Goodfellas

Hey y'all (:

Kinda shy - I have been an addict for about 12 years now and AVRT/ rational recovery particularly sounds incredible. I want to learn learn learn (which I'll do by reading post after post after post lol)

My question is this - how do I go about making a "big plan" when possible WD's are an issue --- as in going cold turkey from my substance of choice could* cause seizures.

Can I make a big plan after it seems "safe" so to speak (medically )


Thank you mucho for listening and I look forward to conversing with you all 🙂💯

freshstart57

Please, don't be shy, Goodfellas, you are most welcome here. There is a lot of support in these forums.

Making quitting conditional on achieving some reduced level of consumption is a mug's game, I feel. For many of us, a plan to taper was not much more than the plan to continue drinking or using. The mindset needs to be centered on never drinking or using again, regardless of any factor whatsoever. I think the percentages are with consulting with an MD for medical issues around ending your addiction and following that advice, with your Big Plan of unconditional sobriety firmly in mind.

See a doctor, and move forward. Life is so much better sober. I hope you keep posting, OK?

Goodfellas

Thank you For your response . I will definitely keep posting

About a 9 months ago i was in the hospital (unrelated ) and spoke to my doctor about this very issue and he advised a taper as the drug of choice (etizolam (benzo like) can cause nasty nasty seizures .


It's just now tho- that I want and WILL quit for good - I just don't want to end up having a seizure / possibly dying ?

I'm "on" a fairly moderate per day doseage. Nothing TO crazy and was told to decrease th amount by 1/2 every day- which would take about 2 weeks give or take from my estimations.


That being said - AVRT / rational recovery ... I dunno - I'm very drawn to it - I like the" I will NEVER do this or that drug / drink again" I like
The finality of it as opposed to constantly , every day feeling as tho "ok just get thru today and hopefully I won't use/ drink/ whatever tomorrow "

I don't want that - I am..: well want to be in control . The freedom from addiction and even the addiction / "I have a disease " concept sounds incredible


That being said I have a VERY addictive personality. Years ago it was alcohol , now it's this and online shopping .


Anyways, I want to absorb and learn more and make a big plan .

How does on go about making a big plan if they (myself ) have been addicted to various substances ?


"I will nevwe drink , pop a pill , onlin shop etc.... again"

Please and thank you for any feeeback


And thanks again for the quick response Fresh 🙂👋🏽💯

esinger

Big plan doesn't do much good if it kills you. My advice would be to see a MD for advice-help to get clean safely. You can carry on with what ever method you choose to stay clean after that.
Guess that's sort of been said already but it's good advice in my opinion.

Good luck! You can do this!

Goodfellas

Thank you , I know I can do this and I'm ready. (:

Algorithm

This is usually how it's done with benzodiazepines. I would do what the doctor said, and taper down. Don't add any other drugs (like alcohol!) to the mix while tapering down.

I would suggest writing down the taper schedule ahead of time, though, and sticking to it, with a clear deadline, by also noting when you take the dosages.

As far as AVRT is concerned, alcohol is a drug, and the Big Plan is for alcohol and all other recreational drugs. I would recommend a separate BP for other vices, such as shopping or gambling.

Search Google for "Rational Recovery", go to their web site, and take the free online crash course on AVRT.

Order a copy of the book Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction by Jack Trimpey online from Amazon, or pick up a copy from your local book store. It is very inexpensive.

Read through the AVRT discussion threads until your book arrives.

1. RR
2. RR
3. RR
4. RR
5. RR
6. RR

Goodfellas

Thank you SO much for the reply. I appreciate it greatly.


I'm gonna check out th AVRT threads and I just ordered th rational recovery book off eBay for like $4!!!

Stoked (:


And your "Advice" sounds great-thank you for that

MesaMan

I'm >2.5 Years Sober using RR, and being mindful of the ole AV.

Check it out... Using their Minds, Yogis can slow their Heart Rate significantly. 'Magician' Harry Houdini used the same Mind Power to slow his Breathing and Heart Rate so that he could escape from Locks and Chains underwater. And, perform increasingly-difficult 'Tricks'.

The Mind is an amazing thing, and CAN be the core source of your Quit Decision, and the source for maintaining that Sober choice.
.

graced333

Hi - for those, who like me, live in very rural areas where there are few face to face meetings, just know that you can find and live sobriety. The hardest part for me, is realizing nothing in my environment has changed after I stopped the booze/pill cycle. My reality is, that finances, family and the one job I have been fortunate to hold on to, do not allow me to start fresh somewhere else. I have come to believe that probably these facts of life are actually the path I am supposed to stay on. The change is me. I am now present and awake. At times, like last night, I am filled with regrets and great sadness. A strong urge overwhelmed me for awhile and I so believed that I Needed a Drink. Instead I brought forth a memory of just what a Drink did for me and I was sick to my stomach with that picture! Then, I was overwhelmed with anger that I no longer can use a substance to "cure" my anxiety. I deep breathed for a few minutes, came to this site, read your posts. I went to bed, sad but ever grateful that I had make it through. If I can do this, YOU can too. Thank you for listening!

Goodfellas

Hey y'all !

Just to clarify I was / am originally using/used these for my high level man of anxiety - that being said - I want to be free from alllll vices and chemicals

I kicked a heavy booze habit a couple years ago so I know I can do this
Thank you for all the support (:

Goodfellas

Hey y'all - just checking in (:

My taper has gone swimmingly - with the help of AVRT , and self discipline ... I'm down to 2 measly mg pellets per day . Which is what is "actually" prescribed

Regardless , as I stated before I want to be done with ALL chemicals and vices as .. Idk... would rather just not have to deal with it .

I had a slight issue with shopping (online) as well - these have come about since I QUIT my HEAVY drinking a couple years ago . I was drinking insanely heavily for many many years .

It seems my AV will always be running its mouth lol


Thanks again for all the comments and support

Goodfellas

Awesome post - thank you for the reply / words.

Yes, Indeed we CAN do this - that much I am confident in.

I do battle anxiety and knowing that eventually I won't ever be taking ANYTHING for it kinds scares me ... but I mean it is what it is.

Gonna start by exercise - run/ walk routine back up. Back when I was running 4-5 miles per day I would LITERALLY have like euphoria for a good 3 hours after my run- AND I would feel good the next day- Bc I knew I had done/ was doing something positive and healthy .


Another thing - the past year and a half I have been running my own online business from home . Money has been very good but I think it's been bad for me as i just stay home allllll the time . I found myself closing myself inside - which isn't good.

I miss being on a routine , getting up every day and dressed for work etc

So I recently accepted a job offer as a supervisor for Amazon . I may still do the online business on the side but this is a great opportunity. Good $, great GREAT benefits for me and my family , paid sick days, 401k, vacation etc AND it puts me back on a routine which I think I really need. It gives me some structure back


So I'm pretty excited about that as well (-:

Goodfellas

Just checking in (:

It's been somewhat difficult ,BUT I have decreased my doses back to the "prescribed amount "

Pretty proud , but alas I still want to be done with ALL chemicals, vices , etc.

So I will be making my big plan to include that soon

Here's my question - recently I have struggled with compulsive online shopping . I mean I spent a LOT... we have the $$ - that's not an issue but I spent wayyyyyyy to much. A ridiculous amount

It was an addictive trait - it lit up my receptors .

So ... with my next big plan (already did one for alcohol )
How do I make a big plan to ... "never " do... things that tickle my addictive brain receptors ?

Does that make sense ? Kinda stuck as to what to do here



Also- just gotnky RR book in thE mail. Loving it so far - only about 50 pages in but very very good stuff.

Algorithm

I advised previously, making a BP for alcohol and all other non-prescribed hedonic drugs (those that get you high).

As for the shopping, "I will never engage in improper shopping again."

You will have to define what "proper" shopping is, of course. Place, time, amount, type of purchase, venue, etc. You could start with one axis, then add others. Any thoughts supporting improper shopping that violate these restrictions are the AV.

Goodfellas

Thank you

GerandTwine

Four points in response:

1 - It sounds like your "compulsive online shopping" was more of an episodic flair than what you're naming it, and you've already described it in the past tense " I spent...", "It was...", "it lit up...". So, it's over.

2 - Your Beast wants you to make yourself out as an addictive personality. There's nothing wrong with getting deep into some human activity. To me, that's a great human capacity and one of the spices of life.

3 - The giveaway here is that the clear option of returning the purchases is never even suggested. And your mad-as-hell AV would naturally pick on something that is closely related to your new job: Amazon supervisor vs. online shopping addiction. Really, now. Your zeal for online shopping may have helped you get the job.

4 - I've made multiple Big Plans and they work wonderfully for me. It started with alcohol and drugs, then I added caffeine, chocolate, and more recently refined sugar and man made sweets. Nevertheless, if the idea ever came to me that I should make a big plan to never do things that tickle my addictive brain receptors, I would recognize THAT very idea as coming from my AV for booze, drugs, caffeine, and sugar. My brain receptors are not addictive, and they do not get tickled. To me, addiction is a re-cognition of an unwanted habit, and tickling is tickling.

GT

Algorithm

Nice catch, GT.

The Addictive Voice is saying "you are your Beast, and little else" with the addictive personality argument. The same, of course, goes for "I am an alcoholic" or "I am an addict." The AV is essentially saying "you are your crazy desire for alcohol or drugs" (aka, the Beast).

Goodfellas

Awesome post . Thank you

So, do you think addiction is a "disease " I do NOT like the powerlessness / steps/ "I'm always in danger of releasing " mantra of other recovery options but I think addiction in general is something I will always deal with... or maybe compulsovity ? (Sp?)

Do you find that after you made your big plans for chocolate, caffeine etc .... it's no longer an issue etc?

My counselor told me , since I've abused substances over the years my brain has literally " changed" - that was an awkward pill to swallow lol


I always really enjoy your posts and insights GT- thank you

Goodfellas

That's facinating

So it's my "beast" that is telling me I have an addictive personality ? I don't really have one ?

I've seen scans and what not of an addicts (even recovered ) brain vs a bon addict brain and they're different


So... I guess my question is- is my AV the one telling me I have addictive tendencies ? Bc Idk... I def do- and I'm sure others do as well- even if they practice AVRT

Pardon me - /still learning lol

About 1/3 of the way thru of my rational recovery book 🙂

Algorithm

It's certainly true that the Beast never really dies, but the Beast has no way to fulfill itself, and must appeal to you (via the AV), to get what it wants. The Beast makes itself out to be powerful, but that is only an illusion.

This is the main premise of AVRT, that the Beast (addictive desire) is not the cause of your addiction. Its expression in your mind (the Addictive Voice) is the cause of your addiction. Without the AV, and your complicity, the Beast is powerless.

For the purposes of AVRT, the only change that we care about is the birth of the Beast. Recall that the Beast of AVRT is addictive desire itself, and with AVRT, we don't concern ourselves with removing desire, since desire is not the cause of our addiction. It may be the source, but it is not the direct cause, since desire cannot fulfill itself.

In AVRT, we are more concerned with living comfortably with the powerless-to-fulfill-itself residual desire of addiction (the weakened, dying Beast). With AVRT, the Beast is reduced to a pathetic residual of its former glory.

AVRT is essentially objective recognition and then separation of the addiction from our real, true, unaddicted selves. In AVRT, we are not too concerned with deep psychological problems and riddles, because addiction is not considered a psychological problem, or even a symptom of one.

We could possibly say that the Beast -- and not you -- is the one with the addictive personality, however.

Yes, because if you believe that the Beast's desires, needs, wants, or tendencies, are your own, then you are far more likely to give the Beast what it wants. One of the main functions of the AV is to conceal its existence, and that of the Beast, so that it appears to be you.

These concepts will become more clear as you move further along in the book, but remember the key definitions as you read through the book.

Addictive Voice. 1. Any thinking or feeling that supports, or even suggests, your future use of alcohol or drugs. 2. An expression of the appetite for pleasure induced by alcohol or drugs, or the Beast.

Beast. 1. The desire to get high, to drink or use drugs. 2. Addictive desire. Often used synonymously with "Addictive Voice," but more accurately, the appetite or desire for substance-induced pleasure. 3. Addictive Voice is to Beast as bark is to dog. (AV —> Beast = Bark —> Dog)