LumenandNyx

My position is a bit different than most.

When you're ready to quit drinking, you will. I've been to therapists, psychiatrists, addiction recovery coaches, inpatient, outpatient, groups, meetings. hospitals and jail. Nothing helped me quit drinking until I decided to stop.

Seeing a psychiatrist is worth a go, but if you're not ready to stop drinking - no one and nothing is going to help you.

cerd2000

Wow, now that you say it, I feel like how true this statement is. I'm pumping several litres of scientific chemicals into my body every day (ethanol) and I'm worried about scientific prescription drugs. Actually that's really a big contradiction.

Are there really so many jobs that require a medical background check and visits at psychiatrists would be an immediate no-go? The only ones I can think of is military, police and pilots? I don't even think regular employers have the legal right to ask about my medical history, isn't it?

I talked about this a lot with my therapist and she says that she doesn't recommend me seeing a psychiatrist merely for getting prescription drugs, but primarily in order to have a second opinion of how I should proceed. Like a psychiatrist could recommend me what to do next. Whether it's prescription meds, AA or rehab. It's like a second professional opinion she says. You think that approach is good?

Yes, I highly suspect my alcohol addiction is merely a symptom from other underlying psychiatric disorders.

Honestly:

I drink because I feel depressed. I drink because I feel lonely. I drink because I can't get it on with women since several years. I drink because I'm unsatisfied with my social life and circle of friends. I drink because I feel like life and jobs have no meaning at all anymore and alcohol intoxication allows me to escape reality for a few hours. This is the naked truth of how I feel like over the last few years.

And several of you mentioned „inpatient/outpatient treatment programme“. What is that? You mean like hospitals that offer ambulant consultation hours for (alcohol) addicts?

Dee74

It maybe you have underlying reasons for drinking - like loneliness or whatever but I wouldn't dismiss your drinking merely as a symptom of something else. It needs attention too.

I drank for a host of reasons - I had to deal with those reasons sober - but I also had to deal with the nasty case of alcoholism I picked up along the way.

D

Obladi

So it sounds like your therapist thinks maybe you'll give more credence to what a medical professional might advise? Is that true? Do you need medical direction to believe that you might benefit from AA or rehab or whatever? If that's the case, get to the good doctor post-haste! I put great store in what medical professionals have to say to me - if they really know their stuff - so this isn't meant as a put-down, but as legitimate support for the suggestions of your therapist. Yes, it's a good approach.

There is absolutely no reason you can't pursue additional help, with or without the say-so of the doctor, and I suspect you know that. Dee's right - first things first. You can have an understanding that your drinking is due to underlying issues, but you still need to eliminate the booze first. It's like.. you have to stop any other compulsive behavior to deal with the psychological reasons that compulsion is necessary. In fact, it's when people are forced to stop their process compulsions (OCD stuff), that is exactly when they are able to see what's behind those behaviors. So whatever it's going to take to stop drinking, do that. I spent 8 weeks in rehab and another 3 months in a sober living home - that physical commitment to not drinking was absolutely critical for me to find the crap that was behind the drinking - and learn to live with it.

IOP = intensive outpatient treatment. It's a program that one attends for several hours multiple times each week focusing on group therapy for addicted people. I suspect you are not in the US, so don't know if that's a thing wherever you are.

cerd2000

My therapist mostly wants me to see a psychiatrist, because she thinks I'm in need of prescription drugs (against depression and insomnia) and she is not allowed to prescribe any medication. That's the main reason.

I always ask myself all of the time since several years what originally started and caused me to be in this current bad mental state. Like did depression/insomnia cause my alcohol addiction or is it the other way around? What is the central reason?

It's like all those 3 things began at the exact same time during my youth and I never managed to improve on any of it and they all fuel each other. It's like feeling depressed in the evening leads me to drink alcohol, if I can't sleep at night it leads me to alcohol and even if I drink alcohol on an evening/weekend/vacation where I'm actually feeling good, it makes me feel depressed very quickly. The depressive thoughts and sleepless nights lead to alcohol and vice versa. Like a vicious, endless circle.

I only get a proper amount of sleep maximum 1-2 times a week and on all of the other days I either sleep only 3-6 hours or some nights nothing at all. This sleeping pattern is going on since 5 years now. It drains my energy and the alcohol doesn't help of course. If you don't properly sleep for years, your brain turns to zombie-mode and that's how I feel every day. Without sleep you get dumber by the day and your memory slows down like you are becoming a demented person.

Some of you wrote that prescription meds don't properly work while still drinking alcohol? In which way? Like could it actually damage me even more, when a psychiatrist prescribes me antidepressants or sleeping pills while I still go on drinking every day?

fini

cerd, you are unlikely to get the real benefit from therapy or psych drugs while drinking. i don’t know about damage from the drugs while drinking.
i do know about damage to you from drinking.
you have a lot of questions re whether to get prescription drugs, see a psychiatrist, possible drug interactions....how about facing a decision on quitting drinking, doing that and THEN the therapy can focus on what ails you, and so can any prescription drugs.
you could decide to tackle that. without sobriety, “fixing” the other stuff is not really doable.

DriGuy

A psychiatrist can prescribe drugs and almost always has more training. They may or may not be better at doing psychotherapy than your therapist. Psychotherapy is kind of like an art. There are some very gifted therapists who are about as good as you can find. I can think of two reasons why you might change horses at this point:

1) to find a different therapist who is more capable with dealing with your issues
2) because you could benefit from drug therapy

Your current therapist is probably aware of some reason you need to get different help.

Robbie64

I saw a psychiatrist a number of years ago. I was referred by my Doctor for anxiety issues and depression. I found it very useful but he said that unless I stopped drinking my problems would persist. He referred me on to the local community addiction team (sadly now closed due to funding cuts). It worked for a while and I got sober for almost 5 months. But as soon as I started drinking again my problems eventually returned.

Obladi

So you're confusing me. Earlier upstream you say she's referring you not so much for medications as for other recommendations. Now you say she's referring you for meds. Either way makes sense.

Alcohol interferes with our brains - we know this. So it makes sense that if you are drinking, psych meds aren't going to work like they would without the alcohol. My psychiatrist prescribed meds he thought would be helpful even when he knew I was drinking, so I'm sure he wasn't concerned about damage being done to me with those prescriptions. The guy specializes in addiction. But I think any reasonable person can understand that drinking on meds is like running on shoes with bad soles. You can get there, but not as quickly and not as comfortably, and in fact you might just give up the race because your feet still hurt.

What's the hold up in actually going to the psychiatrist? What is it you fear?

cerd2000

Yes, now that I re-read it, it sounds like a contradiction.

Truth is, my therapist wants to send me to a psychiatrist since over 1 year, primarily because she thinks I can't handle my depressive/suicidal thoughts and insomnia without meds anymore. She also thinks I need a strong, second professional opinion about the state of my alcohol addiction.

I've been to therapy for many years and since like 1-2 years I hardly made any progress. All my addictions and insomnia got only worse since then. Maybe that's the main reason she wants to send me somewhere else. I personally think that she is also overstrained (dont't know whether that's the correct English term, but you know what I mean?) with me. Every therapy session sounds the same and there is hardly any progress. It's like I'm in a stagnancy since 1-2 years.

To be really honest, if I go to a psychiatrist now in September, I don't think I will be able to ditch alcohol at the same time. I made a little research and I also read that alcohol interferes with a lot of psychiatric drugs. Either slowing them down or dangerously increasing them (like benzos).

But from what you wrote though, it sounds like even an active alcoholic can benefit from taking psychiatric meds? Any certain type of psychiatric drugs they prescribed to you specifically for alcohol addicts?

I can explain the hold up easily:

Going to a psychiatrist feels like equal to a huge personal failure to me. I tried bettering my life for over a decade now, I reluctantly consulted a therapist for several years and yet never succeeded on all of my own promises.

I have the feeling there's so much shame in it, especially as a male. And besides that, I'm terribly afraid of taking antidepressants because of side effects I read about. Probably this prejudice is completely unfounded, but this fear always appears.

fini

cerd, i think that pretty much drinking alcoholically just leaves us stuck in pretty much every way. there is no real way for therapy to do much, as we keep using our screwed up “coping mechanism” instead of really making changes.
looking back, i can see that i tried to change a bunch of stuff while still drinking, but that the reason i tried to change other things wasn’t solely in order to be “better”, but so that things would be better and i could keep drinking in my life.

Obladi

Thanks cerd,

It's clear to me from that last post that your addiction is speaking for you. "It" (the addiction) will contradict itself, It will employ your fear, It will use your male self-sufficient pride, It is convincingly irrational. I know this because I used to let my addiction speak for me as well. I'm not a fan of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (for me, but that's a different story), but one of the things that method offers is examining irrational beliefs.

Does it make any sense:
- That you don't want to see a psychiatrist because you are concerned that you might not be able to stop drinking? No. In fact, I'd challenge "It" (the addiction) and guess that maybe It's true fear is that you will stop drinking. And while you dearly want to stop, you almost equally don't want to stop. No shame in that - that's the very definition of addiction.
- That you are afraid of meds because of all of the things you've read online? No. You know that you will find negative reports about anything if you do online research. People tend to be much more vocal when they are complaining than when they are satisfied. Also, we've already covered that fear of meds is ridiculous when compared to the risk you are facing by continuing to pour a toxic substance down your throat. And yeah, you definitely should not take benzos. No shrink worth their salt would prescribe them to an alcoholic without giving other meds a good solid chance to take hold.
- That you (It) keep changing the reasons you should go see the shrink? Nope, but it doesn't matter what the reason is. Not sure what kind of game It's playing with you on this one, but I'm guessing It keeps coming up with different reasons to distract you and keep you busy refuting whatever those varying reasons are.
- That you (It) believes that seeking additional help constitutes failure? Of course not. You've been seeing a counselor for years who doesn't seem to have been tremendously helpful in any regard. You haven't failed - you just haven't found the right help yet. And if you want to put it that way, aren't you in fact "failing" by continuing to drink?

Yes, I benefited from antidepressants and anti-anxiety meds even while I was drinking. The problem was that it became an either/or proposition for me - either I was taking my meds or I was drinking. They certainly don't help if you don't take them.

I think dwtbd suggested that you read up on Rational Recovery in this forum. You can also find information by typing that into your browser search. If you haven't looked at that information, I highly recommend that you do. It helped me tremendously to understand what was going on in my brain.

I'm glad you keep posting, cerd. That's the mark of a person on the brink of succeeding.

O

Ringside

I went through a similar back and forth with therapists and psychiatrists and so on and so forth. Countless sessions discussing the concept that if only I could be less anxious and depressed, I would stop drinking problematically. How can I be less depressed and less anxious? Change jobs? End a relationship? Move? Etc. It took me a while, but I finally discovered I had it 100% backwards - nothing helped me until I stopped drinking and began actively taking steps to live a life without alcohol. Only then did therapy really begin to enhance my understanding of myself, and today I find it incredibly valuable. But I had to stop drinking first, and I needed support that a medical professional could not give to accomplish that.

Aellyce

I agree with many of the points in the posts above. I did a lot of psychotherapy earlier in my sobriety and through a relapse, but I didn't find it helpful to beat my addiction - for me, it more became another addiction-like thing. With some reflection though, I realized I didn't choose the right professionals for my needs and personality either, also the wrong modalities for me. Still learned from it a lot in general, especially regarding how I sometimes choose people who are not a good combo with me and how I self-sabotage with engaging in the wrong way. I think I have a much better idea now what sort of therapy/therapist would work for me, in case I ever feel the need to try again. Regardless, we still need to make most of the effort, therapy or even psych meds are not magical solutions that will just resolve everything like a pill we can take for a fever, high blood pressure, or similar things. I personally see them more as possible aids, not solutions.

biminiblue

One thing I've seen a lot on these and other mental health forums is the part about gender.

I have done a little therapy - didn't find it very useful, but what I did find is that it was far better for me to talk to someone of my own gender with whom I did not feel a sexual tension thing.

So many people become enamored with doctors, therapists, psychologists, psychiatrists, clergy, etc.

Just find someone who seems to be smart, engaged, and an expert in addiction.

Aellyce

I also see this in most many health communities and as advice. Not so applicable to myself though (and, I imagine, for many other queer folks) as there is no such category in terms of gender that I can't find attractive on some personal level, whether sexual or friendly, if I like many features and we are compatible. One thing I find important though is to have so things in common in thinking and emotional style. Not too much, as that can lead to the problem if everyone's being blind to our own issues, but a reasonable amount, so that we can communicate well and are not misunderstood all the time. In my past choices of therapists, of the two I'd worked with longer, one was way too similar to me and the other so different we just clashed in every way and were frustrated with each-other all the time.

LumenandNyx

Wow. This thread has gotten really long.

Here's the thing. If you think you have a problem with alcohol - treat it like you would ANY OTHER PROBLEM

SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

What does that look like?

Stop drinking. That's it. Stop making this such a colossal epic thing. It doesn't have to be. If you can turn your attitude around a bit and just - stop drinking alcohol - you can get on with your life and start addressing the other issues without the complication of alcohol being present.

Right now you're talking therapist, doctors, reasons, causes, how to, when, yada yada yada.

Just stop drinking.

Obladi

For some of us, it's not quite so easy as "just stop drinking." (Not saying that's easy, by any means, but it surely seems to be that simple for some.)

I could not, in fact, solve it like any other problem. That was frustrating and confusing and demoralizing for me. To an extent that is impossible to describe if you haven't been there.

There was a boatload of work for me that was immediate and relevant. Had I not confronted the demons that "drove me to drink" (and put others away for the time being) I would not have been successful. I know this to be a fact - for me - because I lived it. For years.

LumenandNyx

I tried to just stop drinking about 50 times. I finally stopped trying and just stopped. It was that easy - and that hard. I'm not suggesting quitting drinking is easy. But all a person has to ever do is not swallow alcohol. That's it. Then - do whatever else needs to be done.
I have been there. I was there for 23 years.
Congratulations on your sobriety.

Back to you Cerd ...

BornSpecial

Something to keep in mind - Psychiatry is the profession of multiple personalities, recovered memories, and hypnosis.

Historically, the most famous psychiatrist was a fraud. Coincidentally, the largest modern scientific scandal was committed by a psychologist. He made up hundreds of fake scientific studies from scratch, had them published in the most prestigious journals, and thousands of other scientific studies by thousands of other psychologists were build atop those fraudulent studies, and it all went completely unnoticed until a statistician was able to prove the studies were physically impossible. It was wall admitted, but nothing has really been thrown out. It's a very entrenched field. It's very political.

All health insurance policies are required to cover mental health, and they're required to cover mental health at full financial parity with physical health. It's good for some people. Some people liked to be shrinked. They go for fun. Other people would never go no matter what. It's not a risk for the vast majority of the population. But it's propped up by powerful forces. The pharmaceutical corporations love it. Anti-depressants are the 3rd most-prescribed class of drugs.

Research the drugs they give out. Don't just look for proclamations by prestigious authorities about how great they are. Look for mechanisms of action. Try to find a website that explains, convincingly, how the drugs work. It will probably raise more questions than it answers. If you block serotonin, won't your body compensate? People don't get cured. They get put on drugs for life, and when you get numb to one, there's always a new one to switch to.

This is not science. But you put on that white lab coat, people have so much faith in you. You can get away with murder. They did that too, after they got their fill by torturing the patients in the mental hospitals. These are sadistic people.