if I want to go down by 5mgs or 2mgs the next time around.

I guess I will think about it. I am in no rush at all and I think if I can make it even more comfortable next time that might be a better idea(especially for my job and life in general). Maybe I will go down by 2mgs the next time, and the time after that consider going down by 5mgs instead or just by two mgs again, depending on how the month with the 2mgs instead goes. I haven't completely decided yet.

I will update than and let you know what I have decided.

I also wanted to give a big thank you to everyone for all the help and support! I appreciate it a lot!

FT

Hi cleanwithdreams,

I just read your story, and I think it is remarkable that you decided to get clean.

I hope you progress even further with your plans. I realize that some people stay on methadone or suboxone long term. I don't know if that will be you, but it far surpasses the quality (NOT) of life you had while at the peak of your opiate use.

Good luck to you my friend.

FT

Cleanwithdreams7

Thanks FT!!

I really appreciate it

Krissykaye

Hello cleanwithdreams7, I just read your story and I am happy to hear that you decided to get help with your opiate addiction and also happy to hear that methadone is helping you do that. I am on it also, I go to a clinic on monday's to get my doses for the week and every other monday I have counciling and I also put together an ma group, which stands for methadone anonymous. I tried to come off of methadone really fast and then stopped and started to taper of 2 mg a week instead of 5mg a week. When you start to feel symptoms of w/d I had them bump me back up to where I was before I felt them. I let my body catch up to my brain and after a couple of weeks, start to come down as you feel comforatable doing so. It's not a race, so don't feel like you have to hurry the process. Also it's going to be different after you stop methadone, you may have thoughts you never had while on it. My suggestion is you get a plan, if your not working towards recovery your working towards a relapse. I can't smoke marijuana because if I want to get takehomes and not have to go to the clinic daily, I had to quit. I thought it was going to be hard, and it is at times. But the more I went to meetings and talked about my recovery with other addicts and my councilor the easier it got to not smoke it anymore. I don't have alot of hard feelings about smoking and alot of that comes from the fact that Iam 29 yrs old and have been sober 18 months from everything including pot and 2 years from opiates on dec. 4th and I never lost myself just smoking like I did when I did opiates. But I don't think I would of learned what I learned without giving it up but everybody's different. I just wanted to suggest that you make a plan now, have a list of ppl you can call if you have any bad thoughts, get a sponsor or somebody that can mentor you because that will help you learn the principals of trust in the recovery process, you know addict helping addict. Good luck to you! I am new to the forum also but not new to recovery.

FT

Hi Krissykaye, and welcome to the forum.

I don't post on "this side" very much, but I seriously want to support everyone who is working towards recovery from opiates and other substances. There is no one best way for everyone, and I believe people should be supported in the method that works for them as an individual. Cleanwithdreams' story is a remarkable one, and very inspirational for others that coming out of an active addiction like that can be done.

Good luck to everyone here. I think you will find, as you may already have, that posting is therapeutic. At the same time, it helps everyone else who comes here to find help. Many many people never post, but still get hope and inspiration from what goes on here.

So, keep coming back. It's great you are here.

FT

Cleanwithdreams7

Thanks Krissykaye!!

I really do still need to do a lot before I come off completely.

A lot of the stuff that you mentioned I have been planning to do for a while. But you see, I work a lot and am busy a lot of the time. And it seems like I just keep pushing it off.

I never got serious about NA or meetings like that before in my entire life to be honest. I've gone to a couple in my life and never even speaked once during them really. It was when I was still an active user on short acting Opiates, quit a LONGGG time ago.

But I have been planning to start going to them before I get off of the Methadone for a while.. it just hasen't happened though. I keep pushing it forward and not paying too much attention to that stuff. I guess I'm waiting for a more conveniant time, and I like to relax on the couple days off a week that I do get. But I think I should start taking it more seriously and really consider starting somewhere in that area soon.

For the past year, since I started the Methadone, I have been researching different sites and other peoples experiences with Methadone, etc.. Looking at different things that I think could help me once I'm off and gathering as much information and tips from others on the Methadone and detox etc., as possible. A lot of the stuff that I thought was important I have on paper now and keep it all together.

I have never even heard of an MA group in my area. But I was thinking about giving NA a try and maybe I should start going on one of my days off once a week or something to start off with. I guess I was waiting for a time that seemed 'better' or more conveniant to go. But I don't think there's ever gonna be that much better of a time. I think I just have to just start doing those kind of things and stop waiting or pushing it off. And I'll probably start gaining insight from the meetings after trying them for a while, which will hopefully help keep me coming back.

I'm not sure if I'm actually gonna tell them I'm on Methadone though, as I have heard some of the people in the groups are not to fond of Methadone users. And I have also heard of people not being aloud to speak for being on Methadone in some! So that leaves me a little unsure. That is why MA sound like an awesome group! And that's really cool that you go to an MA group!!

I also want a sponsor, I have never had one of those either! Which I guess I can get from one of the groups once I get to know them more. I have a counsellor type person that I can talk to already when things go wrong or when I just want to talk. But to be honest, they don't even know that much about the drug or my situation and they aren't really able to help me that much and give me the right support in that area. They don't have personal experience themselves and it's only their job to do what they're doing. I don't even see them too much anymoire actually, as sometimes I get the feeling they don't really care. And it has seemed like they try and hurry me along in their 'time frame' every time I have gone and sometimes aren't even listening.

I also want to start going to some kind of addictions foundation program or something like that in my city, and learn more about the addiction and different areas from professionals before I come off as well. I have to book ahead, sometimes even months ahead. So I guess I should check that out. I want to learn what the route of the problem was/why I was really using to begin with, and deal with that before I come off as well. I want to get more tools for my recovery, see I really don't have that much except for my own personal experiences and the internet. I reallt think that place could help me in those areas and maybe the meetings can to.

I really want to try the 12 steps to, as I have never gotten into that either. I have heard good things, and maybe it can do some good for me.

I mean I have searched more the anyone can imagine all over the internet and have filled my mind with as much knowledge as I can. But in my opinion, there's only so much that you can get from the internet.

Thanks for bringing this up actually Krissykaye. I really needed to hear that and be reminded by someone other than myself. Before it was kinda just burried in the back of my mind and I wasn't paying attention to the fact that I probably should start doing all of those things, sooner than later.

I really think I should put more of an effort in. Afterall it is my sobriety and my life. And from what I have learned, my sobriety always comes first.

Sometimes I don't like talking to certain Doctors or my counsellor about some of the stuff I'm going through, because they don't seem to fully understand and they don't have the personal experience either to actually grasp a lot of the stuff I'm talking about. They seem to make it seem way easier than it actually is.

Like the last time I saw my counsellor, he made me feel like it's all just a 'rip it off like a bandaid' type of thing. Like seriously, I'd rather not risk relapsing all because somebody made me go faster than I wanted to go!

I was told that he thought on the low doses(like 5mgs and under), I will probably have to go down 1mg every 3 days until I'm off! And that he thought it wouldn't make much of a difference at that point if I did it slower or not!!! I was told that he thought that's how everyone did it that got their Methadone from them. And that he thinks the Doctor probably can't even prescribe me 1mg for longer than that!

See I don't go to a clinic, I am prescribed it by a Doctor that specializes in addiction, and I have been seeing one of his "counsellors' instead of him for pretty much the whole time I have been on it. The Doctor himself has a busy schedule. And just now I'm really starting to realize that that counsellor doesn't seem to know what he's talking about so much. That whole situation where I was told that it wont make a difference to go slower or faster really pissed me off and left me in a pretty ****** mood for the rest of the day. It actually scared me even more from coming off. Like geeze why should I even go to someone like that for help? It all just kinda hit me recently.

So I made an appointment with the Doctor. And when I see the Doctor I am going to ask all of that stuff myself and see if I actually have to come off of it that fast when I'm at that point. I'm thinking the user should be able to come off however fast they want to or need to. Not just what the person who's not even on the Methadone thinks they should. I mean I should be able to come off when I'm comfortable enough and feel I'm ready to. Afterall I know what I'm feeling, their not the ones feeling it or going through such hell.

What did that counsellor mean by it wont make a difference!? That's just stupid talk.

Than I started to mention PAWS and stuff like that to the counsellor. And he put in, that I should be able to work normally and after a month after jumping at 0, I'll feel the exact way that I do now and I'll have no problems whatsoever and can work and stuff, and everything will just be peachy. That seemd so stupid to me, I mean that's not how things work. Do they really think it's that easy of a task?

After that mess I actually decided that I don't want to go to that person for advice or help anymore, they really seemed to make me feel worse in the end. And that's what I mean by Doctors or counsellors that don't even know that they're talking about! I HATE it.

It almost makes me want to specialize in addiction after I'm done with this stuff, and help other Methadone patients and addict, just because I have the personal experience, and wouldn't treat them like I have no clue what they're going through, and would know it's not an easy task. I would offer sympathy and would let them come off as slow as they needed and actually let them do it right.

I mean a bandaid stops hurting right when it's ripped off. Methadone can keep hurting for weeks or sometimes months! And don't even get me started on the PAWS.

Ugh, sorry for rambling, I just really had to get all of that out.

Anyways, thank you for mentioning the meetings and stuff. I'm actually going to make more of an effort to start checking some out and working on that area more.

Afterall, it would be nice to be able to speak to a sponsor who atcually knows what I'm going through. And isn't only in it for the money like some people.

I appreciate the replies and all the support everyone.

Cleanwithdreams7

And you're right FT, posting can actualy be really therapeutic. It feels better to let certain things out as well, especially to people who understand so well.

I really appreciate all of your replies and support FT!

I never realy thought of my story as remarkable.

Sometimes it's easy for me to have a lot of negative energy built up when it comes to such a thing, and sometimes a lot of shame to. But I shouldn't beat myself up about it anymore than this addiction already has. And on that note, noone should.

And after hearing that comment, you sure made me feel better about things.

I really do hope some of my posts help people along the way. That is one of the reasons I started posting in the first place, and continued as well.

I know how much I wanted help when I was struggling with my addiction to street Opiates. I was going nowhere fast and loosing everything and everyone I ever cared about. And it made me realize how much people there are, and how much of them could be going through the same thing I was, and could be wishing for someones, anyones help or support during such a tough time.

I mean Methadone can be tough at times to, but it's not always a CONSTANT struggle like it was when I was using the short-acting Opiates. They were so much more bad than good and I really hated how my life was turning out back than.

Especially now when I'm taking a break from weaning down for a month or so, things aren't really bad(most of the time anyways). I mean everyone has bad days every once in a while. But when you're a hardcore junkie, and you're spending all of your cash, possessions, and everyone elses cash to boot, just so you can feel normal, I can't even explain how much bad days that kinda person can have.

A two and a half year binge, just seemed like one long terrible two and a half years. Just a long nightmare that I never thought would end.

And I know none of us mean to end up where we do either. That's the thing.

I hope some of my posts help people or give people hope. and I hope other peoples posts will do the same.

In my opinion we all should support eachother, I mean who better than the people who know exactly what it's like and are even going through it as we speak?

For anyone having a tough time and reading this, SERIOUSLY hang in there. It most certainly does and will get better. Never give up. And always know that there's a light and the end of that tunnel. And if we really WANT to get there, we WILL.

It doesn't stay bad forever.

ohdeeuhm

Hey cleanwithdreams7, sorry I never came back to post after my first post MONTHS ago. I had actually forgotten about making that first post! Haha, anyhow, I hope things are going well for you. IN a few days (Nov 14) I will hit my 3 year mark on being opiate FREE! It's hard to believe it's been 3 years but in retrospect it feels like a lifetime. I do want to clear something up though -- I'm still on Suboxone, I've just gone down over the years. I'm in a "Long Term Therapy" program and to be honest I have no idea when I'll be done with it. Thankfully I got a good job a month after I started my path to a clean life and the insurance pays for my meds. This is the longest I've ever held a job in my life thanks to therapy and suboxone.

One thing is for sure, I've gained quite a bit of weight since I started this 3 years ago. For the first year and a half I didn't go anywhere but work and home and all that sitting around with no exercise had finally caught up to me. I'm working on that though with the help of new friends and new hobbies. I don't skate anymore but I picked up R/C racing almost 2 years ago and it keeps me outside a lot and it keeps me busy. I think having a hobby you love really helps get through the worst of the "reintegration" into the real world.

Anyhow, keep up the good work.

Cleanwithdreams7

Thanks Ohdeeuhm.

I'm doing pretty good right now. I came to a realization the other week, which saved me a relapse on kept me on the right road.

The original plan was for me to stay on the Methadone for at least as long as I was using the other Opiates that got me here in the first place(2.5 years), before starting to wean down. But I kinda got scared of being on the Methadone for so long and thought it would be wise to wean off sooner than later. I guess I have read and heard a lot of negative opinions about it, and I didn't really feel that accepted at the time. But really, It's a way better choice than using the other Opiates I used to be into. And I guess, why should it matter what other people think? When it's my life that's on the line, and my life that's been improving since I've went on the Methadone. I guess it should only matter what I think, and what's best for me right now. I just don't think a lot of people understand how much problems an Opiate addiction can really bring, and how hard it actually is to stop using for some people.

I used to be on 90mgs a day and at that dose I had some side-effects. The sweating was pretty rediculous, and I don't think I needed to be on that high of a dose. I kinda told myself I would go down to the lowest dose possible and than do what I have to do than. When I was on 40mgs a day(I stayed on 40 for about two months), I found that when I woke up I felt pretty sick before I got my dose and I HAD to get my dose ASAP. I also had thoughts that I normally wouldn't have after a dose and throughout the day. Thoughts that I didn't really want to have. It was almost like the addict was there. I was not getting held properly and things were getting dangerous in my opinion.

I told my Doctor and my counsellor that I kinda think I was rushing things a little bit, and they both agreed with me that I was. They said they kinda had to let me go through my own process and that they couldn't really tell me not to wean down if I wanted to.

In my opinion, the way I was heading I might have been heading for a relapse.. I mean at 40mgs I was no longer at the blocking dose, or the dose that blocks other Opiates euphoria. This fact made some cravings surface from time to time, and I really don't want to use that other crap ever again, so I kinda just held myself there. But the thoughts did get annoying.

Also, I started to think about it, and I really haven't even done that much of anything since I've gotten on the Methadone to actually give me a fighting chance for once I get off. No preperation(meetings, programs, etc.), or anything really. NADA. I mean I've quit using drugs(all of them except Methadone). I stopped smoking and drinking, and even stopped having caffeine, and am slowly weaning down on my NRT as well. But I haven't really stopped all of that for that long when I think about it. And I think it's kinda silly for me to want to get this all over with so fast, and tell myself everythings cured because I've been doing well. When in relaity that's not how things work. It's just to risky and I'm not willing to relapse.

I mean Methadone pretty much saved my life, and I feel like I shouldn't stop what saved my life, especially when I haven't built that much of a life yet for myself as it is. I still have debts from my addiction, I still wanna buy a lot of stuff for myself, I still wanna get a liscence, I still wanna get my own place, I still wanna pick what I want to go into and eventually go to school, etc.. And now I'm thinking I'd rather do what I want to do with my life first(before weaning down), and get myself to where I want to be. And not do it the other way around, and put my life on hold, and than do all of that stuff afterwards, while risking a relapse inbetween. I still need to build and repair my life, and doing that on a dose of Methadone that doesn't hold me was a bad choice on my part. I started wenaing down only half a year in the program(one year now). I figured since I haven't used for half a year I should be able to handle things, but when things started surfacing again that's when I realised that I was wrong.

I don't know what I was thinking really. I guess I kinda scared myself into getting off so soon.

I really don't want to take the chance of my addiction resurfacing. And when I woke up, before I get my dose, I can kinda felt that addict part of me somewhat there if you know what I mean. I know that when I was on a proper dose of Methadone everything seemed "normal" to me. No cravings, no trying to potentiate my Methadone, no unwanted thoughts, just good.

I also was researching some stuff about Methadone and statistics. And one of the things is from this site: Methadone - dose, effects, therapy, withdrawal, drug, person, people, used

It talks about the recomended dosage. It says, "The minimum effective dose is 60 mg daily taken at once or in divided doses. Patients on lower maintenance doses have recently been studied and have shown shorter treatment retention and have continued heroin use. If patients are stable on methadone for six months or longer, their methadone dose should not be increased by 33% or over, as this sudden increase in dose is associated with an increase in craving for the drugs that were previously abused. Some heroin patients need to be on doses up to 180 mg daily to provide adequate maintenance and to prevent relapse."

I also would like to learn better ways to cope and deal with certain situations and stress before I start coming off as well.

I also think I should be coimpletely sober from everything for a few years before weaning down as well, and not just a few months. Cause sometimes before I got my dose I would even start craving Pot or other drugs that I have already quit, and I seriously don't want to do that crap again either. Some nights I even had drug dreams again. I new the 40mgs a day was not doing it's job.

I mean I want to do this right, and I don't want to have to do it again. So I decided to follow what my Doctor thought was best at first, and to stay on a proper dose for at least as long as I was using the other Opiates for(2.5-3 years).

This time I'm going to do the work and the preperation. I'm gonna go to meetings and therapy and stuff and actually focus on what's important. Instead of just thinking that I know it all and that I can handle everything, because that's the kind of attitude that got me here in the first place.

So a couple days ago I had my dose upped to 50mgs a day. I've been feeling a lot better already about things and my cravings have lessoned. My Doctor told me that the dose that completely gets rid of cravings is 60-70mgs a day.

So next week(a week after I last upped), he'd upping me to 60mgs a day and I'm hoping that 60 will be perfect for me to stablize on. This means no cravings, no morning sickness, and not too much side-effects either. I also figure since 60mgs is the minimum blocking dose for blocking other Opiates, this should be a good dose to be on when it comes to cravings as well. Like I said before, last time when I was on 90mgs a day, I found that i had too much side-effects(sweating, etc.). Back than I still thought that more was better. But through experience I've learnd that too much is not good, but neither is too little, when it comes to Methadone.

I'm hoping that the 60 will be "just right' for me. I will update when I go up and let you know if things are better.

Whatever the case may be, I would much rather be on Methadone than the other short-acting Opiates any day. And if I ever ended up having to be on it for life, well than it would be a much better life than living on the other Opiates that destroyed my life for life.

Today is also my 119th day without any Marijuana, and my 83rd day without a Cigarette, and things are going well(aside from the stuff that was happening on 40mgs of Methadone). It is also my 8th day without any caffeine and I'm feeling pretty good about that to.

So now the only medication/drug that I take is the Methadone .

I will update sometime in the near future.

FT

Hi Cleanwithdreams,

I am not a methadone expert, but I do know that it has been used with good success in Europe and the Netherlands to keep people off street heroin, and it has also been shown to reduce crime related to drug acquisition, of which there are many types.

If you ever have self doubts because of what somebody else does or says you should be doing, just remember how far you have come since you started all this.

You are very right about not rushing things. Time seems to move slowly in recovery, and our clean time is not as vast as we think. In an eye blink, we can be right back where we were. Allow yourself to settle into a productive lifestyle, and you can work with your docs over time if you want to wean off. Rushing things risks relapse, and you don't want that.

I've read your story, and I think you are doing a fantastic job.

FT

Cleanwithdreams7

Thanks FT!

I really appreciate the support .

Cleanwithdreams7

Thinking back to how I felt when I was down to 40mgs a day, I really did not like the feeling of old cravings surfacing up when I was on too low of a dose of Methadone, and it kinda scared me to be honest. But at the same time it kinda made me realize why I am on the Methadone in the first place. And this time around I will not forget it.

I'm glad I chose to go up before I did anything stupid. And I'm glad I was able to recognize the signs/symptoms before things went any further than they did. Using the stuff that got me here in the first place would just be too much to risk. And I would never want to throw my life away again just to get temporarily high.

Update:
I went up to 60mgs this morning, from 50mgs. I think this dose is gonna be perfect for me, and I don't think I'm gonna need to go up any higher than this. I'm already feeling so much more "normal" than I used to be feeling. I think I have found the right spot.. At least I hope so.

Like I said before, when I first went on the Methadone, I went up way too high(up to 90mgs a day). I still used to think that more was better back than. But on the 90mgs I had wayy too much side-effects(rediculous sweating, etc.). And I kinda had a feeling that I didn't actually need that much.

But right now I think that 60mgs a day is gonna be perfect for me. After being on it for a little over a year, I'm pretty sure I have FINALLY found my place with the Methadone. So far, 60 mgs feels not too low, but at the same time, not too high. I hope it will continue to hold me "just right", and I guess I will just have to see.

I'm glad that I know now that having too much isn't a good thing though. And this time I can actually use it for what it's ment to be used for.

At the same time, it helps that now I am actually completely sober from EVERYTHING else as well. Because when I first went on the Methadone, I was still using Pot and some other stuff to. But now I've given up smoking Pot, smoking Cigarettes, drinking Alcohol, and every other drug imaginable as well. I've even stopped having Caffeine, and because of that my doses seem to last longer than they did when I still had the Caffeine in my diet. I have actually read that Caffeine can make you run through your dose faster. Just something to think about.

I will update things in about a week and post whether or not my new dose is still working perfectly for me. I have a good feeling about it though .

FT

Hey Clean,
I think any naysayers, if you have any, need to remember what Methadone was designed for. It was not designed to be abused. You are not abusing it. You are using it for its intended purpose -- to keep you off other drugs.

I'm glad you are journaling your progress here. If you haven't thought of printing your threads and putting them into a notebook, you might want to do that. You are very articulate, and I think your posts help a lot of people who could benefit from this route.

I also like the research you have done on maximizing the effect of Methadone, including avoidance of things that affect its metabolism.

You are doing a great job. I see no reason for you to even think about what you will do about the future, in terms of weaning off Methadone. I would much rather see you stay on it for the long term than risk the alternative. I don't know if you've read much about the European programs, but my guess is that their track record is pretty long and in support of long term Methadone use.

Anyone who reads me on other threads knows I am mostly a supporter of self-determination and getting clean any way you can. I did cold turkey (almost) off oxycodone. I totally recognize that isn't going to work for everyone. In my journey into and out of addiction, I've done a lot of my own research. Science is a long way away from discovering an answer to the complex problem of addiction. I like to read about it, and I like to educate others about it. Much like you are doing here.

Keep it up. We need you.

FT

Cleanwithdreams7

Thanks FT!