The Spiral......
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,174
The Spiral......
......leads ever downwards. It really does.
An industrial solvent, alcohol dissolves everything. Friendships, relationships, marriage, the ivf child you tried to have is stillborn, had to be ivf because you'd rendered yourself sterile through years and years of alcohol. Turned out that the 'wife' only wanted the child in the belief you'd die early because of the drinking, and thus had a claim on the estate. A year later she's gone. Feeling guilty, responsible for a lost child.....try having that on your mind. Drinking really helps wash that one away.
Years on your own....the last of the friends drop away....the job goes as jobs do....and suddenly you really are on your own with just the chemical. It's effed over everything else in your life .....and now its the only, last thing that makes life tolerable.....even pleasurable for a moment.
So, by now alcohol is the only thing that can make a life bearable that has been made unbearable by alcohol. Its crazy.
An industrial solvent, alcohol dissolves everything. Friendships, relationships, marriage, the ivf child you tried to have is stillborn, had to be ivf because you'd rendered yourself sterile through years and years of alcohol. Turned out that the 'wife' only wanted the child in the belief you'd die early because of the drinking, and thus had a claim on the estate. A year later she's gone. Feeling guilty, responsible for a lost child.....try having that on your mind. Drinking really helps wash that one away.
Years on your own....the last of the friends drop away....the job goes as jobs do....and suddenly you really are on your own with just the chemical. It's effed over everything else in your life .....and now its the only, last thing that makes life tolerable.....even pleasurable for a moment.
So, by now alcohol is the only thing that can make a life bearable that has been made unbearable by alcohol. Its crazy.
saoutchik
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: London
Posts: 16,205
Hi canguy, I remember when I first joined back in early 2015 you would post regularly then and when I read them I thought "smart guy"
That doesn't always help as it means your AV is super skilled at rationalising drinking
I am sure that deep down you already know this but just so you can see someone else say it - you are not responsible for the death of your child - so you can't use that as a reason to drink.
Before I joined SR I would read of people achieving a month, 3months, 6 months and think "*****" this is so hard even to get to 7 days" but if you can get to the point where you tell yourself that as soon as i think about having a drink I am going to think about something else, I am going to do something else. It just makes it easier that grinding out hour after hour of cravings. I wish I was a less clumsy writer and could explain myself better.
The time it took for me to go from sober to blackout drunk was a couple of hours. 2 hours out of 24 thats not even much of a prop
I really think you can beat this canguy, and have a better life as well
That doesn't always help as it means your AV is super skilled at rationalising drinking
I am sure that deep down you already know this but just so you can see someone else say it - you are not responsible for the death of your child - so you can't use that as a reason to drink.
Before I joined SR I would read of people achieving a month, 3months, 6 months and think "*****" this is so hard even to get to 7 days" but if you can get to the point where you tell yourself that as soon as i think about having a drink I am going to think about something else, I am going to do something else. It just makes it easier that grinding out hour after hour of cravings. I wish I was a less clumsy writer and could explain myself better.
The time it took for me to go from sober to blackout drunk was a couple of hours. 2 hours out of 24 thats not even much of a prop
I really think you can beat this canguy, and have a better life as well
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,445
Hi Canguy 
There is an option B, but it takes faith. Stop drinking and rebuild your life.
The longer you put that off, the greater the chance of that horrible dying young prophecy coming true.
I've known you for a long time now.
You clearly have a lot to offer the world.
It's time to stop beating yourself up, canguy.
alcohol is the only thing that can make a life bearable that has been made unbearable by alcohol.
The longer you put that off, the greater the chance of that horrible dying young prophecy coming true.
I've known you for a long time now.
You clearly have a lot to offer the world.
It's time to stop beating yourself up, canguy.
Last edited by Dee74; 12-07-2016 at 07:14 PM.
AA Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 2,983
reminds me of step 1 in the 12X12
"Alcohol, now become the rapacious creditor, bleeds us of all self-sufficiency and all will to resist its demands. Once this stark fact is accepted, our bankruptcy as going human concerns is complete."
canguy i hope youre at the jumping off point
there is a solution
meetings
sponsor
steps
service
higher power
"Alcohol, now become the rapacious creditor, bleeds us of all self-sufficiency and all will to resist its demands. Once this stark fact is accepted, our bankruptcy as going human concerns is complete."
canguy i hope youre at the jumping off point
there is a solution
meetings
sponsor
steps
service
higher power
Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,966
I'm "new" to this but, have dedicated the next year of my life to fixing my F'ups! Been pounding out as many meetings as I can. Trying different types of meetings.. It's not a lost cause! Hell...If I can focus(ADD,Co-dependency, what do you got?) and do this I believe anyone,who wants to,can. That's what I've found..The want to. I hope you find it too,my friend. Take care!
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
Been there, without the stillborn child. I can't imagine what that's like. And then the mother leaving for another payday. But there were other things that beat me down. All because I decided to start drinking again. I didn't care either. Nothing mattered except for the short time that I was in a special kind of oblivion, even though it was no longer every day, or very much of the time. It was all about the booze. And disappearing.
I don't know how to tell you how to give a shite. I lost the ability (maybe the courage?) to care when I was drinking. I only stopped because I couldn't function anymore. Came in from the cold against my will. I hated it for months. I saturated myself with recovery stuff, but I was kicking and screaming on the inside. I just couldn't afford to drink anymore, not without living on the streets and begging for forgiveness in the form of kindness from strangers.
At times, I think what it was like for me was, "I've got nothing else to lose. Might as well see what happens without the booze." At some point I started caring again. Maybe it was the challenge of coming back from so much self-imposed abuse and destruction. Something to do with my time. Caring is a risk. And a commitment. When you care about someone or something, now you've got something to lose. In the end, we lose everything, but never according to our schedules or under our conditions.
It hurts to care. Every parent who worries about their children knows this. Some people are content to just predict the worst, as some illusory version of controlling it, and by so doing actually inviting it. And then greet its arrival with a sense of relief. "At least that's over with." Caring is a commitment to experience loss, often sooner rather than later. It's a commitment to the increased likelihood of heartbreak. It's putting your sanity on the line when, somewhere very deep inside, that part of you that doesn't want to experience death by a thousand emotions is always waiting for the other shoe to drop. Why do you think so many of us avoid it?
What I know is that I only got from there to here after I stopped drinking. I'm not clever enough to describe some invisible mechanism or logical process that directs recovery, but I do know that life means again. And getting there only seems like the biggest risk we'll ever take. It has to be that way or it doesn't count. There are some very good explanations and some very persuasive reasons behind the reality that so many people are content to stand perfectly still. And those of us who find ourselves doing that know exactly what they are.
Just because you may not now be somebody's hero, it doesn't mean you can't do something heroic.
I don't know how to tell you how to give a shite. I lost the ability (maybe the courage?) to care when I was drinking. I only stopped because I couldn't function anymore. Came in from the cold against my will. I hated it for months. I saturated myself with recovery stuff, but I was kicking and screaming on the inside. I just couldn't afford to drink anymore, not without living on the streets and begging for forgiveness in the form of kindness from strangers.
At times, I think what it was like for me was, "I've got nothing else to lose. Might as well see what happens without the booze." At some point I started caring again. Maybe it was the challenge of coming back from so much self-imposed abuse and destruction. Something to do with my time. Caring is a risk. And a commitment. When you care about someone or something, now you've got something to lose. In the end, we lose everything, but never according to our schedules or under our conditions.
It hurts to care. Every parent who worries about their children knows this. Some people are content to just predict the worst, as some illusory version of controlling it, and by so doing actually inviting it. And then greet its arrival with a sense of relief. "At least that's over with." Caring is a commitment to experience loss, often sooner rather than later. It's a commitment to the increased likelihood of heartbreak. It's putting your sanity on the line when, somewhere very deep inside, that part of you that doesn't want to experience death by a thousand emotions is always waiting for the other shoe to drop. Why do you think so many of us avoid it?
What I know is that I only got from there to here after I stopped drinking. I'm not clever enough to describe some invisible mechanism or logical process that directs recovery, but I do know that life means again. And getting there only seems like the biggest risk we'll ever take. It has to be that way or it doesn't count. There are some very good explanations and some very persuasive reasons behind the reality that so many people are content to stand perfectly still. And those of us who find ourselves doing that know exactly what they are.
Just because you may not now be somebody's hero, it doesn't mean you can't do something heroic.
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,174
It's a hard thing to talk about.....here, anonymously even.
Sure, there are online 'communities' of people who've been thro the same thing.....but they are all for women and the dominant narrative is ".....my hubby was so great and now we our angel has a little sibling"
For the men it's not like that. You don't exist. I wrote an account of my experience and posted it on a leading stillbirth forum. It was deleted inside 24 hours. Don't wanna hear that sh*t. There's a group who collect details and send you a card every year on the 'birthday'.
With the mother's name spelt wrong.
X partners parents all Jesus people....and so appalled. Apparently 'god' punishes unsuitable wannabe parents by killing their babies. Okay.....got it. Not a 'god' I want anything to do with.
You discover a whole dark silent new world. I've was stunned by the number of people who had been touched by this, they quietly tell you of theirs, their family, relatives, friends. I've stood in the supermarket queue and the friendly checkout girl wanting to know if 'she's had it yet?' Yeah...she has. But it didn't work out. You can feel the eyes of the rest of queue following you out the door.
1700 babies last year in this country. If it were anything to do with an approved minority there would be a special day, a twisted ribbon in the right colour to wear on your sleeve. A politician announcing a 'taskforce' . But there is nothing.
The circus moves on really quickly....nobody wants to know. The medical people check you carefully that there's no suggestion of liability and that's it. You're just bad news. Move on.
We drank a lot of vodka. I had to compose some words for a tiny funeral. The coffin looked too small and we had to sit and look at it and wait and wait for the out of town family to arrive. I kept thinking about signing the form to permit an autopsy. I could have walked outside and vomited.
But I never want to use this as an excuse for drinking......but it was the turning point in everything. Nothing was ever going to be same again.
I've ended up utterly alone....I look around these rooms I still live in. To think that there was a waiting nursery, a cat, a wife, here once....just seems odd now.
Sure, there are online 'communities' of people who've been thro the same thing.....but they are all for women and the dominant narrative is ".....my hubby was so great and now we our angel has a little sibling"
For the men it's not like that. You don't exist. I wrote an account of my experience and posted it on a leading stillbirth forum. It was deleted inside 24 hours. Don't wanna hear that sh*t. There's a group who collect details and send you a card every year on the 'birthday'.
With the mother's name spelt wrong.
X partners parents all Jesus people....and so appalled. Apparently 'god' punishes unsuitable wannabe parents by killing their babies. Okay.....got it. Not a 'god' I want anything to do with.
You discover a whole dark silent new world. I've was stunned by the number of people who had been touched by this, they quietly tell you of theirs, their family, relatives, friends. I've stood in the supermarket queue and the friendly checkout girl wanting to know if 'she's had it yet?' Yeah...she has. But it didn't work out. You can feel the eyes of the rest of queue following you out the door.
1700 babies last year in this country. If it were anything to do with an approved minority there would be a special day, a twisted ribbon in the right colour to wear on your sleeve. A politician announcing a 'taskforce' . But there is nothing.
The circus moves on really quickly....nobody wants to know. The medical people check you carefully that there's no suggestion of liability and that's it. You're just bad news. Move on.
We drank a lot of vodka. I had to compose some words for a tiny funeral. The coffin looked too small and we had to sit and look at it and wait and wait for the out of town family to arrive. I kept thinking about signing the form to permit an autopsy. I could have walked outside and vomited.
But I never want to use this as an excuse for drinking......but it was the turning point in everything. Nothing was ever going to be same again.
I've ended up utterly alone....I look around these rooms I still live in. To think that there was a waiting nursery, a cat, a wife, here once....just seems odd now.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 23
The cool thing about spirals is that they share a lot of behaviors with a pendelum.
A pendelum will accelerate in one direction, cross over the centerline and begin to slow down.
Then, it will begin accelerating in the other direction and repeat the process.
If you add energy to each 'good swing', you'll eventually break free of the nasty cycle and soar ever towards your goals.
A bit abstract, but I think that it makes sense.
A pendelum will accelerate in one direction, cross over the centerline and begin to slow down.
Then, it will begin accelerating in the other direction and repeat the process.
If you add energy to each 'good swing', you'll eventually break free of the nasty cycle and soar ever towards your goals.
A bit abstract, but I think that it makes sense.
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,174
Oh, I've been to 'counselling' Dee.
It was rubbish. Apparently you have to believe that everything you think is just a little cloud that will pass across your sky. We had to shut our eyes and think of clouds. I sneaked a peek and the therapist was actually doing it.....
It was rubbish. Apparently you have to believe that everything you think is just a little cloud that will pass across your sky. We had to shut our eyes and think of clouds. I sneaked a peek and the therapist was actually doing it.....
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: California
Posts: 13,044
Hi Canguy,
I'm so sorry for the loss of your child, I know there are no words to take away the pain of that loss.
I'm hoping the spiral has stopped for you, and you can begin to find some peace as you move forward. You mentioned counseling, have you tried different types of therapy to find one that works for you?
You mentioned how difficult it is to live in the home where you have suffered so much loss, is moving an option? If not, can you have a friend or family member help you paint the room that was to be the nursery?
Do you have any pets? You mentioned a cat. If not, maybe adopting a cat would be therapeutic for you.
I hope you will continue to stick around SR, and that you are able to find the supports needed to help you be sober, and to heal some of the pain you are feeling.
❤️ Delilah
I'm so sorry for the loss of your child, I know there are no words to take away the pain of that loss.
I'm hoping the spiral has stopped for you, and you can begin to find some peace as you move forward. You mentioned counseling, have you tried different types of therapy to find one that works for you?
You mentioned how difficult it is to live in the home where you have suffered so much loss, is moving an option? If not, can you have a friend or family member help you paint the room that was to be the nursery?
Do you have any pets? You mentioned a cat. If not, maybe adopting a cat would be therapeutic for you.
I hope you will continue to stick around SR, and that you are able to find the supports needed to help you be sober, and to heal some of the pain you are feeling.
❤️ Delilah
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,445
I appreciate that some practitioners are pretty ordinary, but not all therapy is the same tho, and neither are all therapists.
I think the really important thing to accept is that drinking just not working for you.
You're in dire need of alternative strategies.
D
I think the really important thing to accept is that drinking just not working for you.
You're in dire need of alternative strategies.
D
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 563
Hi Canguy, I'm so sorry to hear about your loss. I can't imagine how painful that is. I'm glad you're here and sharing.
To echo some of the advice here, I hope you are able to give therapy a try again. There are lots of different kinds of therapists and counselors, and sometimes you have to try a few before you find one that doesn't just seem full of it. You have suffered a major loss, and you should treat it appropriately so that you can heal.
And quitting drinking...I hope you can do this too. SR is here for you. It was really great to see your name come up on the tread but I'm so sorry to hear what you've gone through. You are worth it, Canguy. Keep coming back.
All the best,
Kim
To echo some of the advice here, I hope you are able to give therapy a try again. There are lots of different kinds of therapists and counselors, and sometimes you have to try a few before you find one that doesn't just seem full of it. You have suffered a major loss, and you should treat it appropriately so that you can heal.
And quitting drinking...I hope you can do this too. SR is here for you. It was really great to see your name come up on the tread but I'm so sorry to hear what you've gone through. You are worth it, Canguy. Keep coming back.
All the best,
Kim
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
