naz111

I think you’re right Dee. I’m kind of blind to it. Can you tell me which parts you see is AV.

naz111

the thing I am afraid of is having to live with the AV constantly in my head. Like having these intrusive thoughts constantly, not being able to think about anything else.

I feel like I use in the end, to get rid of the thoughts. Which obviously doesn’t work. It only makes it worse in the big picture.

the indecision is what is chipping away at me.

Dee74

My AV is very quiet now. The last time was when I was in pain for several weeks and it beckoned to me at 2am after a run of sleepless nights.
By the dawn I was back in my right mind.

I can go literally for years without so much as a whisper.

The more days weeks months and years I'm sober the more 'not drinking' becomes the default

That's not to say my mind doesn't go at a million miles an hour - it does - but it always did even before the first time I took a drink.
I've come to accept that, even love it - and I've harnessed that 'thought power' for my benefit now, not my self destruction.

D

TiredCarpenter

I was looking for answers.
I read Annie Grace “This Naked Mind”
Alcohol no longer holds any sway over me. The book changed my mind (brain) about alcohol, just like flipping a switch.

I was an AA guy for 20 years, lapsed repeatedly after that, could no longer drink the AA kool-aid. Felt powerless, uncertain what the answers were. Tried a few things. (over six years)
Annie Grace is, in many ways, frustrating in her writing style. I kept an open mind, read every word, skipped the testimonials.
I can’t explain it, but the book totally changed my mind/relationship with alcohol.
I’m free.

Understand, please, I’m a big skeptic. I’m, like so many of us, an intelligent person (often to my detriment). Some of the “simple” statements in this book have become a part of me.
My perspective had been re-trained. It is difficult put into words.
I read the book cover to cover (except testimonials) twice. Haven’t reached for a drink since. 440 days now.

Be well.

msl999

Guess what? The AV is living in your head whether you like it or not. It is not your job to stop the AV, it is to RECOGNIZE the AV and separate its message from YOUR thoughts.

That fear is also AV. It’s telling you that if you recognize & ignore it, you will go crazy. That’s rubbish. You will not die if you don’t give in to the AV, .but you may die if you do.

Stop being afraid of the future, take a leap of faith, make a Big Plan & stick to it no matter what and NEVER CHANGE YOUR MIND.

The AV never goes away, sorry to break it to you. But that shouldn’t scare you if you have a Big Plan, because the AV has no power to make you drink/use. I actually used to like to play with the AV, by a technique called “shifting” It’s in the book, and since you have it, I suggest looking it up. It may help strengthen your AVRT muscles and create a good separation. It’s also mentioned many times in the AVRT threads.

This stuff works. I’m living proof. It saved my life.

msl999

I just went back and re-read the previous posts. Seems like you’re going in circles.

Have you read Chapter 13 yet? It’s been over a year.

The offer to go chapter by chapter is still on the table. Let’s see if you are serious.

DriGuy

I remember being at that stage of not knowing what to do, and giving up at the slightest suggestion that I may be on a wrong track, which sounds like where you are now. Don't be alarmed. It's all part of the process.

Now the thing about recognizing your AV is a big deal in the beginning. It's what makes you keep drinking, and you have to learn to ignore it, which takes practice (practice is something we do when we want to learn how to do something we don't know how to do). The AV will dominate your early recovery. It does fade, but slowly, and eventually disappears. So it's not like you have to live with it the rest of your life. God help me if recovery was nothing more than learning how to live with those insane cravings and an active AV for the rest of my life. I'm not sure I could survive that. But that's the surprise in recovery. Those worst parts of addiction, just go away and are no longer issues.

Just remember, one drink leads to another, and everything seems fine, until you are right back in the nightmare. This can take weeks, months, or just that one drink. You need to accept that you can never drink again. Do that, and you will have one major stumbling block out of the way. When I finally realized that was something I had to accept, things started getting easier right away.

Dee74

great post DriGuy - thanks

D

Zencat

Hi Naz

Early on in my addiction treatments I would challenge my AV with my hopes, goals, and believing I will recover. I used a positive attitude to ward off the negativity of the AV, Everything I need for a sober life the AV hates. My AV has faded into the background now knowing how to challenge negative self-talk with all the wonderful benefits of sobriety. I have undergone a radical change of perspective that supports my recovery.

naz111

Thank you guys for the response, I didn’t know there would be so many. Very helpful.

Ok, here is where I am struggling.

if it is so easy to quit this addiction, why can I not use this technique on all other bad habits.

what is the difference between an addiction and a bad habit?

does shifting mean that I actually do have control over my AV in a sense. That when I feel it coming on I can shift? And practice doing so?

I really struggle with allowing the av to run its crap show in my head. It is insane. And when I do contemplate the idea of using AVRT and allowing the thoughts and feelings, my av pulls out every reason not to. Sometimes I feel peace, other times I feel completely aversion to the AV. It doesn’t help that I question the author’s values.

has anyone ever felt that all of their thoughts are av. Or none of them? If I hear my thoughts under the definition, most of mine are av. Or I think a thought and then the av pitches in at the end. Like, I’ve already wasted my life, so I may as well drink. First part valid. Second part av.

I really appreciate you guys hanging in there with me. This has been a long road.

DriGuy

It's not what I would call easy. The abundance of failures we see around us attest to that. Some tools in alcohol recovery can carry over into other addictions/habits, but not maybe not all. Most recovery programs have better success with alcohol addition than they do with nicotine addiction. I don't think it's because the two are vastly different addictions, but in my experience, stopping drinking was a far easier task than quitting smoking. I've heard solidly recovered alcoholics admit they can't stop smoking.

That's a good question. I have no idea if there is some arbitrary line that separates the two. I personally think the two often come as a package, a two for one special, so to speak

I'm not sure what shifting is, and maybe some can turn off the AV. Now I seldom hear from it, but early on, I don't believe I could have turned it off. What I could do is not respond. That is control... self control. As you quit responding, the AV may get even more persistent for awhile, but eventually it will fade, as long as you don't feed it.

If you can shut if off, more power to you. I had to let it run its course and then fade. Not every program or every author has your answers. He/she/it can only provide you with what works for a lot of people. I've yet to find a program I agree with completely, but every program I've gotten involved with had parts of it that I could use.

Thinking of the AV as a separate entity from yourself is kind of a clever way of dealing with it, but your AV is all you, not some evil spirit that comes to rest on your shoulder and torment you. It's you telling yourself lies that you know are not true, and encouraging you to do things that you know contradict your better judgement. I think separating you from you may help to be more objective. To me, I considered my AV as just my subconscious mind invading my conscious thoughts. It's one of the drawbacks of superior intelligence. I don't think my dog is troubled by things like this.

msl999

Hey Naz,

The shifting exercise is on page 203 of the Rational Recovery book.

This and many other of your questions are answered in chapter 13.

You have to put in the work, nobody can do this for you.

Good luck.