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Originally Posted by taplow 
Maybe I'm different to most others because with me another state of mind takes over. I remember being sober for nearly 8 years and then one day I just had this great idea to start drinking. For no reason, just go and buy a bottle of lager. Obviously that led to more and more. Straight back to square 1. But this time it's worse because there's this psychological imprint that's stamped itself all over it.
There's another mind that controls this. I'm riding on the elephant and the elephant is deciding the direction and I think that really I'm steering him when I'm not. I think I'm probably fooling myself when I make these resolutions to not drink. But then, what's the alternative? Oh no.
There's another mind that controls this. I'm riding on the elephant and the elephant is deciding the direction and I think that really I'm steering him when I'm not. I think I'm probably fooling myself when I make these resolutions to not drink. But then, what's the alternative? Oh no.
you're not different to us Taplow - and before your AV gets you all fired up and insists that you are - remember that you had 30 days.
You can be sober. You're halfway there...not you have to work on staying sober.
Like I said before the dream state auto pilot doesn't last forever.
Neither does the 'I'm hopeless, and doomed to die like this' state of the bender.
There are moments of clarity.
You keep posting here for a reason.
You can get back what you had in those 30 days and build on it.
You just need to step away from the bottle. You have no end of support here to help you do that.
Now what?
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Oregon Coast
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Originally Posted by taplow
This came from nowhere.
What's the point in making any kind of effort?
Couldn't it be that the fact that we make these attempts is the cause of the problem in the first place.
What's the point in making any kind of effort?
Couldn't it be that the fact that we make these attempts is the cause of the problem in the first place.
2) That's a good question. Have you asked yourself? Why does anyone stop doing something that is hurting them?
3) It is not a fact that your attempts at sobriety cause your drinking problem. That's a twisted wish. If there was any truth to it, you could justify drinking forever. But you already know it's baseless - that's why you're posting in a recovery forum.
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You know what everybody, I think I'm right in my hypothesis here. As I said in my posts on this thread, I think that the obsession that you must not drink lies at the heart, or maybe is the cause of having a compusion to drink. We've maybe got it the wrong way round where we think we can't stop because we don't try hard enough.
That doesn't mean of course that if you just do whatever you want and that you can come back from this and return to being a sober person. You can't unthink all that crap and are probably stuck forever really. I reckon it's too late once you're entangled in it but I think that that's the root of it.
I should say I speak as someone who's drank most of their life. But I knew from very early on that it was a wrong and stupid thing to do and always wanted to limit it. But making so much effort to stop really got me nowhere. The only time I ever stopped for a decent amount of time was after a long time in hospital when after being so ill with meningitis my thought processes and my obsessions with drinking had been interupted.
I think giving up drinking by effort is like hanging on to a roof ledge by your fingers. You can do it, for a while.
That doesn't mean of course that if you just do whatever you want and that you can come back from this and return to being a sober person. You can't unthink all that crap and are probably stuck forever really. I reckon it's too late once you're entangled in it but I think that that's the root of it.
I should say I speak as someone who's drank most of their life. But I knew from very early on that it was a wrong and stupid thing to do and always wanted to limit it. But making so much effort to stop really got me nowhere. The only time I ever stopped for a decent amount of time was after a long time in hospital when after being so ill with meningitis my thought processes and my obsessions with drinking had been interupted.
I think giving up drinking by effort is like hanging on to a roof ledge by your fingers. You can do it, for a while.
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I remember being sober for nearly 8 years and then one day I just had this great idea to start drinking. For no reason, just go and buy a bottle of lager.
yes. and then you follow the great idea of the moment.
because you have nothing in place to counter it with.
i'm reading your convoluted logic about the attempts being the cause of the problem...no. they do show, however, just where the problem sits, and so i agree with your second-to-last sentence.
doing it by effort alone, if by effort you mean something most of us here call 'willpower', then yes, that is hanging on to the edge and likely eventually having to let go.
which is exactly why so many here recommend taking other actions.
yes. and then you follow the great idea of the moment.
because you have nothing in place to counter it with.
i'm reading your convoluted logic about the attempts being the cause of the problem...no. they do show, however, just where the problem sits, and so i agree with your second-to-last sentence.
doing it by effort alone, if by effort you mean something most of us here call 'willpower', then yes, that is hanging on to the edge and likely eventually having to let go.
which is exactly why so many here recommend taking other actions.
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Originally Posted by fini
I remember being sober for nearly 8 years and then one day I just had this great idea to start drinking. For no reason, just go and buy a bottle of lager.
yes. and then you follow the great idea of the moment.
because you have nothing in place to counter it with.
yes. and then you follow the great idea of the moment.
because you have nothing in place to counter it with.
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taplow, you are right. When trying to free ones self from craving by craving for that freedom, one multiplies cravings. However, it is always what one does with those cravings that matters, they don't have to result in drinking but if there is always an association between cravings and alcohol then possibly drinking again is inevitable.
There is also the desperation factor. The moment when the cravings (impurities) have built up enough and there is so much mental anguish in trying to deal with them that surrender to a higher power seems the only way out and that moment of surrender can open the flood gates and a dissociated purge of the cravings occur. This is often the salvation of the alcoholic.
However, it is done in ignorance of the deepest factors of the creation of cravings and does not deal with the root causes of the creation of the impurities (cravings, aversions, ignorance) and therefore the formation of cravings continues and the struggle to deal with them must at some time be resumed.
in all, in my opinion a deep insight , taplow.
There is also the desperation factor. The moment when the cravings (impurities) have built up enough and there is so much mental anguish in trying to deal with them that surrender to a higher power seems the only way out and that moment of surrender can open the flood gates and a dissociated purge of the cravings occur. This is often the salvation of the alcoholic.
However, it is done in ignorance of the deepest factors of the creation of cravings and does not deal with the root causes of the creation of the impurities (cravings, aversions, ignorance) and therefore the formation of cravings continues and the struggle to deal with them must at some time be resumed.
in all, in my opinion a deep insight , taplow.
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Originally Posted by taplow
The thing is that it didn't immediately become this obsessional drinking behaviour. It took a year or two to creep back up to my usual level. I reckon that maybe that was assisted by my growing desire to cut back or stop entirely. You know what, I'm thinking that I might be onto something here.
Have you looked into AVRT? That seems to click the most with me. Have a look on the secular board here.
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I did actually reply and thought I'd posted. But I wake up the next morning and see that I haven't. I got quite drunk last night and I've already started again this morning. My "plan" is to stop tomorrow. Who am I kidding? Well me obviously.
Grympt I'm interested in the surrendering to higher power that may offer some solution to the problem. I believe this is an AA thing. I know I must seem really ignorant about these things for a problem drinker. I've never understood why the admission of being an alcoholic is such a liberating thing for example. I'm already drinking today - no work. So tomorrow has got to be day 1. Of course it is.
Thanks for your welcome Kcey. I really want to stop. So why not just stop? That's what I'd be think about someone like me if I was sober. When I'm drinking I'm behaving in such an irrational way. I recognise that crap but still carry on. How's common sense going to get me out of this maze of nonsense?
Behappy1, your name alone cheers me up. It's an order that I wish I could obey. You say you tried to drink like a normal person - haven't we all? Why aren't we normal people? Why are we different? I guess that seasoned drinkers who've been through the anti-drinking obstacle course will raise their eyes at this innocent novice here. I'm 55 and I've drank most of my life yet I've picked up nothing about any accepted ways of stopping - AA or detox or anything. I could be saying something about addiction that's considered heresy. You know, are there such people as addicts? Am I on a different track to the "normal" person or am I just degrees further along the same path?
I don't know anything about stopping drinking or why we drink. I think it's because I'm either in the process of drinking and don't care or I'm sober and don't think that I need any help. It's a merry go round of stupidity and misery. Behappy1 I'll follow you advice and take a look on the AVRT bit here.
I want to be happy, I really do. But first I'm going round the shop.
Brianx
Grympt I'm interested in the surrendering to higher power that may offer some solution to the problem. I believe this is an AA thing. I know I must seem really ignorant about these things for a problem drinker. I've never understood why the admission of being an alcoholic is such a liberating thing for example. I'm already drinking today - no work. So tomorrow has got to be day 1. Of course it is.
Thanks for your welcome Kcey. I really want to stop. So why not just stop? That's what I'd be think about someone like me if I was sober. When I'm drinking I'm behaving in such an irrational way. I recognise that crap but still carry on. How's common sense going to get me out of this maze of nonsense?
Behappy1, your name alone cheers me up. It's an order that I wish I could obey. You say you tried to drink like a normal person - haven't we all? Why aren't we normal people? Why are we different? I guess that seasoned drinkers who've been through the anti-drinking obstacle course will raise their eyes at this innocent novice here. I'm 55 and I've drank most of my life yet I've picked up nothing about any accepted ways of stopping - AA or detox or anything. I could be saying something about addiction that's considered heresy. You know, are there such people as addicts? Am I on a different track to the "normal" person or am I just degrees further along the same path?
I don't know anything about stopping drinking or why we drink. I think it's because I'm either in the process of drinking and don't care or I'm sober and don't think that I need any help. It's a merry go round of stupidity and misery. Behappy1 I'll follow you advice and take a look on the AVRT bit here.
I want to be happy, I really do. But first I'm going round the shop.
Brianx
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