stone

Also, don't question me about the validity of the steps please....I am always just on the verge of packing AA in, lol.

Dee74

I wasn't questioning the validity of anything mate
I genuinely wanted to know what the process was as you saw it
I was interested in your methodology.

thanks
D

stone

I know, it is just when I think about the steps I have one opinion one minute and another opinion the next.

These opinions are 1. they are worth doing and 2. they are a load of crap

Dee74

I think, like Noelle says, they have application even if you're not an addict - rigourous honesty to ourselves and others, service work, and regular introspection? Nothing wrong with that.

I think they're probably worth doing.
Not that I do them per se, but I appreciate the principles.

I found I had to focus more on the building a better life and a better me rather than on the not drinking, cos that drove me mad...too narrow a focus....

I figure if I'm improving myself and my life, and I'm appreciating my worth and my place and purpose, then I'm not so interested in destroying myself anyway.

D

stone

Yes, and really that is what the steps are for, they don't stop anyone drinking but they aim at building a better you who wont want to destroy themselves.

I am, however, an independant thinker by nature and so would rather find my own way to do that rather than have to do mental gymnastics to try and fit someone else's ideas. Ideas that they just lifted from religion in the first place.

I think I am probably just taking elements of the steps that I agree with and using them in my own way.

I can make what I am doing sound like it fits the steps more than it really does.

But yes, I know where you are coming from and I agree.

JigOvLife

Great thread Ananda, I hope to contribute eagerly when I've established some sanity and consistency of thought. Good to see some familiar faces here.
Think I've just managed a proper day 1, not one of those white knuckle tension fests, but one of those all too rare moment of clarity jobs.

I intend shuffling back to my local meeting tomorrow, which is also a rarity, I usually leave it a week or 2 without a drink before going or I get too angry.
Hope to chat soon...still very puggled.

stone

Good to see you Jig.

Dee74

ok JMO...

but you seem to get a little caught up in the guy in long flowing beard and sandals thing Stoney...he has no place in my recovery either....

like I said, if I'm improving myself and my life, I'm hopefully coming to a realization of my worth and my place and purpose - I believe we all have worth and if we use it we should find purpose and value in who we are and what we do - and the urge for self destruction is diminished.

No God. No mental gymnastics lol - just me, hard work....and never picking up the first drink

Not picking on you tho - just thought I may as well throw my opinions in...
I hope you reconcile your differences soon Stoney

Good to see you here too Gav
D

stone

That is hardly surprising if I am trying to do the steps that are in the Big Book, with it's "over 400 references to God as Creator, Maker, Father of Light, Heavenly Father, and God".

I am actually doing better at reconciling it all than I ever have lately.

As I said earlier....

Dee74

OK....deja vu LOL

I can see us doing this for a fecking week

My way is no more valid than yours Paul and I never meant to suggest it was - I was just aiming to offer a different perspective

D

stone

I think we are coming from the same place on this really, Dee.

Ananda

Stoney...just curious...how do they open and close meetings where you go? I guess there is alot of different ways in the US...though most include the same things..

I am mostly comfortable with our openings...except when someone feels the need to place huge imphasis on certain words or phrazes...or the crazys who chant out parts or responses...but haven't seen many of those around the last 2 years

stone

We open with the pre-amble and close with the serenity prayer, some groups hold hands for the serenity prayer, some don't.

There is only one group I know of that closes with the Our Father...no-one attends it because of that!

Ananda

I wish we just used the preamble..it sums up the program for me and the serinity prayer for closing would be better too.

We do the preamble, followed by "how it works", followed by the 12 traditions....some groups even throw in the promises and/or the 12 concepts.

Then our group decided to stop reading the traditions and instead read the long form of one tradition each week....but they understood that differently from me so for the long version they read the entire chapter from the 12x12 instead of just the "long version" from the back of the book....sigh....but it is ok

the most important part of a meeting for me is what happens after the readings and before the closing.

stone

We read "how it works" at a step meeting I go to. I find it one of the most annoying pieces of BS in the Book.

Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path etc....

We go around the the table with each person reading a bit of it and I sit there thinking "what a load of crap". It makes assumptions about people with 'grave emotional disorders', people being honest with themselves etc. All of which are just opinions and waffle.

I am going to that meeting tonight, lol.

"Without help it is too much for us. But there is One who has all power-that One is God. May you find Him now!"

All quotes from first edition of BB.

allport

How it works really annoys me too.

What it is saying is that if you fail its not the fault of the program you didnt do it right or as you say you are dishonest or have a grave emotional disorder (but dont worry you are not to blame). Talk about a cop out.

I can recognise this for the nonsense it is but i worry for people who embrace the program and fail. X

stone

Exactly!

LOL

Ananda

I called for that as a topic at the meeting last friday...as my brother is someone for whom working AA didn't work and I also got drunk working a "perfect program" the first time I drank in AA in 87.

It is amazing cause only one person was a hard ass about it...the rest of the group talked about it taking more than just AA to get sober and that it doesn't work for everyone.

I'm glad my groups aren't just a bunch of sheep...although we do have our share of sheep

NoelleR

"...We read "how it works" at a step meeting I go to. I find it one of the most annoying pieces of BS in the Book..."

"...How it works really annoys me too..."

I believe this is probably why my sponsor had me tear out pgs 59+60 (in fact, just the last 25 lines of page 59 and the first 4 lines of page 60), so that we would only have to deal with 'the steps they took' which they 'suggest' as 'A' program of recovery.....

"..."Without help it is too much for us. But there is One who has all power-that One is God. May you find Him now!"..."

Sometimes I like to remind my 'believing' fellow travellers that their Judeo-Christian God does NOT do things 'for' them (as it also says in those 'how it works' readings), but 'through' them. Although their conception of God, that they seem to get from the bible, may be all-powerful, he is NOT, as my sponsor used to lovingly say, a Celestial SugarDaddy.....lol ...and, as a matter of fact, since he gave them free will, he will NOT keep them from picking up if they've a mind to (that mean taking one's free will away; would he do that?...), therefore he neither gets them clean/sober nor keeps them clean/sober. I usually will then leave them stammering with 'well, uh, um, @#$%^&'

I once asked some friends who attend Celebrate Recovery what they thought of all my clean/sober atheist friends (all with at least 23 years and upwards---more than these CR friends seem to be able to accumulate), since they believe that folks can't get sober or stay sober without Jesus Christ as their higher power. They also hemmed and hawed and then said, "Well, they may be clean/sober, but they're not free." I never could get a clear picture of what they meant by 'free' that my friends seemed to lack.....?

I've just had to realize that atheist & agnostic folks in recovery seem to need to be more loving and tolerant than most.....to each his/her own, as long as we don't pick up and are happy, I really don't care what how we get here..... (o: .....as long as we're here.....!


NoelleR

allport

I was told by one lovely christian lady (not) that it didnt matter how long i abstained for I would always be a dry drunk, and that i would die a dry drunk since i didnt believe in jesus, not a higher power, jesus, i know she is just one person but it really knocked me sideways that anyone could be so vicious.