freedomfries

I'm on antabuse. I can't get drunk. I can only have one and a half cans without getting sick. So why is my AV saying, "go get a couple of cans". I won't even enjoy one and a half cans. I won't get a buzz. And I'll have to reset my sobriety counter and I'll be disappointed with myself. And my parents will be disappointed.

I'm not going to get the cans. I'm going to wake up tomorrow on day 11. I could understand if I wasn't on antabuse, the AV would want to be drunk. But I can't get drunk on antabuse. So why won't my AV leave me alone. I don't enjoy 1.5 cans. I get nothing out of it only regret and self-loathing. You'd think the antabuse would quieten the AV but it persists.

Fusion

FF, I've never taken Antabuse, but having researched it, it seems it would have zilch effect upon the AV - because Antabuse's sole purpose is to make one sick when consuming alcohol - as a deterrent. Look it up yourself, the manufactures don't profess it quietens the AV, the desire to drink. I stopped drinking by researching alcohols effect upon the brain, effectively learned behaviour, conditioning: then discovered and applied a technique that identified and ignored the learned behaviour. It's not easy at first, and to be honest, it takes practice, repetition - which is the same process that got me addicted in the first place. It takes time.

stickyone

I never took antabuse but from what I understand it only helps with the cravings and symptoms. It's not the magic cure for addiction where when you take it everything goes away. There is something personal deeper I believethat is causing these thoughts and emotions from your av to tell you it's okay to just have a few. Hope everything works out one day at a time.

tursiops999

It only ever wants one thing, to get you to drink. It has no ability to think or reason or weigh the consequences. You could be on death's door, literally the very next drink will kill you, and it will still want you to drink. It's stupid.

Choicy

My AV wants attention. Always.
And then it wants to dominate, deconstruct and completely destroy me.

The Higher Power that lives deeply within is the only Power that has kept me alive.

Learning to tell the difference between my AV and Our HP is front and center every step of the Day.

The only way I've found a way to Our HP's quiet, confident voice is
by working the steps and listening & sharing with the still suffering
that are willing to try another way to live. Recovery.

Anna

Antabuse may be a tool that helps you, but it will not deal with the AV and it's not a magic cure. The AV will persist until it understands that you are serious about not drinking ever again and that will take time. 11 days of sobriety is great, but your AV is on full alert waiting for you to drop the ball. Hang in there and stay strong. That's the way to do it.

GerandTwine

Hi ff,

Your Beast is very happy that YOU have just stated “I won’t even enjoy one and a half cans. I won’t get a buzz.” And that you said “I get nothing out of it...”

Here you are suggesting for your Beast that once you’re off antabuse YOU WILL get something out of it (that wonderful deep pleasure of drunkenness).

Your AV LOVES that you are on antabuse. This is an essential understanding in AVRT. The AV will point out the following beliefs IT wants antabuse users to think, “Hah! You can’t keep from drinking without taking antabuse!” “You really have NO will against drinking without antabuse.” “What you mean to say is “I will never drink again, and I will never change my mind, as long as I am on antabuse.” Your Beast knows you cannot take antabuse the rest of your life and it is happy to wait as long as you are on antabuse. The Beast and its desire is timeless, not really understanding time. It will be happy right now if you tell it “I will have a drink when I’m 85 years old.”

The Big Question about Antabuse and AVRT is: If you made a Big Plan, “I will never drink again, and I will never change my mind.” why would you need or even want to be on Antabuse? Your Beast wants you to think you must be on Antabuse to not drink.

The reason I haven’t brought up your being on Antabuse before is because I suspected your parents were, to some degree, requiring you to take it; and that is different than you believing you must take it in order keep yourself from drinking.

Your addictive voice has been encouraged by your saying you either don’t hear it, or when you do, it bothers YOU, and IT continues to wait until you are off Antabuse.

Having an Addictive Voice is NOT a sign that you are defective or unhealthy, it is a sign that you have a functioning appetite center seeking pleasure, but that one particular pleasure has been determined to be absolutely WRONG for you to ever seek out again. Think about it, freedomfries, YOU will never experience that pleasure from being inebriated by ethanol, EVER AGAIN. This is what you have accepted for yourself. YOU know it is right, and you can feel a HUGE opportunity for success in your life. IT wants you to feel very sad that that whole part of your past being is now gone and its memories will fade with time.

And again, I bring up the verb tense trick the Addictive Voice uses and suggest you rewrite your post with the correct verb tenses for someone who DOES have a Big Plan.

GT

freedomfries

I realize taking antabuse doesn't make sense for someone with a big plan. But I just think I need that extra barrier in the early days. When I get more sober time I'll stop taking the antabuse.

I know taking antabuse doesn't really gel with my big plan, but I'm just not ready to let go of this crutch just yet.

Obladi

Hi ff,
I've heard approximately the same thing from Tatsy about Antabuse - that continuing to take it is in service to my beast. (Tatsy, bear with me - I'm paraphrasing for sure.) I just want to provide an alternate viewpoint from my experience. Plus a tiny bit of pharmaceutical knowledge.

You're correct that you will likely gain no enjoyment from drinking while you are on Antabuse - the physical symptoms brought on are truly wretched. I don't know of anyone who would be able to enjoy drinking whilst beat red, dry heaving and feeling like their heart is beating out of their chest. It's no picnic, that. But you, the real You is also correct that your beast would definitely enjoy the sensation of being buzzed or drunk if drinking didn't make you violently ill. That's just facts.

The entire point of AVRT is to make a distinction between what It (the beast) wants and what I want and to disregard the beast's wants as irrelevant. To me, that means I recognize that there is a physiological process going on in my brain that can dupe me into believing that addiction (It) is Me. It's very strange to understand that I am not my thoughts, but the AV is a perfect example of how that can be so.

I don't know about you, but my experience is that my AV doesn't really have feelings. I mean it can act like it has feelings very convincingly, but that's it's function. AV speaks for the beast; that's its only reason for being, right? AV didn't love it that I was on Antabuse, nor did it hate it. AV is neutral in regard to anything but expressing the deep unwavering insistent want of the beast and convincing me that I need what the beast wants. AV may use the fact that you are taking antabuse as some sort of ploy, "You know you'd be drinking if it weren't for the Antabuse," but I suspect You are smart enough to see through that as a pretty lame ruse. Really, that's some weak-butt amateur stuff in the lexicon of the AV in my experience.

What does your AV want? Nothing. Its job is to convince you that you must drink; its function is to get you to fall for the malarkey of the beast who believes that you (It) can not get through life without alcohol.

In fact, as long as your liver functions aren't impacted, I have it on good medical authority that a person can indeed take Antabuse indefinitely. There is absolutely no reason that you need to do so, but having made the Big Plan, there is absolutely no reason that you need to stop either. Antabuse does not have any physiological impact on cravings. It's prophylactic; you make a conscious decision every day to ingest the pill. The fact of taking that pill can be used effectively by your AV - or not. I don't intend for this to become a debate about AVRT (there's an entire subforum dedicated to that topic, after all) or about medication prescribed by folks in the field of addiction; I just wanted to say that no other person can tell me that taking a pill (or working out or doing puzzles or taking up skydiving) is AV. AV is a voice, not an action. And I am the only person who can discern the difference. For me.

You've got a lot of stuff going on, ff. I wouldn't spend a lot of time wondering about what the AV or beast is up to or why. (I mean, I did, but that was just more AV. ) Your beast needs alcohol. Your AV speaks for It. I'm not sure that you or I will ever fully extinguish the beast but I can assure you that Its voice does get less and less insistent and bothersome over time once you truly internalize that it doesn't matter At All what the beast wants.

O

Fusion

FF, I agree with O's above viewpoint, I raised a related point in the AVRT sub-forum this week, regarding which thoughts in my head are AV, or not. My stance is that nobody but me can discern which thoughts in my head, are AV, or not. That's not to say AVs don't have common playlists (I/you've worked so hard, let's have a drink, I/you deserve it). But each person who became addicted is unique, and consequently, their AVs have differences too - otherwise we'd all be pre-programmed robots, which we're clearly not.