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Alcoholic monkeys of St Kitts

Old 03-29-2011, 11:24 PM
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Alcoholic monkeys of St Kitts

The Vervet Monkeys of St kitts are known to raid local bars for a drink

Studies have found that the percentage of alcoholism in these monkeys matches the percentage of the human population most drink in moderation, 12% are steady drinkers, 5% drink to the last drop and some are even teetotalers

the video explains....

Alcoholic Monkeys of St. Kitts

I feel bad for them :-(
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Old 03-30-2011, 06:28 AM
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That's very sad but interesting as well...it proves to me that it is a physical addiction.
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Old 03-30-2011, 06:54 AM
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Well, you know the old saying "Monkey see,Monkey do" I was hoping we were smarter than monkeys!
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Old 03-30-2011, 08:04 AM
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So, does this quash the mid-brain AVRT theory, and support limbic system as the source of alcoholic behaviour? Me-thinks it's the limbic system which originates the need for alcohol, which become urges and unwanted intrusive thoughts as they pass through the mid-brain.

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Old 03-30-2011, 08:07 AM
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No the Addictive Voice just talks in monkey talk, silly!
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Old 03-30-2011, 09:57 AM
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I think you need to be careful to not draw too broad of a conclusion from these sorts of things. Look at the Rat Park study, where they took morphine addicted rats and moved them from crappy little lab cages to a habitat where they could forage, hide, play, and make babies . Once in the new habitat the majority (67%) of the addicted rats chose to get clean even though the drugs were made available. Even the rats that continued to use appeared to do so without addictive traits…
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Old 03-30-2011, 01:36 PM
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Careful? I base my whole recovery program on morsels of (mis)information nibbled from all manner of websites. Who needs proof? All I need is faith that what I believe to be true, is true

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Old 03-30-2011, 01:53 PM
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Sounds like Monkey business to me!
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Old 03-30-2011, 01:59 PM
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if you are going to use that analogy then these monkeys are not living in a crappy little cage, dude they are in St Kitts - on a beach - sipping cocktails
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Old 03-30-2011, 02:10 PM
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I was always curious about the flying monkeys from Oz, I wonder if there is any relation?
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Old 03-30-2011, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Murray4x5 View Post
So, does this quash the mid-brain AVRT theory, and support limbic system as the source of alcoholic behaviour? Me-thinks it's the limbic system which originates the need for alcohol, which become urges and unwanted intrusive thoughts as they pass through the mid-brain.

Murray
I don't think it matters for the AVRT structural model where precisely in the brain the urges come from.

The structural model is an oversimplification to illuminate the fact that drug cravings are similar to other biological cravings, such as thirst or hunger. The brain, of course, is much more complex.

The "Addictive Voice" of AVRT is just the conscious expression of that biological craving as experienced in our "mind's eye" via thoughts, images, and words.

There have been studies linking the insula, which does not exactly lie in the midbrain, to drug cravings. Former cigarette smokers whose insula was damaged apparently completely stopped having urges to smoke.

Scientists studying stroke patients are reporting today that an injury to a specific part of the brain, near the ear, can instantly and permanently break a smoking habit. People with the injury who stopped smoking found that their bodies, as one man put it, “forgot the urge to smoke.”
One could interpret this insula damage as preventing the higher brain from being able to "read" the cravings generated by the lower functions (the infamous "beast" of AVRT) and then generating the Addictive Voice to bring the cravings to conscious thought.

Articles:

In Clue to Addiction, Brain Injury Halts Smoking

A Small Part of the Brain, and Its Profound Effects
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Old 03-30-2011, 04:31 PM
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thanks for the info JohnBarleycorn, looks really interesting. Will read tonight after work tonight, I'm sure my productivity is up due to absence of hangovers but possibly neutralised by spending too much time here :-)
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Old 03-31-2011, 11:49 AM
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The Vervet Monkeys of St kitts...

Wow thats so bizarre! Seeing monkeys (very agile creatures) stumble about like that, and walking, or trying to, face in the dirt as it were!
Id like to know tho, the presenters definition of 'moderatiopn'.
One thing that struck me was that the monkeys were brought there 300yrs ago, hmmm... human intervention.

Im guessing they get hangovers just like us, but what about anxiety, depression, delusion... paranoia even! Holy cr*p and what about those 'last drop'(ers)???? Do they hit a 'rock bottom', if they dont manage to end up as dinner on the way home, all steamin drunk??!!

Thanks for the clip!
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Old 03-31-2011, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Stimmed View Post
Im guessing they get hangovers just like us, but what about anxiety, depression, delusion... paranoia even! Holy cr*p and what about those 'last drop'(ers)???? Do they hit a 'rock bottom', if they dont manage to end up as dinner on the way home, all steamin drunk??!!
Do they try to hide how much they drink from their mates?

Are they emotionally unavailable to other monkeys?

Do they tell themselves it is not a problem and that they can quit whenever they want?

Do they wish they could only have a couple like the other monkeys?

Do alcoholic monkeys ever just stop drinking?

It boggles the mind...
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Old 03-31-2011, 12:22 PM
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Yeah! i mean the stats show they are like us in terms of the habit/addiction. Monkeys are clever animals, as are rats.

Maybe its some kinda disturbance reaction... like the one in the Rat Park article you gave (thanks). Meaning they are not native to that part of the world, just like rats are further from metal cages than they are the 'Rat Park'.

Hmmm... maybe some kind of evolutionary detachment causes the 'stress' for the monkeys?

Hmmm... but how is it for 'humans'?

$60.000 question i guess...
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Old 03-31-2011, 12:50 PM
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Sounds like should write a research grant request for a longitudinal study of the St Kitt monkeys. Maybe three months of study every year for the next ten years would give us the data we need.
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Old 03-31-2011, 10:48 PM
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Wiki...

Native to south and east Africa... (among other things 'adaptable')

Diet -

The Vervet Monkey eats a wide range of fruits, figs, leaves, seeds and flowers. It also eats birds' eggs and young chicks, and insects (grasshoppers and termites). In human inhabited environments it will eat bread and various crops; especially maize.

It also said before this, that their Social Structure was one of diurnal (daily) and social.

I dont see they have adapted very well on St Kitts, but about the best they can make of such a mess up, they could not control.
Im guessing the problem began with tourism, but wonder how old it is? Certainly not 300yrs!

@Recycle, i think maybe a comparison in their living conditions in terms of tendencies from individual monkeys from each group (St Kitts/Africa) would be an eye opener perhaps. Or just a group behavioural comparison at least. Id favour the native monkey's long term success for sure.
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