Ceres

Did they have any other lit. there besides the "approved" lit that we all get? 25 people is a nice meeting. I'd say ideal to me. 30 people is getting to big. I would have really liked it.

Went to one for a while that was 4 people including me. Tried it out for about four weeks. Then, nixed it. When it seemed I already heard was all I was gonna hear.

Ananda

wow you have alot of meeting options..in my town there is about 2 a day and the total ra's in town might be 150 max.....many meetings are only 4 or 5 people and my home group has only about 6 members....the bigger group gets abuot 30 on a friday nite

johnclavin

No other lit, just the AA aproved. A spritual pamplet with atheist stories would be nice to have.

Here is the complete format for all of the Los Angeles "We Agnostics" AA meetings.

WE AGNOSTICS


(Before the meeting begins, select a reader for Appendix II, Spiritual Experience, found on page 569 of the Third Edition of the Big Book.)

Good Evening. This is the regular Friday night meeting of the AA group, We Agnostics. My name is _______ and I'm an alcoholic.

Alcoholics Anonymous is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength, and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. There are no dues or fees for AA membership. We are self-supporting through our own contributions. AA is not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organization, or institution; neither endorses nor opposes any causes. Our primary purpose is to stay sober and to help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety.

May we see the hands of any newcomers to AA with less than 30 days of sobriety?

Are there any visitors from out of town?

May we see the hands of those who have never attended this meeting before?

You are very welcome here. We urge you to get names and numbers from regular members of this group.

Out of consideration for others, please take any private conversation out of the room.

Starting at my right, we will now go around the room and introduce ourselves.

The We Agnostics group has a tradition of free expression. Here, you may feel free to express any doubts or disbeliefs you may have and to share your own form of "spiritual experience," your search for it, or even your rejection of it. We do not endorse atheism nor oppose it. We do not oppose any form of religion nor endorse it. Our only wish is to assure suffering alcoholics that they can find sobriety in AA without having to accept anyone else's belief or having to deny their own. The only requirement for AA membership is the desire to stop drinking.

There will be no closing prayer. At this meeting we hold hands for a moment of silence and repeat the AA "Pledge of Responsibility."

Each week at this meeting, we read Appendix II from our Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous, entitled "Spiritual Experience." Tonight, I've asked ______ to read it for us.

(after the reading) Are their any AA birthdays tonight? (if so, cakes are presented)

It is now time for the leader to qualify.

(Leader shares for approximately 10 minutes.)

We will now start the discussion. There will be no coffee break. Please feel free to help yourself to refreshments. We will follow this procedure: I will alternately pick people who raise their hands and people who do not. This is a timed meeting. Your cooperation is deeply appreciated. Please try to limit your sharing to five minutes. At five minutes, you will be reminded by the beep from our timer. Please wrap up your share as soon as you can. We also ask that you speak only once and that there be no cross talk.

(Sharing until 9:50.)

Our time has run out. We will now observe the 7th tradition, which states that AA is self-supporting through its own contributions. Please remain seated while we pass the basket. While the basket is being passed we will have announcements from the secretary.

(Announcements)

Are there any other AA announcements?

We need two volunteers to help clean up.

Is there anyone here who feels the need to say something more? If you came in with a problem, don't leave with a problem.

(Call on all who raise their hands.)

I will now read the Promises which can be found on page 83 of the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous, following discussion of the first nine steps.

The Promises are read.

We will now hold hands for a moment of silence and on "three" repeat the AA "Pledge of Responsibility."

“When anyone, anywhere reaches out for help, I want the hand of AA always to be there, and for that I am responsible.”

KEEP COMING BACK.

Ceres

I very much like that. :-)

Pagekeeper

I like the idea of reading Appendix II at a meeting. Beats the hell outta reading The Daily Reflection.

carlri

There were so many interesting parts of this meeting, not all of which had to do with spirituality:

Yes! :-) Very cool.

So it's not about no-god, but open to any way of thinking. What a joy!

I know I don't get to a lot of different meetings, but I've never seen this approach before. No hiding!

Another little gem.

Thanks for sharing this John, and making us feel welcome. Hope to see you again soon!

missbe

is this meeting still active? how do they deal with working the steps?

johnclavin

Yes the Hollywood, CA Friday night "We Agnostics" is very active. We are having our Solstice party this Dec 17, 2010.

The point of this meeting is "open to all beliefs or non-beliefs" Many long time sober members of this meeting don't work the steps or read any AA literature, but some members say that they believe in a god.

I work my secular 12 steps that can be found by searching my name. I call them the 12 steps of recovery for all beliefs. There are many other secular 12 steps out there.

John

Thumpalumpacus

Does anyone know of a secular group in Ventura County? SOS has yet to reply to my email, and after two weeks I don't think I would bother with them if they did, but I could really use some like-minded support.

TIA

johnclavin

Hi Thumpalumpacus,

I just went through the whole Ventura county AA meeting list and I don't see any advertised secular meetings. I was just up in Ventura a month ago and was asked to speak at the noon downtown meeting. They didn't seem all that religious.
I am in Palm Desert, CA sometimes where there are no secular AA meetings, but I make it work. Someone needs to make a "Universal Translator" like on Star Trek, that would translate god-speak to secular wording. Maybe there is an iPhone app.

John

Ananda

yep..that translator is on my chrismas list (I still believe in Santa)

Zencat

As far as I know there are no secular meetings in Ventura County. I have looked before..would be nice to have something close to Oxnard.

shockozulu

You mean some people don't? We all know he's real!

Official NORAD Santa Tracker

Santa Claus (DearNorthPole) on Twitter

damselfly

Hi, I am thinking of visiting this meeting soon, maybe tonight. It's a bit of a drive for me, so I am wanting to make sure I have the correct info. Is it at the Kaiser building there? And is there any trouble with parking? Also, is the meeting time from 8:30-10PM? Thanks!

johnclavin

Hi damselfly, I just saw this post this morning (Sat)

The meeting is Friday night 8:30 PM to 10 PM in the Kaiser building, on the corner of Sunset and Alexandria. You can park in the garage (free) next to the building or there is plenty of (free) street parking.

Get there early and you will see the smokers out front.

In the winter time the meeting is on the 3rd floor. Follow the loud voices.

4950 Sunset Boulevard, Los Angeles, CA 90027

John

CatWings

I wish they had these where I live but I can't find any evidence of one. I am constantly struggling with step three and I have begun to interpret that as meaning that I need to turn my life and my will over to learning a new way to see things and to behave or access that feeling of unity with life and the divine wisdom within. I don't know....every time I start thinking about what my spirituality really is, it evaporates before my eyes at a certain point. I find this enlightening but also frustrating when I go to try and maintain conscious contact with my higher power, let alone ask for guidance.

Sometimes I think I feel it or see it as evidence in my life and other times it just feels like the whole HP idea is just another easy softer way around dealing with things. In other words, I am getting this strong feeling that my recovery is going to take more than working the steps, though I understand that is a lot too. I have not completed my fourth step, so I can't say that for sure.

One thing I like about AA is that it is helping me try to find some form of spirituality and I can feel that it's there as a spiritual atheist, I just think it's something I need to experience and it doesn't happen all the time.

In other words, my faith is weak in turning it all over to some power I don't understand. I do understand that my understanding of life itself and my place in it with other people is a strong part of my spiritual life if there is one - or a mindfulness that is more manageable for me.

Not running back to addiction when I face uncertain or scary inner emotional or mental states has had it's own source of inspiration in some odd way, being that it causes me to ask questions and to understand at a deeper level than before.

I am going to start attending some 12-fold path meetings that incorporate Buddhist thought and meditation into step work. Sometimes I get a sense of a higher power just by going to meetings and listening to everyone be real and in support of one another.

Zencat

I like that. I'm going to do somewhat the same for my 3 step. I understand turning my will over is the same as alining my will with AA. I'm going to take Bill W's suggestion and place the direction of my will with the [1]"very large group of people who have solved their alcohol problem". Also another suggestion was given by a [2]Buddhist monk was to use "good" as God as we understand him. As a non-theist Zen Buddhist inclined person as myself, that make a lot of sense. Following the precepts of Buddhism I need to liberate myself from suffering and that's "good".

I'm finding it unnecessary to understand a God of my understanding. Sounds like a Zen Kōan doesn't...LOL. For me trying to understand the nature of what I feel is the mysterious is an absurdity. A hindrance to seeing the true nature of things.

I think the point is to keep expanding ones conscious in order to see in a new way. And it looks to me that your doing just that. Keep working it CatWings.



[1]“make A.A. itself your higher power. Heres a very large group of people who have solved their alcohol problem.”
Twelve Steps And Twelve Traditions, pp. 27-28


[2]We took A.A.'s Twelve Steps over to the largest Buddhist monastery in this province. We showed them to the priest at the head of it. After he had finished looking over the Twelve Steps, the monk said, "Why, these are fine! Since we as Buddhists don't understand God just as you do, it might be slightly more acceptable if you inserted the word 'good' in your Steps instead of 'God.' Nevertheless, you say in these Steps that it is God as you understand Him. That clears up the point for us. Yes, A.A.'s Twelve Steps will certainly be accepted by the Buddhists around here."
Alcoholics Anonymous Comes Of Age, William G. Wilson, page 81.

recycle

It is really a shame that AA literature has not progressed beyond the bearded omni-dude in the sky notion of God. You can find snippets like Zencat quoted, but even those are not wholly satisfying. For example, the 2nd chapter in the 12 & 12 does say AA can work as an HP, but the rest of the chapter makes it clear that it works until you come around to really finding God. I firmly believe the 12 steps are worthwhile for the non-theist, but sometimes I feel like a creationist looking for boat on Mt. Ararat.

Perhaps we should start pulling together some online resources for secular 12 step support like the science articles in Secular Connections? Kevin Griffin and Noah Levine both have lots online interviews and talks about non-theist 12 step work.

CatWings

[QUOTE=Zencat;2921379 ...Buddhist monk was to use "good" as God as we understand him. As a non-theist Zen Buddhist inclined person as myself, that make a lot of sense. Following the precepts of Buddhism I need to liberate myself from suffering and that's "good".



I'm finding it unnecessary to understand a God of my understanding. Sounds like a Zen Kōan doesn't...LOL. For me trying to understand the nature of what I feel is the mysterious is an absurdity. A hindrance to seeing the true nature of things.

I think the point is to keep expanding ones conscious in order to see in a new way. And it looks to me that your doing just that. Keep working it CatWings.

[/QUOTE]


I like this as well. "Good" encompasses a whole lot of things to do and make a conscious shift towards.

And seeing the true nature of things is an ongoing practice in and of itself so it would make sense to me that my attempt at conception starts to evaporate.

My father has been in AA for many years and he once said to me that he likes the spirituality of AA because it allows him the ability to leave his HP undefined.

CatWings

As my father points out, we live in mostly a Judeo-Christian culture still and this is the terminology we have for the program.

I think any evolution past that would have to start with secular 12-step meetings.

I think the strong traditions of AA prevent such evolution and it at least keeps it simple and avoids serious controversy.

When I went to meetings in Ohio, they seemed very religious in tone. In Colorado they are a lot less so. But I still have a hard time with the religious aspects of AA and I didn't really find much comfort in the chapter to the Agnostic.