You stop, they start or increase?
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Originally Posted by Shamrock51 
she was a normal drinker......until I stopped drinking.
What do you consider to be a "normal" drinker? How much did your wife drink when you were drinking as well?
I was also going to say you might want to visit the Friends and Family of Alcoholics forum https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ly-alcoholics/
Post there of course too, if you want to.
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Originally Posted by trailmix
Hi Shamrock, just a question and a suggestion.
What do you consider to be a "normal" drinker? How much did your wife drink when you were drinking as well?
I was also going to say you might want to visit the Friends and Family of Alcoholics forum https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ly-alcoholics/
Post there of course too, if you want to.
What do you consider to be a "normal" drinker? How much did your wife drink when you were drinking as well?
I was also going to say you might want to visit the Friends and Family of Alcoholics forum https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ly-alcoholics/
Post there of course too, if you want to.
I will check out that thread. I have been meaning to go there. Thanks a lot.
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Originally Posted by Mizz
Happy Birthday to you! Another trip around the sun.
It sounds to me like you are about to put boundaries in place. You sorted through what it is you need and now you are going to take action. This is good. I am proud of you. These things are very hard. I personally didn't know about boundaries until last year. People would say "You need boundaries" or "You gotta have boundaries" or whatever they would say and I felt clueless as to what that particular thing looked like. Its easy to throw those words out. Its not easy to identify our boundaries and then to put those boundaries in place. So, we learn.
We aren't born with the map on how to navigate this stuff. Its just good you are navigating, and it sounds to me like you are going about it in the healthiest way possible.
Once again, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
It sounds to me like you are about to put boundaries in place. You sorted through what it is you need and now you are going to take action. This is good. I am proud of you. These things are very hard. I personally didn't know about boundaries until last year. People would say "You need boundaries" or "You gotta have boundaries" or whatever they would say and I felt clueless as to what that particular thing looked like. Its easy to throw those words out. Its not easy to identify our boundaries and then to put those boundaries in place. So, we learn.
We aren't born with the map on how to navigate this stuff. Its just good you are navigating, and it sounds to me like you are going about it in the healthiest way possible.
Once again, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
Yes, I am ready for boundaries and I am ready to see if she will do the work. I am going to stand firm. I told her this weekend that she was not treating me well, to which she tried to return, "But you didn't treat me well when...." I cut her off right there. I said, "My drinking past has ZERO to do with your drinking CURRENT. One does not justify the other, and I will NOT take it." She didn't know what to say, because normally when she says that I get defensive about my own former drinking. This time the focus was on HER.
So the boundaries are coming, and I do know how to set them. I am a school teacher of 27 years. I know what to do. If she needs boundaries, I can provide them. If she wants to continue to drink, she will have made the choices that were clearly laid out for her. I cannot make her do anything and I do not know exactly what she will do. But I can be a very intense person, and unwavering. She is not drinking anymore and living with me. It's not happening. She can drink more, but I will no longer be in the relationship. I do still love her very much but part of my heart has been hurt, and I'm very protective over it. So, after my birthday, the card goes away and she will not have access to our family money to drink. She put me in charge a long time ago. She can break into that 401k if she wants to, but then she is making her decisions and they are not about being with me, caring for me, loving me, or wanting a life for me. I have an amazing life right now sans this, but sans your wife is pretty weird. It is a weird feeling when literally EVERYTHING else is going wonderfully EXCEPT your marriage. WTH? This shall not do. Thanks Mizz. You are amazing.
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Originally Posted by Free2bme888
What a great birthday gift for yourself!
Shamrock, we are here for you, and many of us have been on both sides of the coin, like you, recovering from a toxic relationship with alcohol, AFTER we became addicted.
For me, in my 30s and 40s, I didn’t problem drink, but slowly, ever so slowly, and then….VERY QUICKLY, I crossed that invisible, sneaky line that we cross called addiction. I had an alcoholic husband, and I didn’t understand why he had to drink Thursday through Tuesday. That was his weekend. (I was so naive, I didn’t realize he was drinking ALL day, every day). When he went to rehab, and everyone in the Al Anon circle at the hospital was answering the posed question, “so what will you do when (not if) your loved one relapses?” All around me, murmurs of “oh, stick by them, understand, ……”. When it came to me, I said, “I’m gone”. And he did, and I was. I think he might be dead now, we didn’t have any children together, thank goodness.
In my 50s, I started to have a couple glasses nightly of wine, and by my late 50s I could EASILY down a bottle daily, and want more. And couldn’t get enough, I wanted to get Drunk.
I couldn’t believe it happened to me. But it did.
And I wanted to get sober for me, like you did, And so I have, and I’m constantly trying to better myself, and give myself the love and care I deserve, and I do. It feels great.
So I served both roles, the “holier than thou” , and then became the sneaky, lying, deceitful drunk myself.
The role I like best is taking care of, and loving, myself —as a sober person, and consequently, my life is pretty good. Stressful, not perfect, but pretty good because my soul feels cared for.
Big hugs, Shamrock ♥️🤓
Shamrock, we are here for you, and many of us have been on both sides of the coin, like you, recovering from a toxic relationship with alcohol, AFTER we became addicted.
For me, in my 30s and 40s, I didn’t problem drink, but slowly, ever so slowly, and then….VERY QUICKLY, I crossed that invisible, sneaky line that we cross called addiction. I had an alcoholic husband, and I didn’t understand why he had to drink Thursday through Tuesday. That was his weekend. (I was so naive, I didn’t realize he was drinking ALL day, every day). When he went to rehab, and everyone in the Al Anon circle at the hospital was answering the posed question, “so what will you do when (not if) your loved one relapses?” All around me, murmurs of “oh, stick by them, understand, ……”. When it came to me, I said, “I’m gone”. And he did, and I was. I think he might be dead now, we didn’t have any children together, thank goodness.
In my 50s, I started to have a couple glasses nightly of wine, and by my late 50s I could EASILY down a bottle daily, and want more. And couldn’t get enough, I wanted to get Drunk.
I couldn’t believe it happened to me. But it did.
And I wanted to get sober for me, like you did, And so I have, and I’m constantly trying to better myself, and give myself the love and care I deserve, and I do. It feels great.
So I served both roles, the “holier than thou” , and then became the sneaky, lying, deceitful drunk myself.
The role I like best is taking care of, and loving, myself —as a sober person, and consequently, my life is pretty good. Stressful, not perfect, but pretty good because my soul feels cared for.
Big hugs, Shamrock ♥️🤓
I did come to terms with the fact, this weekend, that she is addicted. I still go back to my original statement that she did not do this when I drank--all of the years of our marriage. I don't know how much more dysfunctional you can get to start problematically drinking when it coincides with your husband's sobriety for the first time in his life, but she is doing it and I am living in it. It is here. It is for sure.
I DO love myself and I am also a very spiritual man. I love God and family above all, then close friends. I need to put myself in there, right after GOD. I have worked my butt off to get sober and the dividends have been incredible. If this has stirred something within her that she can't handle, then we have problems, because I will never go back. I will live my 50s and beyond just like I have 3 years ago when I started this amazing journey--with our without her, as U2 sings............but I CAN live.....with or without her. Which is going to be is up to her and she WILL own her responsibilities. Of this I know. Thanks for your support. You guys are amazing on here!!
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So yesterday was interesting. It was actually a good day. Maybe not for my wife, but for me. I woke up and got a ton of things done, and was super excited to get NINE hours of sleep Friday night because I have major insomnia, especially when the seasons change. I have had this since I was a little boy. I washed clothes, made coffee, and did literally everything I needed to do. The house is sparkling. Don't care right now if she is helping, I am not living in a messy home. We have NEVER done that, and I was not raised that way.
The clock kept ticking by and she did not wake up. Ever since her unemployment she has slept later and later, which is bizarre for me because she was always an early riser. I know it is definitely due to depression (which we go to doctors for) but I know it is also because she was very drunk Friday night when I woke up late at 11:30 to find her in the den, drunk, which she had not been before I fell asleep about 9:00 Friday night.
She did not wake up until 2pm. I felt myself boiling a bit, but I was NOT going to wake her up, even if she slept until today (Sunday). So, she finally got up at 2:00 and was whining that her back hurt. My only retort was, "Mine would too if I slept 14 hours---if you want coffee, you'll have to make your own. I had mine 5 hours ago."
Then she lay on the sofa for at least an hour while I was on my computer (mainly SR). Finally, she asked me what I wanted for dinner. She offered to cook, and said she wanted to make a special meal for me since my birthday is Monday. At first I saw it as manipulative, and it still may have been, but I have been cooking for a number of weeks now, so I thanked her and told her we could go to the store together.
Our errands were very quiet but she did go with me. SHE KNOWS SOMETHING IS AMISS. She's a very bright person. She probed me with questions and I don't do the passive aggressive silent treatment so I was kind and answered them and talked to her a bit.
We got home about 6 pm and she made an AMAZING meal. It was really wonderful and we watched a movie afterward. Then...........she opened a bottle of wine. I did not say anything but I clenched my teeth. It took her (I paid attention) one hour and fifteen minutes to drink the bottle of wine and she is very petite. She did not seem very buzzed but then again, she is used to drinking more now. Then the question, or rather the statement: "I'm going to need the card for another bottle of wine." I turned the remote off, looked at her, and said, "You are not getting the card, and you are not getting another bottle of wine. You are not driving under the influence and you already had a bottle of wine KNOWiNG that we had a sweet day and KNOWING how intense the weekend and past weeks have been." She looked at me, flopped the sofa pillow down, and went to bed. Good for her. I stayed up another hour and went to bed in the guest room upstairs. I fell asleep quickly and was not fretting before I went to sleep.
I am sure she has some of her own money because we have our house account and we each have our own little "Mad Money" accounts. We shall see what she does today. I have already told her that when my family gets together tomorrow for my birthday she is not welcome to come if she is drinking. She has not said a word about that.
The clock kept ticking by and she did not wake up. Ever since her unemployment she has slept later and later, which is bizarre for me because she was always an early riser. I know it is definitely due to depression (which we go to doctors for) but I know it is also because she was very drunk Friday night when I woke up late at 11:30 to find her in the den, drunk, which she had not been before I fell asleep about 9:00 Friday night.
She did not wake up until 2pm. I felt myself boiling a bit, but I was NOT going to wake her up, even if she slept until today (Sunday). So, she finally got up at 2:00 and was whining that her back hurt. My only retort was, "Mine would too if I slept 14 hours---if you want coffee, you'll have to make your own. I had mine 5 hours ago."
Then she lay on the sofa for at least an hour while I was on my computer (mainly SR). Finally, she asked me what I wanted for dinner. She offered to cook, and said she wanted to make a special meal for me since my birthday is Monday. At first I saw it as manipulative, and it still may have been, but I have been cooking for a number of weeks now, so I thanked her and told her we could go to the store together.
Our errands were very quiet but she did go with me. SHE KNOWS SOMETHING IS AMISS. She's a very bright person. She probed me with questions and I don't do the passive aggressive silent treatment so I was kind and answered them and talked to her a bit.
We got home about 6 pm and she made an AMAZING meal. It was really wonderful and we watched a movie afterward. Then...........she opened a bottle of wine. I did not say anything but I clenched my teeth. It took her (I paid attention) one hour and fifteen minutes to drink the bottle of wine and she is very petite. She did not seem very buzzed but then again, she is used to drinking more now. Then the question, or rather the statement: "I'm going to need the card for another bottle of wine." I turned the remote off, looked at her, and said, "You are not getting the card, and you are not getting another bottle of wine. You are not driving under the influence and you already had a bottle of wine KNOWiNG that we had a sweet day and KNOWING how intense the weekend and past weeks have been." She looked at me, flopped the sofa pillow down, and went to bed. Good for her. I stayed up another hour and went to bed in the guest room upstairs. I fell asleep quickly and was not fretting before I went to sleep.
I am sure she has some of her own money because we have our house account and we each have our own little "Mad Money" accounts. We shall see what she does today. I have already told her that when my family gets together tomorrow for my birthday she is not welcome to come if she is drinking. She has not said a word about that.
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I get it. You did all the work. Made the amends. Did the things. Righted the ship. Worked your ass off to get better and on the other side is a partner who is now struggling with alcohol abuse/ ism/ whatever its called. It doesnt matter the name. Its a problem. A big giant glaring obnoxious problem. So, ya. WTF? Like, WTF?
Now you're in boundary mode and making changes. You dont want it to be this way but this is what it is. I am sorry. I wish it was different for you. I think you are deserving of having these healthy things you have worked so hard for.
Perhaps your wife will get the message. She may need some really strong boundaries to understand that you're not playing. This is not a joke. Its your life and you want better for yourself. You want better for her. Just better all around. There is nothing wrong with that. You want her to want better for her. We can hope she "Sees the light" and makes the decision to promote positive life affirming change. It takes a lot to get the message. It took me over a decade.
I admire your "the gloves are off" mode. I too am this way when I need to be. I firmly believe we are meant to overcome our challenges. I know you will WIN over this.
Just sending some understanding from Cali.
Now you're in boundary mode and making changes. You dont want it to be this way but this is what it is. I am sorry. I wish it was different for you. I think you are deserving of having these healthy things you have worked so hard for.
Perhaps your wife will get the message. She may need some really strong boundaries to understand that you're not playing. This is not a joke. Its your life and you want better for yourself. You want better for her. Just better all around. There is nothing wrong with that. You want her to want better for her. We can hope she "Sees the light" and makes the decision to promote positive life affirming change. It takes a lot to get the message. It took me over a decade.
I admire your "the gloves are off" mode. I too am this way when I need to be. I firmly believe we are meant to overcome our challenges. I know you will WIN over this.
Just sending some understanding from Cali.
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Originally Posted by Shamrock51
.... But I can be a very intense person, and unwavering....
I wish you each the peace and loving relationship you deserve.
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Originally Posted by Caramel
Were these facets of your personality attractive to your wife when you first met?
I wish you each the peace and loving relationship you deserve.
I wish you each the peace and loving relationship you deserve.
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Originally Posted by Shamrock51
Yes, we've only ever had sweet interactions. All of this going on is very sad. But I am going to have to be intense with the boundary-setting, because nothing else is working (and that may not work). I'm a very kind-natured person.
Some of my boundaries were:
1.) I will not purchase alcohol for you or keep alcohol in my home. If you feel the need to drink, you will have to make the purchase on your own and drink outside of my living space.
2.) If you bring alcohol into my home, I will ask you get rid of it or leave. If you will not leave, I will. If this occurs more than once, I will not live with you.
3.) I will not be around you if you are drinking. If you choose to drink, I choose to be elsewhere. I will not use my presence as a tacit stamp of approval for behavior that is problematic for me.
4.) I will not discuss drinking with you as it accomplishes nothing. If you start to talk about alcohol, I will suggest you call a friend/relative, go to a meeting, or speak to your therapist. I will change the subject. I will leave the room.
Shamrock, I am so sorry that your relationship is suffering. It sounds like your wife is in a dark place (unemployment, depression, substance abuse), and I have a lot of empathy for you both. My best advice is to take care of yourself (via healthy boundaries to protect your own serenity) while keeping in mind your own history of struggle. When I am unsettled by my spouse's behavior, I pray that I can show him the compassion I so often desire for myself. I am terrible at it, but I'm trying. If the unsettling continues, I'll need to make some different choices.
Alcoholism sucks. Recovery, for me, is a delicate balance of caring for myself without elevating myself over others. Whole-hearted self-love with humility. This is tough. I typically careen from one extreme to the other.
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Yes, everyone's posts have been very, very helpful, and TC's post is really resonating with me right now. Thank you all so much. I shall let you know how my birthday goes tomorrow. So far she says she is going and promises to not drink.
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Last night is the first night in a VERY long time that my wife did not drink. We had a discussion over dinner and I was just really frank with her about her drinking and my unhappiness. I told her it was not sustainable. Things must change. At first she was defensive and wanted to use my former drinking as an excuse for her behavior but I just halted it right there. To my surprise, she did not drink wine after dinner. We watched a movie and went to sleep, but I still slept in the guest room.
Today is my birthday and after work all of my family in town are going out to dinner. She told me again last night that she wants to go and that she will not drink. I'm a little on pins and needles believing her, but we shall see once I get home. I let her know that if I detected any drinking when I got home that she could not come. I know this for sure--she knows I am serious. We shall see what will happen tonight. Happy birthday to me! I deserve for this to be a great day. Happy sober day, all.
Today is my birthday and after work all of my family in town are going out to dinner. She told me again last night that she wants to go and that she will not drink. I'm a little on pins and needles believing her, but we shall see once I get home. I let her know that if I detected any drinking when I got home that she could not come. I know this for sure--she knows I am serious. We shall see what will happen tonight. Happy birthday to me! I deserve for this to be a great day. Happy sober day, all.
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Happy Birthday, Shamrock!
I hope that your celebration with family this evening is lovely.
I will say that, for myself, as intensely and incredibly difficult as admitting and overcoming my addiction was, it PALED in comparison to the pain I felt loving someone suffering through their own addiction. Granted, I was much younger and less aware then.
I could not remain in relationship with my late ex-husband. His drinking didn’t leave space for me or our child. He could not be relied upon. He was sick. Looking back now, I have a degree of understanding and compassion for him that I COULD NOT muster at the time of his disease. Sometimes that lack of compassion pains my heart, but I needed my poking hot anger to propel me out of the dysfunctional dance we were in. My emotions served their purposes. It was what it had to be.
Today, my anger is replaced with sorrow and memories of good times. He was a wonderful man who suffered. My righteous indignation hurt him terribly. It hurt me, too. I’ve made my posthumous amends to him for the shame I heaped upon a dying man’s head.
I do know that if my present partner were to engage in behaviors I couldn’t abide, I would voice my opinion clearly. Check my motives. Observe his response over some time. Leave him in peace if his path didn’t align with my own. I’m too messy to be kicking and screaming about what I perceive to be someone else’s mess.
I hope that your celebration with family this evening is lovely.
I will say that, for myself, as intensely and incredibly difficult as admitting and overcoming my addiction was, it PALED in comparison to the pain I felt loving someone suffering through their own addiction. Granted, I was much younger and less aware then.
I could not remain in relationship with my late ex-husband. His drinking didn’t leave space for me or our child. He could not be relied upon. He was sick. Looking back now, I have a degree of understanding and compassion for him that I COULD NOT muster at the time of his disease. Sometimes that lack of compassion pains my heart, but I needed my poking hot anger to propel me out of the dysfunctional dance we were in. My emotions served their purposes. It was what it had to be.
Today, my anger is replaced with sorrow and memories of good times. He was a wonderful man who suffered. My righteous indignation hurt him terribly. It hurt me, too. I’ve made my posthumous amends to him for the shame I heaped upon a dying man’s head.
I do know that if my present partner were to engage in behaviors I couldn’t abide, I would voice my opinion clearly. Check my motives. Observe his response over some time. Leave him in peace if his path didn’t align with my own. I’m too messy to be kicking and screaming about what I perceive to be someone else’s mess.
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Shamrock, have you considered getting additional support from AlAnon for yourself? It may help you through this time to take care of yourself and to find that gentle balance between compassion for your wife and protecting your boundaries. I would caution against rushing anything and allowing yourself enough time to heal and get clarity. These things do take time.
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Happy Birthday Shamrock 
hope you have a lovely evening 
ToughCs I love your posts. "Sometimes that lack of compassion pains my heart" I feel pain in my heart too when I look back at myself. Things I didn't do and should have done (or did do and shouldn't have done ! ). I still have to remind myself to err on the side of kindness when I get annoyed.
hope you have a lovely evening ToughCs I love your posts. "Sometimes that lack of compassion pains my heart" I feel pain in my heart too when I look back at myself. Things I didn't do and should have done (or did do and shouldn't have done ! ). I still have to remind myself to err on the side of kindness when I get annoyed.
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I love posts from ToughChoices too, and often reread them. I really related to this:
I'm waiting for Shamrock to let us know how the evening went. I hope well! 🙏
When I am unsettled by my spouse's behavior, I pray that I can show him the compassion I so often desire for myself.
I'm waiting for Shamrock to let us know how the evening went. I hope well! 🙏
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Hey everyone!
The birthday was a complete success. We all had such a nice time and my wife did not drink. I know we still have far to go, but that is two days in a row that she didn't drink and that she was thoughtful and present. It really made me happy. More later, but just wanted to check in that it was a success!!
The birthday was a complete success. We all had such a nice time and my wife did not drink. I know we still have far to go, but that is two days in a row that she didn't drink and that she was thoughtful and present. It really made me happy. More later, but just wanted to check in that it was a success!!
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