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Atheist/Non-Believers second class recovers?

Old 07-16-2012, 05:08 PM
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Atheist/Non-Believers second class recovers?

Does anyone feel like Atheist and non-believers are second class recovers when it comes to recovery? Like when you first try to quit drinking or drugging, first they people tell you to go to AA. Even when they know you don't believe in a God or personal god. They say try it anyway or you can believe in a ROCK (What?).

Or in Secular Recovery forum you can't talk about how god base recovery just does not work for use and explain why.

Hope this thread does not get locked.

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Old 07-16-2012, 09:43 PM
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Athiesm doesn't indicate some second class status; .....just a minority status.

No big deal really. Everywhere , whether it's personal religious conviction (or worldview) , or ethnicity, some folks are the minority. Being in the minority is no reason to abandon your position.

AVRT seems to be workable in a more universal way. imho

Years ago, what other people thought used to bother me a little ( since it seemed they were so obviously wrong)
Now, I'm more fascinated at the diversity of thought. Something to be celebrated !?!

I'd heard someone comment on "acceptance" once. They said; " you don't have to believe (accept) what somebody else says, .....just accept that they believe it.

Somehow , that put it more in perspective.
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Old 07-16-2012, 10:15 PM
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Nah. Feeling like a victim, going around perpetually aggrieved—that was part of my addiction. It's definitely not part of my recovery.
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Old 07-17-2012, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by topspin View Post
" you don't have to believe (accept) what somebody else says, .....just accept that they believe it.
I like the quote. People with ridged thinking can be found everywhere.

I went out with several people after an AA meeting one night. I made the comment that I like it when other people disagree with me. They looked at me like I had three heads. I explained that different perspectives sometimes change my view of reality. I will adopt other perspectives, (in whole or it part) if I believe they are more accurate, that is, more in keeping with reality. I try not to be too attached to ideas. Perhaps some of what I said registered with them, I don’t know.

I think it’s unfortunate that the language we use often includes phrases like “he’s right”. A person IS not right. “Being right” is not a quality of a person’s being (does that make sense?). A "view" of something may be more accurate than another "view" but it is not a quality of being…. it’s just an idea.
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Old 07-17-2012, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by ACT10Npack View Post
Does anyone feel like Atheist and non-believers are second class recovers when it comes to recovery? Like when you first try to quit drinking or drugging, first they people tell you to go to AA. Even when they know you don't believe in a God or personal god. They say try it anyway or you can believe in a ROCK (What?).
No. Despite not being recovered via AA, I consider my own recovery first-class. I believe the problem, which I have observed repeatedly over the years, is that many atheists and non-believers are unwilling to truly sever from AA in thought and deed, despite their never-ending complaints about AA. They claim that they don't want to 'do AA', yet they still want an 'AA lite' with the exact same format of AA, minus the Steps. Some actually still want the Steps, even, only without the Higher Power. They then feel aggrieved when AA does not accommodate them, or when they don't find their idealized AA spin-off readily available.
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Old 07-17-2012, 06:52 AM
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I've certainly run across the notion that those who aren't in AA have lower quality recovery. That's the whole "Dry Drunk" thing.

The real question is whether or not to ACCEPT this view, which I do not and which, increasingly, the world at large does not...because, I think, in part at least, because of people like us who openly challenge the idea. Yes, sometimes we get shut down, but the tide is turning. I really believe that.
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Old 07-17-2012, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ACT10Npack View Post
Does anyone feel like Atheist and non-believers are second class recovers when it comes to recovery?
No. I would say anyone who somehow feels as you descibe, are out of touch with themselves psychically enough to a degree they vainly struggle with understanding the inherent differences between subjective and objective realities.

Atheism is a choice. Being a theist is a choice. Being agnostic is a choice. More so, these choices can all be made in an arena of perfect freedom, although many unfortunately feel they are enslaved to their own beliefs, and against the beliefs of others, nonetheless, freedom of choice surely exists for all those with the courage to make their choices with an open mind, an honest heart, and an enduring will.

Although we all have paths which cross, we still must walk our own walks, and no matter our personal beliefs or non-beliefs, we all begin our respective journeys in the same equal way: at the beginning, no less.

Equality rules. Inequality drools. Justice prevails. Truth triumphs. Freedom reigns supreme. Life always finds The Way.
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:53 AM
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As an atheist in AA I feel as an equal among my peers. I may not share the opinion of many in AA, as it is not important to me that I do. What matters is that I can have my on conception of a HP (God as we understand Him) that makes sense to me. As for the suggested program in the BB, I simply see how a person of faith (the author(s)) of the BB connect to their HP and work the steps from a perspective of faith.

I am not compelled by any canonical law to believe as others in AA do, including the author(s) of the BB. Its all a matter of adaptation through a personal interpretation that can demonstrate how resourceful I am as an atheist to work a faith based program of recovery.

Many years latter in life Bill W had a change of heart regarding the agnostics/atheist:

In AA's first years I all but ruined the whole undertaking with this sort of unconscious arrogance. God as I understood Him had to be for everybody. Sometimes my aggression was subtle and sometimes it was crude. But either way it was damaging - perhaps fatally so - to numbers of non-believers. Of course this sort of thing isn't confined to Twelfth Step work. It is very apt to leak out into our relationships with everybody. Even now, I catch myself chanting that same old barrier-building refrain, "Do as I do, believe as I do - or else!"
The Dilemma of No Faith, By Bill Wilson, AA Grapevine, April 1961
"Once the realization is accepted that even between the closest human beings infinite distances continue, a wonderful living side by side can grow, if they succeed in loving the distance between them which makes it possible for each to see the other whole against the sky." ~Rainer Maria Rilke
Its a healthy challenge in open mindedness when we can understand each other without tying to change them in order to do so.

tying to understanding each other without having to change them to do so.
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:29 AM
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