Agnostics and Athiests in AA....how is it going Part 2
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
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Agnostics and Athiests in AA....how is it going Part 2
Time for a new thread. The powers to be close threads after 500 post...why? I'm not sure but I think it has something to do with something website management...or not...LOL.
Anywho, here is the continuation of Ananda's thread.
Anywho, here is the continuation of Ananda's thread.
Secular Recovery Rocks
Last edited by shockozulu; 02-09-2010 at 11:51 PM.
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By the way, no offense meant to Fred Hoyle who was from what I have read a brilliant Physicist, but his whole arguement was for (sic) Panspermia (seeding of life from aliens rather than god), however I base this on a bit of knowledge of him rather than deep knowledge.
More info on Michio Kaku would be appreciated if you have the time.
More info on Michio Kaku would be appreciated if you have the time.
Go ask the Multivax
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481
Thanks for the tip! You're right - Hoyle it is:
"A junkyard contains all the bits and pieces of a Boeing 747, dismembered and in disarray. A whirlwind happens to blow through the yard. What is the chance that after its passage a fully assembled 747, ready to fly, will be found standing there? So small as to be negligible, even if a tornado were to blow through enough junkyards to fill the whole Universe." (p.19)"
Kaku's quote is exactly as my signature. Seems he reworded it just enough in 'Parallel worlds' to make it his own. I forgive 'em tho. :-)
Hey, thank goodness someone posted. I was trying to think of something to do. :-)
"seeding of life from aliens rather than god" Yeah, I agree, it's kinda empty, isn't it? If we were made by sentient aliens, who made the aliens? If they're not sentient in any way we can dream of, then we're back to a kind of god, right?
Michio Kaku is best known for being a science popularist & futurist. I forget the name of his one book... You can probably look it up. Basically it talks about the four types of civilizations. We're a type-0 because we still mainly rely on dead plants for fuel (We need to get into type 1 or 2 - where we control the weather BEFORE the next ice-age). He's very good about explaining the big theories out there to easily confused people like me. He's intelligent without the slightest hint of arrogance. Kinda cute too.
I tend not to try and project what I think is actually going on around here. Because I'd be wrong anyway 'cause I ain't that smrt. I try to keep my mind on the fascinating proven (and generally agreed upon theories) of today's physicists. They are much more bizarre than anything I could ever come up with.
Superstring Theory/M-theory make my mouth water. Along with all the really weird things going on in the quantum level. Where one particle can be in two different places at the SAME time. Brain bender, that one.
This little bit below reeled me in, along with the photo of the visible universe on the other page. I probably don't need to give you the basics on string theory. :-)
-----------------------
EINSTEINS LION:
Michio Kaku (sampler)
In one dazzling stroke, M-theory has come close to solving superstring theory's two long-standing questions , leaving many theoretical physicists (myself included) gasping at its power. M-theory, moreover, may even force string theory to change its name because, although many features of M-theory are still unknown , it does not seem to be a theory purely of strings. Other strange beasts seem to emerge, including various types of membranes. Michael Duff of Texas A&M University is already giving talks with the title " The theory formerly known as strings".
"Nature shows us only the tail of the lion. But I do not doubt that the lion belongs to it even though he cannot at once reveal himself because of his enormous size" - Albert Einstein M-theory does not prove the final correctness of superstring theory. Not by any means. Proving or disproving its validity may take years more. But it still marks an astonishing breakthrough. Remember that some of the finest minds of this century have been stumped by the problem of creating a "Theory of Everything". Einstein summed up the problem when he said: Nature shows us only the tail of the lion. But I do not doubt that the lion belongs to it even though he cannot at once reveal himself because of his enormous size." The tail" is what we see in nature , which can be described by the four fundamental forces -gravity, electromagnetism and the strong and weak nuclear forces. The lion is the ultimate theory that will unify them in one short equation.
Today, physicists believe that the first force, gravity, can be described by Einstein's general relativity, based on the smooth warping of the fabric of space- time. This is an elegant theory that describes the macroscopic world of black holes, quasars and the big bang. But gravity has stubbornly refused to unite with the other three forces , which are described by quantum theory. Here, instead of the smooth fabric of space-time, we have the discrete world of packets of energy, or quanta.
The form of quantum theory that goes furthest in describing matter and its interactions is the Standard Model, which is based on a bizarre bestiary of particles such as quarks , leptons and bosons (see Diagram). The Standard Model may be one of the most successful theories in science, but it is also one of the ugliest. Its inadequacy is betrayed by some 19 arbitrary constants not derived by any kind of theory that have to be put in "by hand" to make the equations work.
Capturing the "lion", which unites these two great theories, would be a crowning achievement for physics. But while Einstein was first to set off on this noble hunt, tracking the footprints left by the lion, he ultimately lost the trail and wandered off into the wilderness.
"A junkyard contains all the bits and pieces of a Boeing 747, dismembered and in disarray. A whirlwind happens to blow through the yard. What is the chance that after its passage a fully assembled 747, ready to fly, will be found standing there? So small as to be negligible, even if a tornado were to blow through enough junkyards to fill the whole Universe." (p.19)"
Kaku's quote is exactly as my signature. Seems he reworded it just enough in 'Parallel worlds' to make it his own. I forgive 'em tho. :-)
Hey, thank goodness someone posted. I was trying to think of something to do. :-)
"seeding of life from aliens rather than god" Yeah, I agree, it's kinda empty, isn't it? If we were made by sentient aliens, who made the aliens? If they're not sentient in any way we can dream of, then we're back to a kind of god, right?
Michio Kaku is best known for being a science popularist & futurist. I forget the name of his one book... You can probably look it up. Basically it talks about the four types of civilizations. We're a type-0 because we still mainly rely on dead plants for fuel (We need to get into type 1 or 2 - where we control the weather BEFORE the next ice-age). He's very good about explaining the big theories out there to easily confused people like me. He's intelligent without the slightest hint of arrogance. Kinda cute too.
I tend not to try and project what I think is actually going on around here. Because I'd be wrong anyway 'cause I ain't that smrt. I try to keep my mind on the fascinating proven (and generally agreed upon theories) of today's physicists. They are much more bizarre than anything I could ever come up with.
Superstring Theory/M-theory make my mouth water. Along with all the really weird things going on in the quantum level. Where one particle can be in two different places at the SAME time. Brain bender, that one.
This little bit below reeled me in, along with the photo of the visible universe on the other page. I probably don't need to give you the basics on string theory. :-)
-----------------------
EINSTEINS LION:
Michio Kaku (sampler)
In one dazzling stroke, M-theory has come close to solving superstring theory's two long-standing questions , leaving many theoretical physicists (myself included) gasping at its power. M-theory, moreover, may even force string theory to change its name because, although many features of M-theory are still unknown , it does not seem to be a theory purely of strings. Other strange beasts seem to emerge, including various types of membranes. Michael Duff of Texas A&M University is already giving talks with the title " The theory formerly known as strings".
"Nature shows us only the tail of the lion. But I do not doubt that the lion belongs to it even though he cannot at once reveal himself because of his enormous size" - Albert Einstein M-theory does not prove the final correctness of superstring theory. Not by any means. Proving or disproving its validity may take years more. But it still marks an astonishing breakthrough. Remember that some of the finest minds of this century have been stumped by the problem of creating a "Theory of Everything". Einstein summed up the problem when he said: Nature shows us only the tail of the lion. But I do not doubt that the lion belongs to it even though he cannot at once reveal himself because of his enormous size." The tail" is what we see in nature , which can be described by the four fundamental forces -gravity, electromagnetism and the strong and weak nuclear forces. The lion is the ultimate theory that will unify them in one short equation.
Today, physicists believe that the first force, gravity, can be described by Einstein's general relativity, based on the smooth warping of the fabric of space- time. This is an elegant theory that describes the macroscopic world of black holes, quasars and the big bang. But gravity has stubbornly refused to unite with the other three forces , which are described by quantum theory. Here, instead of the smooth fabric of space-time, we have the discrete world of packets of energy, or quanta.
The form of quantum theory that goes furthest in describing matter and its interactions is the Standard Model, which is based on a bizarre bestiary of particles such as quarks , leptons and bosons (see Diagram). The Standard Model may be one of the most successful theories in science, but it is also one of the ugliest. Its inadequacy is betrayed by some 19 arbitrary constants not derived by any kind of theory that have to be put in "by hand" to make the equations work.
Capturing the "lion", which unites these two great theories, would be a crowning achievement for physics. But while Einstein was first to set off on this noble hunt, tracking the footprints left by the lion, he ultimately lost the trail and wandered off into the wilderness.
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Join Date: Nov 2008
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You are right, of course, he has reworded the quote in order to cover another point all together (very cool).
To counter your point about who made the aliens, who made god lol it's a common arguement used by Dawkins, if god made a complex universe then he must be more complex in turn lol
Kaku sounds like a fascinating character and I will be sure to check him out.
Oh and as for not being smart, I am about as far from smart as you can get in a fast car but what the hell does it matter if we are trying to learn
To counter your point about who made the aliens, who made god lol it's a common arguement used by Dawkins, if god made a complex universe then he must be more complex in turn lol
Kaku sounds like a fascinating character and I will be sure to check him out.
Oh and as for not being smart, I am about as far from smart as you can get in a fast car but what the hell does it matter if we are trying to learn
Go ask the Multivax
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481
Thought this might give us a little fun something to do. I wanted to find some pictures or various scenarios of future human evolution. I could only find this one, and it looks all sorts of wrong! The nose multi-filtering system is interesting, but we'd be dead from pollution (at the going rate) before our bodies could possible adjust! And a spatula finger? Seriously hope we don't have to push buttons at this stage of the game. And where's all his electronic parts? ;-) I still lean twords our good 'ol grey "aliens" myself.
Comments? Other photo's?
Comments? Other photo's?
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 26,425
Just got home from a speaker meeting...it was really helpful for me.
There are sooo many benifits for me in attending meetings. I even got asked to share ... which my ego loved...but i was aware i had nothing to share on topic...so i just thank them, sat down, and listened to others
How is AA going for the rest of you godless bunch
There are sooo many benifits for me in attending meetings. I even got asked to share ... which my ego loved...but i was aware i had nothing to share on topic...so i just thank them, sat down, and listened to others
How is AA going for the rest of you godless bunch
Go ask the Multivax
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481
I had one tonite too. It's a big book meeting. What can I say, It's the only one around town. But, after 2 1/2 years, I've probably been over that thing a couple dozen times. :-) Good talk tho. It was the second meeting I ever went to so it's close to my heart.
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,989
Originally Posted by ananda 
How is AA going for the rest of you godless bunch
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 26,425
they were reading "we agnostics" today....it was ok...the guy next to me I could really relate to....mostly he said don't get your panties in a bunch worrying about it lol
And that absolutely a god is not required in order to work the steps...and stay sober
And that absolutely a god is not required in order to work the steps...and stay sober
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