fini

Tatsy,
i am certain there are misunderstandings here, and maybe at some later date they will become more apparent.

Fusion

Hi Fini, I think we're all just applying our personal best endeavours to guide and assist others, based upon our personal experiences and understandings. That's all any of us can do.

Edited to add: Fini, I'm sorry for calling you a 'spokesperson' when I was still upset. That comment was unwarranted on reflection, and I apologise. Having read back, I believe you were trying to help and I thank you for that.

MesaMan

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Great Thread, Nons, and I appreciate your thoughtful OP. The climbing number of Thread Views, and the thoughtful Posts here, speak to how interesting this Topic is. I'll loop back to post now what I thought of immediately when reading it. This has about nothing to do with the Literature you were handed, or Recovery Methods. But, it does encompass such matters. I'm making a fully separate point, here.

'You will never get sober by simply deciding not to drink'

'Defeating your addiction requires building a substantial support network'.

In the Hard Sciences where I spent much of my Career until Early Retirement, we had this wry running joke. Absolute Statements, like the sentences above, were simply chuckled at. That was my reaction here a few Days ago, as well. Most of us dealt with the common Reality of shades-of-grey. Were someone to declare: 'My Mother's Home Cooking is the best in the World', you laughed off such claims. To rewrite the sentences above with realistic nuance, I would suggest:

'You possibly will never get Sober by simply deciding not to drink'

'Defeating your Addiction might require building a Support Network'.

There's a knock-on effect, and one I certainly apply to various 'absolutes' seen on Political Rooms on-line. When someone postulates silly absolutes, as the ones in the Literature you were given, I initially approach whatever follows with a great deal of skepticism - or flat-out disregard - because such unsupportable absolutes simply aren't credible. I've Bookmarked Logical Fallacies, and very occasionally link germane ones. Here's a List for interested Folks to sort through, if so inclined...

- Logical Fallacies -

I think what you did to approach your Therapist was a generous and knowledgeable bit of Public Service to the Recovery Community. I've started to see an Addictions Counselor to get some new ideas on Detachment in Social situations involving Alcohol, and to adapt more-effortlessly to a Drinking/Pot Smoking Spouse. Not a yuge deal, actually. I don't see any signs of 'absolutism' in my Shrink's approach, but will parrot your approach if I encounter untenable Practices. I'm calling what I'm doing 'Sobriety - Version 2.0'. I'm done Drinking, Now, the interesting aspects involve the nuances of Life In Drinking Culture. It's just a little challenge I can afford, and wanted to issue as a throw-down to myself ~3.5 Years in.
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fini

thanks, Tatsy, and i appreciate the apology for the 'spokesperson' comment.

as far as thoughts on the OP...yes, i'm always relieved when people can see their non- thinking perpetuation of falsehoods and are open to other perspectives. especially professionals who ought to be familiar with what their recommended material actually says.
i am not sure why you mentioned my step-stuff? it is irrelevant to the conversation at hand.
i do not agree that me making my prior comment is a diversion of the thread....i saw it as essential to clarify that you had a crucial misunderstanding of what Jeff had said, and then the misunderstanding persisted and was added to by GT's rearrangement of a couple of phrases...it's not possible to have a fruitful conversation when there is such misunderstanding.

i also want to say that i'm not actually always endeavoring to assist, though in general i am, and actually never want to guide.

i sometimes just post to express an opinion.

soberlicious

The term "self-centered" doesn't really makes sense in the above sentence. I would say that people who rely more on themselves and their learning abilities when they encounter a challenge have an internal locus of control , but that has nothing to do with whether they are self-centered or not.

Sociopaths don't "shun" external relationships, rather they view relationships more as something to engage in solely for their own personal gain. Lots of people with sociopathic tendencies are very social. Doing so casts a wider net for people they can manipulate for their own purposes.

PS...Non! I love everything about your OP!

JeffreyAK

It does, if you take it to mean what I intended, self-powered, as I consider myself to be, and not as a criticism as you appear to have presumed. But I'm not going to argue about semantics, surely there are more useful things to discuss in this sub-forum.

Nonsensical

I think JeffreyAK intends for us to plug in definition 2 and not definition 1.

Self-centered | Define Self-centered at Dictionary.com

I am now highly amused by plugging in definition 4, but I can't explain why.

Nonsensical

I often wonder which people do better:
Disbelieve the general applies specifically
or
Fervently believe the specific applies generally.

I observe both every day on this forum.

People show up and post I drink daily, I drink excessively, I black out, my wife is leaving me, etc., but I'm not sure I have a problem with alcohol. They cannot believe those general characteristics of a drinking problem apply specifically to them - and that they have a drinking problem.

Likewise, recovered people post I did X, Y, and Z to get sober and if you do it (right) it will work for you, too. (And the corollary - if it didn't work for you, you weren't doing it right.) What worked for them specifically surely applies to the general population.

At one time in my life I was ate up with the former - the general not applying to me specifically. I was terminally unique, as we say.

I try very hard not to be ate up with the latter.

JeffreyAK

Archaic, I like that one!

soberlicious

The term self-centered has several denotations, but is most frequently associated with definition number one in non's post. And it most certainly isn't a criticism anyway. "self-centered" is a term that has a generally accepted connotation and is certainly a valid term to use when applicable. It just didn't seem to me to apply to your point.

Discussing semantics is important for me because it leads to clarity. Words and their associated connotations is often why there is a break-down in communication. If you want your message to be clear, and as you intended, then semantics and word choice are important.

Ananda

I read this thread with interest. I see a counselor who has specialized a lot in addiction therapy. His take is - you know what will work for you, so lets find it.

I know that he counsels people who use 12 step programs as well as AVART SMART or any variety of other methods. He also does something that I think is called Martial Arts Therapy (for addiction and other stuff).

I hope everyone can find a counselor like I have. Part of it is that what works for me today may not tomorrow. That goes not just for staying sober but for any other aspect of my internal journey.

Thanks to all of you for sharing your thoughts! whether you know it or not ...

Algorithm

Jeffrey,

Rational Recovery does not encourage 'hanging around', even on their own forums -- the subscription, though inexpensive, eventually expires. The original RR forums were free, although Jack Trimpey resisted setting them up in the first place, but later relented. I imagine that he changed his mind on an open forum, either because RR couldn't handle the traffic, or more likely, because they didn't want people hanging around the forums forever.

Rational Recovery does not encourage proselytizing in order to recover from an addiction, either, but part of its mission is nevertheless to disseminate information on independent recovery from addiction through planned, permanent abstinence, and to make self-recovery a viable option to all addicted people everywhere.

AVRT is the lore of self-recovery in an educational format. It is a learned skill, and it can be taught. Jack and the folks at Rational Recovery are very good a teaching AVRT, but others can do so as well, provided that they don't run afoul of RR trademarks by charging fees for doing so in a professional capacity. Some of us here on SR simply like helping others to learn AVRT.

Some who were around back then, and who are still contributing, are possibly continuing what Terminally Unique started. Others may simply believe in the mission of Rational Recovery, and wish to make AVRT a viable option for addicted people everywhere.