Dee74

I really hope you can learn to detach TW cos you can drive yourself crazy thinking about all this...and ultimately the only person you can really change here is yourself.

I've never been an IV user so I have no idea, sorry.
Hopefully others will chime in.

D

NYADDICTGIRL

Ok i have been using herion for the past 4 years Last september i was put in to a rehab and using suboxone but not even after one day of being out o f rehab and on suboxone did that stop me from getting high! i put my mom and family threw hell! and overdosed a month later from fentnyl and oxycotin! i would just trade and sell my suboxone for dope. i never shot up suboxone but i thought about it and seen plenty of people doing it ... YOU DO GET HIGH FROM SHOOTING SUBS! and the only way you would get sick is if you took any opiates less then 12 hours b4 thating a suboxone! Now about the bruises and scars... bruises you only get a couple of days after you IVed a drug ... they dont stay on you if they are yellowed bruises that means he shot up a couple days b4 that if they are black it was prob a week or a little bit less ... Now i am still perscriped subs but i do still use dope a couple times a month. But usally the sub doctor **** test you b4 they will write the script for subs to make sure ur staying clean .. but opiates only stay in ur system for 2-3 days .. You seem to know alot of things already and ur def. not stupid! your son should feel so lucky to have some one in his life who is still by his side.. cause many addicts already burned their bridges! But the beginning of the month of october i was given the films strips but i feel they work so much better then the pills they dissolve in half the time and work so much better.. i heard there is no way around misusing them, but give a addict sometime and im sure they willl work around that and find away.. i have alot of exoeriance if u have any more questions dont hesitate to ask! Keep your head up mama!

treadingwater

__________________________________________________ _____________



I really appreciate all your input. Yes we have been on this merry go round for way too long. It is sad to say my son evidentally hasn't hit rock bottom.
That is what scares the crap out of me. Right now he is so definiant and thinks he knows everything and once again has fell back into the I don't care attitude.
He wants us out of his business ....all the signs are there.
It has become very apparent this last month that our son is back to drinking alcohol and of course he sees nothing wrong with it. He can be drunk...and denies he's drunk. He doesn't measure his drinking like we do....so YES he is drunk...all part of the denial. Plus he is on suboxone, so I am sure it probably amplifies the buzz.
I can't tell you how disappointed I am and angry and scared for him.
I can not believe that he is going down this path again. He will be 22 the 1 of Dec.
He will be receiving a small settlement...You'd think HE thinks he won the lottery. So he will be out of our house once he gets it, just like last time.
He left....put all his money into drugs...and was broke in know time.
He says he will switch to methadone since it is cheaper.

It is so hard to let go. My husband and I have told him AGAIN...this time if he chooses to leave we will not be running to his aid when things get rough. I am glad you have been able to overcome your addiction it gives me hope when I hear others doing well.

It is so hard to let go......

tsmba

Have you tried going to Al-Anon/Nar-Anon? You cannot do it for your loved one, but you can learn to take care of yourself!

treadingwater

I have not been to either, but while my son was in treatment I did go to the parent meetings. I also belong to another online parent forum, which I have found extemely helpful.
This week my son switched over from suboxone to methadone.
He really does not have any intention at this time of tapering. I can only hope as time goes by and he matures that he will want better for himself....MAYBE GROW A BRAIN.
Right now his mindset is why would I stress myself out trying to ween of suboxone or now methadone.
I just hope that as time goes by he does not start to manipulate and find ways around his methadone to get high.
He is young and his peers are not the best. Even the kids that aren't terribly mishaving are not a good influence. But than again my son doesn't need the company of others when he is getting high. He definitely likes his alone time, which I do not find healthy either. At least at this point in his life alone time has not been a good thing.

Dee74

I think the point about alanon is - we can't control what someone else does, no matter how much we want to - but you can look after ourselves and watch what we do - we can learn to handle stuff better...for own benefit.

I've never been - it's not applicable to me - but I know it's helped many of my closest friends here - and I hope that you'll consider it TW

D

PalmTrees

hi treadingwater.... hope things are going better for you this week.... just wanted to let you know i was thinking of you and your son. hang in there. palmtrees

SpidermanTango

I think dosing the strips to your son is the best idea I ever heard. Not only should you do it to ration it out as directed, but also make sure he takes it every day as well so it will block any opiates from his system and then you KNOW exactly what he is on. Very good idea. Look the kid is an addict - it isnt the end of the world and certainly isnt your fault - so dont take too personally the way he is behaving - I understand exactly why you are concerned, I just mean dont let it hurt your feelings. But he clearly needs help. Maybe a routine is just what he needs. Then reduce it slowly and he'll never notice the difference and give his mind time to clear out. He'll be okay - know it. With a mom like you his chances for true recovery are 10 x what mine for example would be. I did it alone.

tsmba

I went back to your OP and noticed that your son is 21yrs old. As an adult and addict, he is responsible for both his behavior and his recovery. Having a parent dispense his medications isn't really responsible behavior, and if he cannot handle being on the meds without abusing them, he may well need more structured treatment.

treadingwater

Just an update.
My son switched from suboxone to methadone the last week of October thinking it would be more economical. (SHORT OF QUITTING HAHAHA).
Now being on the methadone he has decided he does not like it at all and is ready to switch back to suboxone.
Too I think having to drive to the clinic 6 days a week is starting to wear him out. "I knew it would." Also, methadone isn't that much cheaper than suboxone. He is paying $15. per day and the clinic said they would work with him on the cost and go down to $12. per day??? I don't know.
I just wish he could quit it all. He has NO intention of weaning off subxone, he wants maintenance. At this point he says maintenance for life. I will let it be, when I tell him how I feel it just makes him irritable. He is going back to school and feels like he is on track.

As always thanks for everyone's input.

Dee74

Continued best wishes for you - and your son, TW
D

JMFburns

tw,

My 30 yr old son takes Suboxone and his housemate takes Methadone. In my opinion I'd vote for the Suboxone over the Methadone. I've heard of more cases of "abusing" and getting a "high" from the Methadone than from Suboxone. I don't know, maybe it's just me wanting to believe my son is doing "ok".

Anyway . . . get to AlAnon or NarAnon if there are meetings in your area. You can't beat the face-to-face support. I go to a meeting of both and read/post here. The more you can focus on you, your life, your growth, your recovery and the less time you spend worrying about your son and trying to "control" him, the better off you'll be.

IMO!

keepinon

If he is drinking he is not sober nor working a program. This will all continue on precisely as long as you let it. The advice of most of the recovering addicts and us over on the f/f forum was to go to alanon..is there some reason you are unwilling to go?

tsmba

Great reply! None of us can pick and choose our drugs, ie: be in "recovery" while using something that "isn't a problem". There is no real middle ground in the long run.

ThruHellNBack

[QUOTE=treadingwater;2713643]I don't know what to think. I have been told that you can NOT inject suboxone and get high, that it will put you into full withdrawl. I have read on other forums that say that you sure CAN. My son is 21 and a (I want to say recovering alcoholic and drug addict). He has been on suboxone for the past 3.5 months, 8 mg a day. He seemed to being doing well on it. The other evening I confronted him because he was not himself, he seemed to be on something, and was.
He swears he injected his suboxone for a high, that the 8mg were not working as affectively when he took it the correct way. He told me to drug test him if I didn't believe him.
I am at a loss for words. My hopes have been dashed and I am back to square one and no longer trust him. The little trust I had is now gone.

I need to know if anyone on this forum has ever injected suboxone, if so, what was the high like in comparison to taking the suboxone the prescribed way, under your tongue? How long is the high last? How do you feel once the high has left? My son's behavior was so different the other evening from when he took it orally. HE WAS visually high, wobbly, loud, angry and disrespectful, you name. It was just like the old days had returned.
He also said that he had taken his prescribed sleep med too. He takes tralazone? and gabapenten to sleep. I don't know what to believe!!!
That's why I'm hoping that someone on this form can tell me the physical affects of injecting suboxone, besides getting sick.

I just have a lot of questions. I don't want to go down this dark road again.

Ironically the next day he had a doctors appointment.
I didn't know what to do because I knew if I blew the whistle he would be taken off his suboxone, so I kept my mouth shut.
I told my son if he had questions about his suboxone he need to talk to his doctor not me.
It turns out that the doctor increased his dose to 16mg a day and instead of pills he gave him the new film strips that have just come out.
I have decided that if I pay for this precription $$$ I plan to dispense this drug to him. I will literally watch him pop that stip into his mouth and see it disolve or he will not get it that day.

I am sorry for such a long vent.


Hi, I'm sorry for what you and your son are going through.. Without sounding too scientific and complicated, I want to tell you about this exact issue that I myself have faced for quite some time. The fixation of using a needle and the association we as humans build with our brains is the real reason for this behavior. With needles people in general do not need a reward necessarily for this, for the reward is the act of shooting. People who are accustomed to injection rely on the mechanism of injection itself, whether one is using suboxone Vs. Black Tar heroin. Yes, the used would raither have heroin because suboxone no matter how high a dose, to a tolerant opiate user, will Not produce a opiate like high. Only people with low tolerances to opiates and opioids will feel a state of altered mind. I myself have used Suboxone for several years now but have not been able to kick the action of injection, even though the reward as far as becoming high is completely absent, and a high is non existent, in its effect. Regardless of the fact that its is used as injection, the benefits of using suboxone over opiates is tremendous. Suboxone has a "roof limit" on much the drug will intoxicate./ A person like me or your son, could inject virtually many suboxone without risking overdose or poisoning.
As well you cannot use other opiates or opiods while on Suboxone because it overrides the mechanism of other drugs like it. The risk is injecting or administering suboxone while already under the influence of opiate like compounds, it causes instant mild to sever withdrawals that last approximately a half an hour, but are not life threatening. I do not condone injecting anything unless it is from a physician, but it is not a reason to distrust or dislike. Again there is no gain or reward for shooting suboxone, and unfortunately most people learn the hard way. It is a phase and will eventually come to end as is mine. I have never broken laws or morals while on suboxone no matter how it has been administered, truly it has saved my life. Always use clean needles and equipment, never share with ANYONE and learn how to inject properly so that you do not damage yourself. You cant stop it but you can educate!

mammasita

My son is currently taking Suboxone and it is very expensive, he has no insurance so his dad and I pay for it. I pray every day that this works for him. He is going to prison in two weeks and wants to be off heroin.

mammasita

Part of the problem is that regardless of whether the abuser is 21 yrs old physically, they are probably 15 mentally and should be treated as one. My son is 32 and is about 16 mentally because of all the drugs he has done.

mialicious

Hi treadingwater. I'm sorry to hear of your troubles with your son. It's a tightrope walk when loving an addict, truly.
My experience with suboxone never lead me to shoot it. But I know of 2 people that did. They used to shoot heroin, and I think still do. I never understood why because, heroin was cheaper and actually got you high. But one of them told me shooting it did get her high. Sad part is its not 100% water soluble like pure oxy/opiates and residue gets left in blood. Anyways, it became their drug of choice for the greater part of a year...Maybe it was easily obtained? I don't know.

If you take a high enough dose of suboxone while you still have opioids in your system, you will get precipitated withdraws. Meaning, suboxone immediately tosses the opioid off the receptors...forcing the worst agony imaginable. It's detox x 100.
I also know that the many times I tried to quit using subs. I took subutex on the 18 hour and added suboxone in 2mg chunks on hours 20-28 until I didn't feel sick. But my afflicted and addicted self would have preferred dope.
I was able to shoot enough heroin up to get off, past the agonist and did each time.
I always wondered why do both? Subs block your high to some degree, but leave your system fast.
You have to be in withdrawal to start subs, but you can still push your opioid tolerance upward with your oxy/opiates of choice after on subs. It doesn't get you "as high" though.
It's a good plan to administer them to him, that way you know the subs are in his body, blocking the opiate receptors. If you don't see him take it, he very well may doing his drug of choice instead. But that trust tightrope again, may be tested. You are a great mom, I must say both you and your son are in my prayers. Stay strong.

I shot heroin for 4 years, before that, I orally took dr prescribed high mg oxy. I tried to quit heroin with suboxone/subutex but I had such easy access and an abundance of heroin @ that time...which i may be why I was unsuccessful to quit with subs. I was on methadone maintenance treatment since 1/29/12, and have been clean of all opiates/oxy for exactly 2 weeks today.

soberfish417

i was a opiate user, and drank. in my opinion alcohol is a drug. if you get clean you have to quit everything. if you drink only eventually it will take you back to the drugs. it always does lol its like changing seats on the titanic! I hit rock bottom and im ten months sober. I went through a treatment center tho and yes they gave me saboxone but its how you take it. i have it given to me everyday (4mg once a day) and i dont abuse it. also i am tapering off of it, you cant make a addict do anything treadingwater. im telling you that as a recovering terrible addict and alcoholic. bruises last about a month at most and i hate to tell you this but he is lying to you. Its time for you to put your foot down. School is no longer a option for him as you pay for it, money, a roof over his head, all gone. If he wants to leave, let him but he moves out first. thats what it takes to hit rock bottom and your have to be stern in the right way. he needs to hit that point where he gives up and says yes help me. This is not going to be easy as nothing in life is but he is lucky to have good parents to support him.. i had to pay for rehab out of my pocket lol shoot..... :-/
ive also delt with a addict that went to a rehab, didnt get what she wanted and left saying the same thing.The min it gets hard they give up... its how we are... if you give in they loose..... stay strong and feel free to message me if any questions

chrisb245

I'll give you my little sub story. I abused them for about three months. Ived the strips for about the last month. It is very easy and very dangerous to iv them. Me being the addict I am, I could not control the use, nor could I taper down. If Im in addictive addiction and there are drugs around, I will use.

Since I could tapper, I quit cold turkey. The result was about 16 days of hellish w/d and many more weeks of paws to come.

It's been 21 days off of them and life is getting good. Thank you for sharing hugs to you and your fam!