Thirty year anniversary and still baffled. I have a question.
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Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Colorado
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Thirty year anniversary and still baffled. I have a question.
Thanks in advance for reading this, and responding if you will.
Today marks exactly 30 years since I my last drink. Never did drugs or weed or pills or anything else, just drink. Well, I smoked cigarettes since I was fourteen...Chesterfield Kings, Lucky Strikes, Galouis in those classy blue packages for a while (we thought it was cool because Picasso chain smoked Galouis)...but I quit smoking on Ash Wednesday about five or six months after my last drink. Not a good time to quit. Don’t try it. I digress.
I believe I crossed the line of no return by the time I was just 17. I remember finding myself walking down the block to the liquor store for a quart of Miller High Life, all the way thinking it was bad for me, but still feeling a deep down compulsion to do it anyway. It was like being two persons. One aware, knowing what was good for me, and the other forcing me to do the opposite.
Since I quit drinking, I’ve had no cravings; never had a relapse, unless you count the hundreds of times I tried to quit on my own (I was a daily maintenance drinker and the “quitting” never lasted for more than a day). No cravings or relapses is nothing I’m proud of. I was so thoroughly destroyed by alcohol and my battle against the bottle that I finally completely accepted that I had crossed the line and could not control it. Then, the next day, I asked for help, followed advice, and I was on my way.
In these 30 years I continued making a lot of painful and difficult mistakes, but all in all I forged a good and productive life, which, actually, I am proud of. At least I’m a man now, not a jackass. You know, making mistakes is better than other outcomes; had I continued drinking I’d have been dead long long long ago, or, worse, killed somebody with my drinking/driving and had to live with myself.
I don’t know why I quit drinking when I did, and I seriously doubt I will ever know. I don’t care. I don’t drink.
Here’s what baffles me, and this is a question to anyone who cares to give me your thoughts or instincts or insight, whatever: I still do things that aren’t in my own best interest. Why would I or anyone else feel compelled to do something that is clearly not good, much less act on that feeling? I’m not expecting to be perfect, and I know some of it is human nature, but, seriously? why act in ways that put self-imposed limitations on the potential that’s there?
It’s so baffling to me that I don’t even know if my question makes any sense.
p.s. by the way, my name is John.
Today marks exactly 30 years since I my last drink. Never did drugs or weed or pills or anything else, just drink. Well, I smoked cigarettes since I was fourteen...Chesterfield Kings, Lucky Strikes, Galouis in those classy blue packages for a while (we thought it was cool because Picasso chain smoked Galouis)...but I quit smoking on Ash Wednesday about five or six months after my last drink. Not a good time to quit. Don’t try it. I digress.
I believe I crossed the line of no return by the time I was just 17. I remember finding myself walking down the block to the liquor store for a quart of Miller High Life, all the way thinking it was bad for me, but still feeling a deep down compulsion to do it anyway. It was like being two persons. One aware, knowing what was good for me, and the other forcing me to do the opposite.
Since I quit drinking, I’ve had no cravings; never had a relapse, unless you count the hundreds of times I tried to quit on my own (I was a daily maintenance drinker and the “quitting” never lasted for more than a day). No cravings or relapses is nothing I’m proud of. I was so thoroughly destroyed by alcohol and my battle against the bottle that I finally completely accepted that I had crossed the line and could not control it. Then, the next day, I asked for help, followed advice, and I was on my way.
In these 30 years I continued making a lot of painful and difficult mistakes, but all in all I forged a good and productive life, which, actually, I am proud of. At least I’m a man now, not a jackass. You know, making mistakes is better than other outcomes; had I continued drinking I’d have been dead long long long ago, or, worse, killed somebody with my drinking/driving and had to live with myself.
I don’t know why I quit drinking when I did, and I seriously doubt I will ever know. I don’t care. I don’t drink.
Here’s what baffles me, and this is a question to anyone who cares to give me your thoughts or instincts or insight, whatever: I still do things that aren’t in my own best interest. Why would I or anyone else feel compelled to do something that is clearly not good, much less act on that feeling? I’m not expecting to be perfect, and I know some of it is human nature, but, seriously? why act in ways that put self-imposed limitations on the potential that’s there?
It’s so baffling to me that I don’t even know if my question makes any sense.
p.s. by the way, my name is John.
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: US
Posts: 5,095
Hmmm. Well, I think questions like that are easier to answer or relate to when they are more specific.
And yes, you are human. If you have had a good life, and you're 47 (so still young) there is always opportunity for change. Drinking is just that. Life is still life.
BTW congrats on 30 years.
And yes, you are human. If you have had a good life, and you're 47 (so still young) there is always opportunity for change. Drinking is just that. Life is still life.
BTW congrats on 30 years.
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Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 1,312
Congrats on 30 years!! That’s amazing! I only have (almost) 15 months so not nearly as long as you, but I have noticed that I have addictive tendencies.
I cam can feel the same “beast” and lack of control when it comes to cookies and coffee. There are times that I cannot stop eating cookies. I recognize my response as my same response to alcohol. Same with smoking.
Personally, I think I’m hard-wired for addiction. I can over do, or over consume, anything.
I’m in the middle of fighting my cookie addiction, have tried to fight the smoking addiction several times, and try to remind myself not to overdo anything.
I don't know if that is what you mean by doing things that are bad for you.
I cam can feel the same “beast” and lack of control when it comes to cookies and coffee. There are times that I cannot stop eating cookies. I recognize my response as my same response to alcohol. Same with smoking.
Personally, I think I’m hard-wired for addiction. I can over do, or over consume, anything.
I’m in the middle of fighting my cookie addiction, have tried to fight the smoking addiction several times, and try to remind myself not to overdo anything.
I don't know if that is what you mean by doing things that are bad for you.
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 349
CR,
I see sobriety as just part of my continuing journey to be a better person today than yesterday. But it is only a part. In the same way, I see alcoholism as one of the many ways that I expressed my own self-destructive and selfish tendencies. But again, it is only a part of those character traits that I view as negative and want to change.
If I understand your question, part of the human experience for me is identifying my own bias, selfishness, and other limitations, and take action to mitigate or eliminate them. In other words, I make bad choices because I’m human. But on the flip side, I try each day to do better because I’m human. But I suspect that identifying shortcomings and striving to do better will be lifelong.
Sometimes we’re our own worst enemy, ya’ know?
-bora
I see sobriety as just part of my continuing journey to be a better person today than yesterday. But it is only a part. In the same way, I see alcoholism as one of the many ways that I expressed my own self-destructive and selfish tendencies. But again, it is only a part of those character traits that I view as negative and want to change.
If I understand your question, part of the human experience for me is identifying my own bias, selfishness, and other limitations, and take action to mitigate or eliminate them. In other words, I make bad choices because I’m human. But on the flip side, I try each day to do better because I’m human. But I suspect that identifying shortcomings and striving to do better will be lifelong.
Sometimes we’re our own worst enemy, ya’ know?
-bora
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Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Colorado
Posts: 347
Originally Posted by entropy1964 
... and you're 47 (so still young) ....
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Join Date: Mar 2014
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I agree with everyone so far, I think we're hard-wired to have a lazy, counter-productive side.
I don't learn unless I do the "bad" thing and have to deal with the consequences, and I don't always do the right thing even then! The naughty inner imp is always there, wanting its freedom to do its bidding.
Huge congrats on that 30 years.
I don't learn unless I do the "bad" thing and have to deal with the consequences, and I don't always do the right thing even then! The naughty inner imp is always there, wanting its freedom to do its bidding.
Huge congrats on that 30 years.
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I appreciate very much the nice comments about my 30 years, I really am very proud of that, and I love life.
My question goes not just to addictive behaviors, but Why wouldn't anybody do things that are GOOD? Like, for instance, just getting enough exercise?
You know, you could say life is centered around bad stuff being easier than good stuff. If you'll forgive a golf analogy, it's one hell of a lot easier to make three bogies in a row than to make three birdies in a row. Or, it's a lot easier, for instance, to gain ten lbs than it is to lose ten lbs!
My question goes not just to addictive behaviors, but Why wouldn't anybody do things that are GOOD? Like, for instance, just getting enough exercise?
You know, you could say life is centered around bad stuff being easier than good stuff. If you'll forgive a golf analogy, it's one hell of a lot easier to make three bogies in a row than to make three birdies in a row. Or, it's a lot easier, for instance, to gain ten lbs than it is to lose ten lbs!
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Originally Posted by ColoradoRocky
I appreciate very much the nice comments about my 30 years, I really am very proud of that, and I love life.
My question goes not just to addictive behaviors, but Why wouldn't anybody do things that are GOOD? Like, for instance, just getting enough exercise?
My question goes not just to addictive behaviors, but Why wouldn't anybody do things that are GOOD? Like, for instance, just getting enough exercise?
The best exercise is the one I'll actually DO.
With that said, again on the laziness. I have to just do it. I have a spreadsheet with calories in and calories out and it helps me to have to log yesterday's activity and food every day, first thing in the morning. When I skip that for a couple days in a row I start slipping in general. It has to be a set-in-stone routine for me to keep it going.
Seen on a gym bag: Move and the heart will follow
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 15,238
Congrats of your 30 yr. sober accomplishment, John.
I'm one yr. behind you where I just celebrated my 29
yrs of continuous recovery and sobriety this past Aug. 11th
with the help of AA, a program of recovery taught to me
in a 28 day rehab stay.
We never stop learning new healthy ways to achieve
health, happiness and honesty on our journey in life.
SR is an awesome lifeline to add to our recovery
tool boxes so that we are never alone or by ourselves
while building a strong solid foundation to live upon
for yrs to come.
I'm one yr. behind you where I just celebrated my 29
yrs of continuous recovery and sobriety this past Aug. 11th
with the help of AA, a program of recovery taught to me
in a 28 day rehab stay.
We never stop learning new healthy ways to achieve
health, happiness and honesty on our journey in life.
SR is an awesome lifeline to add to our recovery
tool boxes so that we are never alone or by ourselves
while building a strong solid foundation to live upon
for yrs to come.
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 1,598
“At least I’m a man now, not a jackass”
-Colorado Rocky
Love it. First of all congratulations on being a productive member of society. I hope to return to those ranks some day.
As as far as counter productive behavior, I think it really has to do with our short vs long term reward center in our brains. I don’t think it is unique to addicts but we definitely have a strong response. You mentioned two things I think, eating and exercise.
With eating, it is rather easy to see why we would overeat or eat too many sweets. Many compare the release of brain and body chemicals while we eat chocolate to those released during an orgasm. Is it a surprise then that we might overindulge? We know full well we will put pounds on and feel bad about ourselves eventually, but that pleasure is just too alluring. And the flip side is that if we were to skip the snacks and exercise instead. Would the chemicals released when we saw our fit body in the mirror compare to those orgasmic pleasures we experience during a chocolate binge? Probably notMaybe this is it? I dunno.
By the way, it really is great to have you around though Rocky. I always enjoy and value your input.
-Colorado Rocky
Love it. First of all congratulations on being a productive member of society. I hope to return to those ranks some day.
As as far as counter productive behavior, I think it really has to do with our short vs long term reward center in our brains. I don’t think it is unique to addicts but we definitely have a strong response. You mentioned two things I think, eating and exercise.
With eating, it is rather easy to see why we would overeat or eat too many sweets. Many compare the release of brain and body chemicals while we eat chocolate to those released during an orgasm. Is it a surprise then that we might overindulge? We know full well we will put pounds on and feel bad about ourselves eventually, but that pleasure is just too alluring. And the flip side is that if we were to skip the snacks and exercise instead. Would the chemicals released when we saw our fit body in the mirror compare to those orgasmic pleasures we experience during a chocolate binge? Probably notMaybe this is it? I dunno.
By the way, it really is great to have you around though Rocky. I always enjoy and value your input.
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Originally Posted by ColoradoRocky
Why would I or anyone else feel compelled to do something that is clearly not good, much less act on that feeling?.
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Originally Posted by ColoradoRocky
Or, it's a lot easier, for instance, to gain ten lbs than it is to lose ten lbs!
It’s instinct to take the easy option, i.e. skip the gym for a week or so more until I’m less tired perhaps. But I know it’ll only get worse and pretty soon my clothes wouldn’t fit and I’d buy bigger ones. I’d soon be 20 pounds heavier. I’ve been there, and it’s far more work to shift that weight.
It’s the same with drinking. It’s a struggle to have cravings, and my instinct as an alcoholic (albeit one in remission) is to go get a drink. It’s only because I remember the pain of quitting that I stop myself.
I think the answer to your question is we take the easy path. My two examples above aren’t easy, but the alternatives (to be overweight, to be a drunk) are much harder.
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Originally Posted by ColoradoRocky
That gave me a good laugh...God I wish I were 47! I drank for almost 20 years and didn't finally quit until I was 35!
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Hodd: It’s instinct to take the easy option, i.e. skip the gym for a week or so more until I’m less tired perhaps. But I know it’ll only get worse and pretty soon my clothes wouldn’t fit and I’d buy bigger ones. I’d soon be 20 pounds heavier. I’ve been there, and it’s far more work to shift that weight.
biminiblue: When I skip that for a couple days in a row I start slipping in general. It has to be a set-in-stone routine for me to keep it going.
The key for me is to look for times when my nature wants to get me off of the right path. And forgiving myself for the small slips. And taking action before small slips become big falls. For example, I wish that sometimes I wasn’t so damn petty. Just let it go already! If I don’t stop and reconsider what I’m doing, it gets worse and worse. Then, I feel bad for my pettiness, and I feel guilty for not smacking myself upside the head earlier. A viscous cycle.
Again, sometimes I’m my own worst enemy.
-bora
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Congratulations on 30 years. As for acting against self interests, if you're doing it and consciously knowing it's going to backfire, that's something to think about now. It could be self sabotage as Ann points out, but gosh, it could be a lot of things because human behavior is quite complex.
I acted against my own self interests a lot in my younger days, and I regret it, but it's because I didn't think things through. The best I can do with it now is not make the same mistakes twice.
I acted against my own self interests a lot in my younger days, and I regret it, but it's because I didn't think things through. The best I can do with it now is not make the same mistakes twice.
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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Congrats on your remarkable journey in sobriety and achievement.
For me, the key to avoiding self-sabotage is to try to work really hard on the second part of Step 11, which is to try to learn and do God's will, minute by minute, every day.
We usually know what God's will is and what it isn't.
When I can't figure it out, I ask an AA friend for his or her thoughts on the matter.
This is a daily endeavor and I certainly fall short more than I should.
But the harder I work at these efforts (to learn and do God's will) and the harder I work at the first part of Step 11 (to try to develop and maintain a daily relationship with God), the better my life seems to go and the better I feel about me.
Great topic.
We're never completely cured and we have the same human instincts as everyone.
For me, the key to avoiding self-sabotage is to try to work really hard on the second part of Step 11, which is to try to learn and do God's will, minute by minute, every day.
We usually know what God's will is and what it isn't.
When I can't figure it out, I ask an AA friend for his or her thoughts on the matter.
This is a daily endeavor and I certainly fall short more than I should.
But the harder I work at these efforts (to learn and do God's will) and the harder I work at the first part of Step 11 (to try to develop and maintain a daily relationship with God), the better my life seems to go and the better I feel about me.
Great topic.
We're never completely cured and we have the same human instincts as everyone.
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